Catholic Church once again shows its spinelessness

The Catholic Church has yet again shown its spinelessness and lack of morality. Their tax exemption should be rescinded immediately. Of course it won’t be. I’d be ashamed to send my kids to that school, though I wouldn’t have needed an incident like this to keep them out of a Catholic school in the first place. Is it religious indoctrination that has fried their brains and their hearts?
The Catholic Church has a history of hiding and moving around abusive preists. But if you are an employee teacher who has been the victim of abuse, they fire you and expell your kids from their school. Will they ever learn?
http://www.examiner.com/article/san-diego-teacher-fired-following-domestic-violence-incident
… American Humanist Association

Well, in the very first sentence of the article, I saw the word “ex-husband.” By Catholic definition, shouldn’t that disqualify her from teaching…divorce and all :slight_smile:

This is just a business being a business, the catholic doctrine has nothing to do with it. It is definitely spineless behavior towards Charlesworth, though.
Maybe in this case, an armed teacher would not be a bad idea.

Well, in the very first sentence of the article, I saw the word "ex-husband." By Catholic definition, shouldn't that disqualify her from teaching...divorce and all :)
No. Since the Catholic Church doesn't recognize divorce, in its eyes they are still married. Only if she were to marry again would the church have an issue. Of course, this doesn't take into accound normal church blockheadedness. Lois

They’re just trying to be Christlike. Like remember how the Bible tells us Jesus came down from the mountain, and there were large crowds of people. And then a guy with leprosy kneels in front of Jesus and asks to be healed. So Jesus pushes the man away and yells to the crowd “get away, get away, this guy will infect you all”. And then Jesus runs away too. Remember th… wait, I think I got the tale wrong??? :wink:

The Catholic Church has yet again shown its spinelessness and lack of morality. Their tax exemption should be rescinded immediately. Of course it won't be. I'd be ashamed to send my kids to that school, though I wouldn't have needed an incident like this to keep them out of a Catholic school in the first place. Is it religious indoctrination that has fried their brains and their hearts? The Catholic Church has a history of hiding and moving around abusive preists. But if you are an employee teacher who has been the victim of abuse, they fire you and expell your kids from their school. Will they ever learn? http://www.examiner.com/article/san-diego-teacher-fired-following-domestic-violence-incident ... American Humanist Association
Lois, If the school administrators truly believed the abusive ex might come after this woman at the school, and thereby endanger others at the school, what should they have done to deal with this rather than firing her? It seems grossly unfair to this lady, but is there a better alternative for the school administrators? I hope that there is, but one does not immediately occur to me.
The Catholic Church has yet again shown its spinelessness and lack of morality. Their tax exemption should be rescinded immediately. Of course it won't be. I'd be ashamed to send my kids to that school, though I wouldn't have needed an incident like this to keep them out of a Catholic school in the first place. Is it religious indoctrination that has fried their brains and their hearts? The Catholic Church has a history of hiding and moving around abusive preists. But if you are an employee teacher who has been the victim of abuse, they fire you and expell your kids from their school. Will they ever learn? http://www.examiner.com/article/san-diego-teacher-fired-following-domestic-violence-incident ... American Humanist Association
Lois, If the school administrators truly believed the abusive ex might come after this woman at the school, and thereby endanger others at the school, what should they have done to deal with this rather than firing her? It seems grossly unfair to this lady, but is there a better alternative for the school administrators? I hope that there is, but one does not immediately occur to me. They could beef up their security and be sure to call the police if he's seen on the premises, the same as any sane school administration would do. They could hire an amed guard or, they could arm teachers, which is what certain conservatives think is the answer to school violence. They wouldn't take it out on the victim and act immorally. If wose came to worse they could put her on paid leave until the danger was past. Suppose it was any employer whose employee was under attack. Should employers just fire the employee? Firing the victim is the only thing they can think of to protect other employees, customers or students? They show themselves to be completely spineless and immoral. Of course when it comes to the Catholic Church, we all knew that already. They'll move around and hide known child abusers but they'll fire a teacher of 16 years who is being stalked! Great thinking.

In my quick read of the article, I am not seeing what the grounds for terminatiion were. She did the right thing by notifying the administration of the potential issue, which not all teachers or employees in general would do. In addition, was there a description of the nature of his domestic violence? I think it is a far reach to assert that an abusive spouse is going to turn into a potential hazard to a school and the children in the school. Also, legally, can you fire someone for an event that never really happened because I didn’t read what actually occured at the school. Just because someone is angry, doesn’t mean they are a threat of catastrophic nature…what if a parent comes in angry, will the administration expel the student by proxy of anger?

Perhaps a little off-topic, but interesting nonetheless.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22869399
'What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive".

The Catholic Church has yet again shown its spinelessness and lack of morality. Their tax exemption should be rescinded immediately. Of course it won't be. I'd be ashamed to send my kids to that school, though I wouldn't have needed an incident like this to keep them out of a Catholic school in the first place. Is it religious indoctrination that has fried their brains and their hearts? The Catholic Church has a history of hiding and moving around abusive preists. But if you are an employee teacher who has been the victim of abuse, they fire you and expell your kids from their school. Will they ever learn? http://www.examiner.com/article/san-diego-teacher-fired-following-domestic-violence-incident ... American Humanist Association
Lois, If the school administrators truly believed the abusive ex might come after this woman at the school, and thereby endanger others at the school, what should they have done to deal with this rather than firing her? It seems grossly unfair to this lady, but is there a better alternative for the school administrators? I hope that there is, but one does not immediately occur to me. They could beef up their security and be sure to call the police if he's seen on the premises, the same as any sane school administration would do. They could hire an amed guard or, they could arm teachers, which is what certain conservatives think is the answer to school violence. They wouldn't take it out on the victim and act immorally. If wose came to worse they could put her on paid leave until the danger was past... Those are good points. I suppose that the school administrators were looking for the most immediate and least costly way to address the problem. Perhaps, she could bring a suit that could convince the school administrators that the way they dealt with this was not their least expensive option.
Well, in the very first sentence of the article, I saw the word "ex-husband." By Catholic definition, shouldn't that disqualify her from teaching...divorce and all :)
No. Since the Catholic Church doesn't recognize divorce, in its eyes they are still married. Only if she were to marry again would the church have an issue. Of course, this doesn't take into accound normal church blockheadedness. Lois Not quite, Lois. For example, after their divorce, the first husband of my second wife wanted to marry a Catholic woman, so they were faced with that problem. He talked to the priest who suggested a solution. He donate $500 and request that his first marriage be annulled. This required that he fill out a form and bring it to my wife for her to also sign, agreeing to the annulment. She did so although we both got a kick out of him asking for that and the Catholic church accepting it. My wife commented that she must have had five virgin births since they had had that many children during their marriage.. :lol: Occam
Well, in the very first sentence of the article, I saw the word "ex-husband." By Catholic definition, shouldn't that disqualify her from teaching...divorce and all :)
No. Since the Catholic Church doesn't recognize divorce, in its eyes they are still married. Only if she were to marry again would the church have an issue. Of course, this doesn't take into accound normal church blockheadedness. Lois Not quite, Lois. For example, after their divorce, the first husband of my second wife wanted to marry a Catholic woman, so they were faced with that problem. He talked to the priest who suggested a solution. He donate $500 and request that his first marriage be annulled. This required that he fill out a form and bring it to my wife for her to also sign, agreeing to the annulment. She did so although we both got a kick out of him asking for that and the Catholic church accepting it. My wife commented that she must have had five virgin births since they had had that many children during their marriage.. :lol: Occam Yes, I know. Money talks and marriages can be made to go away. A family member of mine tried to get his Catholic marriage annulled and was refused. The marriage was considered valid. I wonder if he'd had enough money if he could have had it annulled, too. Apparently there are is only one qualification for annulment: enough money to buy one. In the case of the teacher, however, the poster wondered if she would be disqualified from teaching for being divorced. She wouldn't be even without an annulment. but she'll never be able to get an annulment without substantial amounts of cash. That, unfortunately, is how it works in the Catholic Church. The rich get annulments, the poor are considered married, no matter what. Lois
The Catholic Church has yet again shown its spinelessness and lack of morality. Their tax exemption should be rescinded immediately. Of course it won't be. I'd be ashamed to send my kids to that school, though I wouldn't have needed an incident like this to keep them out of a Catholic school in the first place. Is it religious indoctrination that has fried their brains and their hearts? The Catholic Church has a history of hiding and moving around abusive preists. But if you are an employee teacher who has been the victim of abuse, they fire you and expell your kids from their school. Will they ever learn? http://www.examiner.com/article/san-diego-teacher-fired-following-domestic-violence-incident ... American Humanist Association
Lois, If the school administrators truly believed the abusive ex might come after this woman at the school, and thereby endanger others at the school, what should they have done to deal with this rather than firing her? It seems grossly unfair to this lady, but is there a better alternative for the school administrators? I hope that there is, but one does not immediately occur to me. They could beef up their security and be sure to call the police if he's seen on the premises, the same as any sane school administration would do. They could hire an amed guard or, they could arm teachers, which is what certain conservatives think is the answer to school violence. They wouldn't take it out on the victim and act immorally. If wose came to worse they could put her on paid leave until the danger was past. Suppose it was any employer whose employee was under attack. Should employers just fire the employee? Firing the victim is the only thing they can think of to protect other employees, customers or students? They show themselves to be completely spineless and immoral. Of course when it comes to the Catholic Church, we all knew that already. They'll move around and hide known child abusers but they'll fire a teacher of 16 years who is being stalked! Great thinking.No, they shouldn't have to do any of that, at all.... she can be easily replaced.
Well, in the very first sentence of the article, I saw the word "ex-husband." By Catholic definition, shouldn't that disqualify her from teaching...divorce and all :)
No. Since the Catholic Church doesn't recognize divorce, in its eyes they are still married. Only if she were to marry again would the church have an issue. Of course, this doesn't take into accound normal church blockheadedness. Lois Not quite, Lois. For example, after their divorce, the first husband of my second wife wanted to marry a Catholic woman, so they were faced with that problem. He talked to the priest who suggested a solution. He donate $500 and request that his first marriage be annulled. This required that he fill out a form and bring it to my wife for her to also sign, agreeing to the annulment. She did so although we both got a kick out of him asking for that and the Catholic church accepting it. My wife commented that she must have had five virgin births since they had had that many children during their marriage.. :lol: Occam Yes, I know. Money talks and marriages can be made to go away. A family member of mine tried to get his Catholic marriage annulled and was refused. The marriage was considered valid. I wonder if he'd had enough money if he could have had it annulled, too. Apparently there are is only one qualification for annulment: enough money to buy one. In the case of the teacher, however, the poster wondered if she would be disqualified from teaching for being divorced. She wouldn't be even without an annulment. but she'll never be able to get an annulment without substantial amounts of cash. That, unfortunately, is how it works in the Catholic Church. The rich get annulments, the poor are considered married, no matter what. LoisA catholic person who follows catholic rules gets what is coming to them. Hopefully they are some of the last.
The Catholic Church has yet again shown its spinelessness and lack of morality. Their tax exemption should be rescinded immediately. Of course it won't be. I'd be ashamed to send my kids to that school, though I wouldn't have needed an incident like this to keep them out of a Catholic school in the first place. Is it religious indoctrination that has fried their brains and their hearts? The Catholic Church has a history of hiding and moving around abusive preists. But if you are an employee teacher who has been the victim of abuse, they fire you and expell your kids from their school. Will they ever learn? http://www.examiner.com/article/san-diego-teacher-fired-following-domestic-violence-incident ... American Humanist Association
Lois, If the school administrators truly believed the abusive ex might come after this woman at the school, and thereby endanger others at the school, what should they have done to deal with this rather than firing her? It seems grossly unfair to this lady, but is there a better alternative for the school administrators? I hope that there is, but one does not immediately occur to me. They could beef up their security and be sure to call the police if he's seen on the premises, the same as any sane school administration would do. They could hire an amed guard or, they could arm teachers, which is what certain conservatives think is the answer to school violence. They wouldn't take it out on the victim and act immorally. If wose came to worse they could put her on paid leave until the danger was past. Suppose it was any employer whose employee was under attack. Should employers just fire the employee? Firing the victim is the only thing they can think of to protect other employees, customers or students? They show themselves to be completely spineless and immoral. Of course when it comes to the Catholic Church, we all knew that already. They'll move around and hide known child abusers but they'll fire a teacher of 16 years who is being stalked! Great thinking.No, they shouldn't have to do any of that, at all.... she can be easily replaced. So can you. You obviously have no understanding of right and wrong. That is the definition of amorality.
So can you.
I'm not a teacher.
You obviously have no understanding of right and wrong. That is the definition of amorality.
True enough, I am a moral nihilist
So can you.
I'm not a teacher.
You obviously have no understanding of right and wrong. That is the definition of amorality.
True enough, I am a moral nihilist Then don't get involved in discussions about morality. You have proven that have nothing to say about morality, so stop talking about it. You can be replaced in any position you are in if someone decides to stalk you. You don't have to be a teacher to be threatened and for that threat to affect other people.

I feel sorry for the teacher, and do not think it is fair.
I do not blame the church. If the ex-husband even came on to the school grounds and verbally scared the children the parents would sue and the school close down. I do not think the school had a choice. If this had happened in other states I think the school would have done something. But this was in California. The one to blame is the Trial Lawyers Association who runs the state.
The thinking that the school should hire guards or pay the teacher to stay a home, well that is government thinking. Private schools do not have the luxury of spending an endless amount of taxpayers’ money.
Why did she not get a restraining order or sue her ex-husband?
I was told by the largest school district in the United States (Orange County) one time that the district spends half its time in lawsuits by the parents and the other half in lawsuits by the teachers.
Twenty years ago, the number of teacher in the San Diego school district that was paid to stay at home was over 2,500 teachers. It cost the district less to pay the teachers to stay at home than to try and fire them.

You have proven that have nothing to say about morality, so stop talking about it.
I can see where you are coming from with your feelings about morality, but......no, I'm not going to stop talking about it.
You can be replaced in any position you are in if someone decides to stalk you. You don't have to be a teacher to be threatened and for that threat to affect other people.
Nah. Relax.

This is such a bizarre situation with so many dynamics involved, I have no clue how to assess the a priori principle in this dilemma.
Is California a “right to work” state? If so they can fire and replace anyone for any reason, I am not even sure that a (private/religious) school must give notice and if the teacher would qualify for unemployment insurance. After all she was not fired for “cause”, but for potential external threat.
Could a black teacher be fired, if a white supremacist threatened to kill all black teachers? If I understand this correctly, this female teacher is divorced from this man and has no "arms length’ connection to him anymore. This guy is just a terrorist and should be treated as such. Send this deranged mind to Gitmo, or some hellhole where he is separated from society altogether.
I used Gitmo as it is the place that houses fundies who think it is perfectly ok to kill your wife, if she sues for divorce you without the husband’s permission.
Perhaps this is simplistic, but he should be classified as a potential threat to “society”, not just the teacher and her charges. Is this woman safer by firing her? Is the school safer for firing her?
IMO, there is a clear direction toward an insidious theocratic take-over, where the church becomes “untouchable” and individuals can call for a fatwah on anyone. You have a mad man after you? Be gone, you must have caused this situation in the first place and the man has HIS rights to his “property” too as clearly stated in scripture.