Even with all this evidence, no researcher wants to even consider vaccines as a cause. So much for open-minded scientific research. Given the response on this thread it is understandable.There's a thing on the internet, it's called a link. Apparently you only know how to copy and paste web addresses. Both your ability to read and your understanding of links seems impaired. In a "link" you "linked", mixed in with the black and white text is some orange text. Links are usually a different color to get your attention. Unfortunately we have not yet developed the technology for mechanical arms to reach out grab you by the neck and get you to see what's there in front of you. Here it is again. ] I'm sure these researchers would be very upset if they heard you were calling them "no one" and their research wasn't looking into the very thing you say they aren't. Search above for my explanation of the double fallacy of "not open-minded".
11 days APV. A pretty good run. I know more about gelatin than I did last month. Is there anything left that scientists are already addressing that you want to complain about?
Can’t wait for another link to scientists responding to your concerns so you can complain about how scientists are not responding to your concerns.
Even with all this evidence, no researcher wants to even consider vaccines as a cause. So much for open-minded scientific research. Given the response on this thread it is understandable.There's a thing on the internet, it's called a link. Apparently you only know how to copy and paste web addresses. Both your ability to read and your understanding of links seems impaired. In a "link" you "linked", mixed in with the black and white text is some orange text. Links are usually a different color to get your attention. Unfortunately we have not yet developed the technology for mechanical arms to reach out grab you by the neck and get you to see what's there in front of you. Here it is again. ] I'm sure these researchers would be very upset if they heard you were calling them "no one" and their research wasn't looking into the very thing you say they aren't. Search above for my explanation of the double fallacy of "not open-minded". Sorry, there are two separate items you need to consider. 1. A vaccine can cause a healthy person to become allergic to a protein present in the vaccine, a few weeks after receiving the vaccination (sensitization, no symptoms immediately following the vaccination) 2. A person who is already allergic to say gelatin, when vaccinated with a vaccine containing gelatin, can suffer an immediate life-threatening allergic reaction (elicitation). You will find a lot about item (2). I am talking about research on item (1). I believe I explained sensitization/elicitation in my response to macgyver and may be you missed it. Item (1) needs very little protein (thus occurs often) and the cause is easily missed because there are no immediate symptoms. Item (2) needs a lot of protein (thus rare) and has dramatic and immediate consequences leaving little doubt about the cause. Hope that helps.
I wonder if vaccine companies could create a limited supply of vaccines without whatever the crazies are carrying on about and charge them accordingly? Say an extra $200 for the specially formulated vaccine to cover expenses. Would that shut them up? Would they pay for it? It might be worth trying it to see how they would react. LoisThank you for bringing that up. The whole point of my original post was that flu vaccines are already different and some are better than others. https://mttmblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/flusum2014.pdf My hope was the information I provided would be useful for anyone trying to choose a flu vaccine. I already paid $40 for the vaccination of my choice that was not available for free from my HMO. So, yes I was crazy enough to pay $40 for a vaccine that is mercury-free, gelatin-free, latex-free, insect protein-free, Polysorbate-free and contains lower amounts of ovalbumin, and Triton-X100.
11 days APV. A pretty good run. I know more about gelatin than I did last month. Is there anything left that scientists are already addressing that you want to complain about? Can't wait for another link to scientists responding to your concerns so you can complain about how scientists are not responding to your concerns.If you noticed, Dr. Matzinger was suggesting that the group have a discussion on the matter. There was no response at all on that list. If you also noticed, Dr. Matzinger did not write that there are two dozen groups already looking into the matter. She was suggesting that perhaps some researchers should START looking into it. And this is the research status of a problem that has been known for over a hundred years ...
Sorry, there are two separate items you need to consider. 1. A vaccine can cause a healthy person to become allergic to a protein present in the vaccine, a few weeks after receiving the vaccination (sensitization, no symptoms immediately following the vaccination)When you have an allergic reaction, generally you are reacting to a protein. There is nothing special about the proteins in vaccines to make you more likely to react to them as opposed to...say peanut or milk proteins or any other proteins. Heck you can even have a histamine reaction to heat and cold. I knew someone who was allergic to cold. I have seen her break out in cold weather and after running cold water on her hands. I have allergic reactions to sunburn, and it (the reaction) was quite severe. Both histamine reactions without proteins. Your wife can become allergic to the protein in your semen. You can pretty much be allergic to nearly anything. There is absolutely nothing more special about the proteins used in vaccines to make you more likely to react to them.
11 days APV. A pretty good run. I know more about gelatin than I did last month. Is there anything left that scientists are already addressing that you want to complain about? Can't wait for another link to scientists responding to your concerns so you can complain about how scientists are not responding to your concerns.If you noticed, Dr. Matzinger was suggesting that the group have a discussion on the matter. There was no response at all on that list. If you also noticed, Dr. Matzinger did not write that there are two dozen groups already looking into the matter. She was suggesting that perhaps some researchers should START looking into it. And this is the research status of a problem that has been known for over a hundred years ... So what would satisfy you? The original "vaccine" was to wipe the actual disease directly onto children. Not exactly safe. But people at the time saw what the disease was and knew people who died from it. Today, we are so isolated from that horror, and we demand so much from the miracle workers who keep us fat dumb and happy, that a 1 in 2 million risk of a gelatin reaction is considered a sign of laziness or worse. You have cited numerous studies on the problems you raise. How many would be enough? My guess is, you won't satisfy until science agrees with the conclusion you have already made.
Sorry, there are two separate items you need to consider. 1. A vaccine can cause a healthy person to become allergic to a protein present in the vaccine, a few weeks after receiving the vaccination (sensitization, no symptoms immediately following the vaccination)When you have an allergic reaction, generally you are reacting to a protein. There is nothing special about the proteins in vaccines to make you more likely to react to them as opposed to...say peanut or milk proteins or any other proteins. Heck you can even have a histamine reaction to heat and cold. I knew someone who was allergic to cold. I have seen her break out in cold weather and after running cold water on her hands. I have allergic reactions to sunburn, and it (the reaction) was quite severe. Both histamine reactions without proteins. Your wife can become allergic to the protein in your semen. You can pretty much be allergic to nearly anything. There is absolutely nothing more special about the proteins used in vaccines to make you more likely to react to them. That said, what is the difference between an egg allergy and a peanut allergy? I have a mild allergy to eggs (in that I can eat one egg and not have a reaction, but two breaks me out badly) and cannot take the flu vaccine, as well as the pneumonia one too (so I hear), because the vaccine is made in eggs, yet I can eat as many peanuts as I want. I think the same is true of one of my sons' friends who is allergic to peanuts- he can eat eggs with no problems, but peanuts give him respiratory problems.
According to this study done by Dartmouth College, there is no way to convince APV or people like him. In fact, we’re probably just making him MORE convinced about his opinion.
Sorry, there are two separate items you need to consider. 1. A vaccine can cause a healthy person to become allergic to a protein present in the vaccine, a few weeks after receiving the vaccination (sensitization, no symptoms immediately following the vaccination)When you have an allergic reaction, generally you are reacting to a protein. There is nothing special about the proteins in vaccines to make you more likely to react to them as opposed to...say peanut or milk proteins or any other proteins. Heck you can even have a histamine reaction to heat and cold. I knew someone who was allergic to cold. I have seen her break out in cold weather and after running cold water on her hands. I have allergic reactions to sunburn, and it (the reaction) was quite severe. Both histamine reactions without proteins. Your wife can become allergic to the protein in your semen. You can pretty much be allergic to nearly anything. There is absolutely nothing more special about the proteins used in vaccines to make you more likely to react to them. That said, what is the difference between an egg allergy and a peanut allergy? I have a mild allergy to eggs (in that I can eat one egg and not have a reaction, but two breaks me out badly) and cannot take the flu vaccine, as well as the pneumonia one too (so I hear), because the vaccine is made in eggs, yet I can eat as many peanuts as I want. I think the same is true of one of my sons' friends who is allergic to peanuts- he can eat eggs with no problems, but peanuts give him respiratory problems. If you look at the vaccine schedule, a vaccine like HepB is a course of three shots. The reason is the first shot gives full protection to only say ~50% of the patients. The second shot increases protection to say ~75%. The third shot almost protects everyone who received the shots. So it is matter of probability. Likewise, if you received a small amount of egg protein in the vaccine, you could have developed mild egg allergy. If you get more vaccine shots containing egg, your allergy could get worse. Same is true for peanuts. Many vaccines contain Polysorbate 80 which includes vegetable oils (may include peanuts, tree nuts, sesame oil etc.). Not everyone who gets a shot is going to develop an allergy. C-section births are a risk factor and increase the probability of developing allergies when vaccinated. My son cannot eat eggs at all. But he can get the flu shot. We usually wait 30 min. at the allergy clinic in case he develops a reaction. So, you may be able to receive the flu shot at an allergy clinic that has a "crash cart" to take care of you if you develop a reaction. However, if you chose to get a vaccine, please check if you can find one with the least amount of egg protein so that there is less probability that your allergies will get worse. https://mttmblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/flusum2014.pdf That was the whole point of my original post. The pneumococcal vaccine (package insert below) does not seem to have egg/ovalbumin. You can confirm with your doctor. http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM257088.pdf
11 days APV. A pretty good run. I know more about gelatin than I did last month. Is there anything left that scientists are already addressing that you want to complain about? Can't wait for another link to scientists responding to your concerns so you can complain about how scientists are not responding to your concerns.If you noticed, Dr. Matzinger was suggesting that the group have a discussion on the matter. There was no response at all on that list. If you also noticed, Dr. Matzinger did not write that there are two dozen groups already looking into the matter. She was suggesting that perhaps some researchers should START looking into it. And this is the research status of a problem that has been known for over a hundred years ... So what would satisfy you? The original "vaccine" was to wipe the actual disease directly onto children. Not exactly safe. But people at the time saw what the disease was and knew people who died from it. Today, we are so isolated from that horror, and we demand so much from the miracle workers who keep us fat dumb and happy, that a 1 in 2 million risk of a gelatin reaction is considered a sign of laziness or worse. You have cited numerous studies on the problems you raise. How many would be enough? My guess is, you won't satisfy until science agrees with the conclusion you have already made. As I already pointed out, people getting an immediate reaction to a vaccine is not the big problem. That may be 1 in a million. Healthy, non-allergic people silently developing food allergies weeks after a vaccination is the huge problem. There are 15 million people living with life-threatening food allergies. http://www.foodallergy.org/ They cannot eat every foods without risking their lives. I believe I have presented evidence showing that vaccines are a big contributor to this huge problem.
Sorry, there are two separate items you need to consider. 1. A vaccine can cause a healthy person to become allergic to a protein present in the vaccine, a few weeks after receiving the vaccination (sensitization, no symptoms immediately following the vaccination)When you have an allergic reaction, generally you are reacting to a protein. There is nothing special about the proteins in vaccines to make you more likely to react to them as opposed to...say peanut or milk proteins or any other proteins. Heck you can even have a histamine reaction to heat and cold. I knew someone who was allergic to cold. I have seen her break out in cold weather and after running cold water on her hands. I have allergic reactions to sunburn, and it (the reaction) was quite severe. Both histamine reactions without proteins. Your wife can become allergic to the protein in your semen. You can pretty much be allergic to nearly anything. There is absolutely nothing more special about the proteins used in vaccines to make you more likely to react to them. There are various types of allergies. I am referring to Type I reactions (ie, immediate hypersensitivity reactions) involve immunoglobulin E (IgE)–mediated release of histamine and other mediators from mast cells and basophils. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/136217-overview "When you have an allergic reaction, generally you are reacting to a protein. There is nothing special about the proteins in vaccines to make you more likely to react to them as opposed to...say peanut or milk proteins or any other proteins." You are absolutely right. But please understand that injecting proteins and thus exposing the proteins to the blood stream is the cause of Type I sensitization. How does a healthy non-allergic person develop an allergy? I am saying the evidence is pointing to proteins in vaccines as a cause. How do they make healthy non-allergic mouse develop food allergies for experiments? They inject food proteins in to the mice such that the proteins are exposed to the bloodstream. If a healthy non-allergic person is injected with peanut amd milk protein (both of which can be present in vaccines), they can develop allergies to peanut and milk. They will have NO reaction this time (sensitization). A few weeks later, they cannot eat peanut or milk. They may also not be able to receive that same vaccine again because they will develop an immediate reaction (elicitation). A healthy non-allergic person eating peanuts, eggs does not cause them to develop an allergy (no sensitization). The reason is stomach acid denatures the proteins. The resulting amino acids absorbed into the blood are harmless. If the healthy non-allergic person eating peanuts, eggs took proton pump inhibitors (PPI) to reduce their stomach acid, the proteins are not denatured. The proteins get absorbed into the blood and the person develops an allergy (sensitization). Hope that helps.
On the matter of “open-minded scientific research” when it comes to vaccines, you don’t have to believe me.
Will you believe Dr. Tom Jefferson, Dr. Jackson, Dr. Majumdar or Dr. Simonsen?
I believe I have presented evidence showing that vaccines are a big contributor to this huge problem.Well you didn't. You're smart, so you've convinced yourself. That's a danger of being smart. You know you are aware of more facts than others. You may even be better at formulating a logical argument. You could convince a lot of average people that you are right. None of that makes you right. I can only tell that you are resistant to hearing the opinions of others, and I've pointed out a couple logical fallacies, to which you did not respond. It's fascinating to me to watch someone do that, to keep ignoring input selectively. So, keep going, I'll be here with my popcorn.
On the matter of "open-minded scientific research" when it comes to vaccines, you don't have to believe me. Will you believe Dr. Tom Jefferson, Dr. Jackson, Dr. Majumdar or Dr. Simonsen? http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/11/does-the-vaccine-matter/307723/?single_page=true"open-minded" means I am open to hearing new, got that? new, information. So linking another article that agrees with you does mean anything, unless it is new information. That you only link things that show someone questioning the current consensus is more of an indicator that you are closed minded, that is, you can't accept that current producers of vaccines are doing the best they can to create vaccines, balancing costs and risks. My dis-belief in you does not make me closed-minded, that's the point I was making.
APV, because I am allergic to eggs, I cannot get the flu shot. A number of doctors, nurses, and other health care people have said that. They won’t give it to me because of my egg allergy nor can I get the pneumonia shot. I also did not develop my egg allergy from vaccines though. I’m surprised your son can take it. However,and nothing personal, I would like to get the second opinion from asanta concerning my question above.
On the matter of "open-minded scientific research" when it comes to vaccines, you don't have to believe me. Will you believe Dr. Tom Jefferson, Dr. Jackson, Dr. Majumdar or Dr. Simonsen? http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/11/does-the-vaccine-matter/307723/?single_page=true"open-minded" means I am open to hearing new, got that? new, information. So linking another article that agrees with you does mean anything, unless it is new information. That you only link things that show someone questioning the current consensus is more of an indicator that you are closed minded, that is, you can't accept that current producers of vaccines are doing the best they can to create vaccines, balancing costs and risks. My dis-belief in you does not make me closed-minded, that's the point I was making. The FDA wrote to me: “There is not, as you describe it, an FDA determined safe amount of a potentially allergenic ingredient contained in a vaccine. The FDA reviews vaccine composition in its entirety to ensure the safety and efficacy of the vaccine." Sanofi Pasteur wrote to me: “There is no specification for residual egg protein (expressed as ovalbumin) for influenza vaccines in the United States, nor is testing of the final product required for ovalbumin content." So they don't know the costs or the risks. They waved a magic wand and declared that the benefits outweighed the risks. I guess it is their version of the "scientific method". That article was not about me or you being open or closed minded. It was to show that the medical community as a whole is closed minded and anyone questioning the "prevailing view" is a pariah. Anyhow, it is clear that you and I operate on different wavelengths. Unless some third member can manage to bridge our wavelength gap, we cannot make progress ...
I believe I have presented evidence showing that vaccines are a big contributor to this huge problem.Well you didn't. You're smart, so you've convinced yourself. That's a danger of being smart. You know you are aware of more facts than others. You may even be better at formulating a logical argument. You could convince a lot of average people that you are right. None of that makes you right. I can only tell that you are resistant to hearing the opinions of others, and I've pointed out a couple logical fallacies, to which you did not respond. It's fascinating to me to watch someone do that, to keep ignoring input selectively. So, keep going, I'll be here with my popcorn. I have provided numerous references to back up my opinion and you don't even want to consider the possibility that I *may* be right. You have provided lots of opinion but zero references and you expect me to accept your opinion as the truth?
APV, because I am allergic to eggs, I cannot get the flu shot. A number of doctors, nurses, and other health care people have said that. They won't give it to me because of my egg allergy nor can I get the pneumonia shot. I also did not develop my egg allergy from vaccines though. I'm surprised your son can take it. However,and nothing personal, I would like to get the second opinion from asanta concerning my question above.If I may ask, what do you think caused your allergy?
and you expect me to accept your opinion as the truth?No, I expect you to have more respect for the scientific consensus, the very opinions that you sometimes link to. Your links don't support your opinion so saying that you provide them doesn't really mean much.