Are you worried, maybe even a tad afraid? The world is in a different place now than it was just a few years ago. Religion, organized fundamentalist religion, is becoming more extreme, more vocal, and more dangerous every month. Religion and rejection of the supernatural tenets of religion is not a simple dichotomy The separation, with the exception of the extremes, is not a simple “I like vanilla", or “I like chocolate" statistical split, but such an “either/or" situation is the way fundamentalists see the choice a human must make. And if the choice is to reject their particular belief of the reason for existence, then the unbelievers doom is sealed, if not the immediate end of their life, then at least an eternity in hell.
Obviously, the rise of various forms of religious fundamentalism and conflict between them has greatly increased the actual physical danger of public rejection of religion. It is going from just targeting the physical hammer of religious attack from “the nail that sticks up" like Salman Rushdie and Charlie Hebdo, to violence on random individuals of a different religious culture and more subtle legal attacks on those who are seen as a threat to “freedom of the exercise of religion".
So I think it is possible, given the history of humanity, that if the trend that has begun to swing in the direction of religious intolerance continues in that direction, those that reject religion may find themselves hiding far deeper in closet of “go along to get along" (and preserve their life and property) than we think possible in this day and age. I hope that doesn’t happen, but…
I have been becoming more vocal in the last few years about the irrationality of religion and dangers that fundamentalist religious belief pose to science and the exercise of reason. Actually to the point where a friend sent me this note.
Hi Skip,
I really am concerned about some Islamic fanatic deciding that you’re an infidel that needs to be decapitated. Those people are beyond reason and you are a person of note that would give them some publicity. I concur that being cautious around them gives them an element of victory but I am more concerned about your welfare then I am about their horrific achievements.
I responded with this note: I also have some concerns for the possible retaliations for speaking one’s mind on controversial issues. In a way, the results of not speaking out on issues where there is a great danger that disagreement can lead to reappraisal, hatred, and physical attack can only lead to a society where to disagree or reject a religious belief becomes a crime punishable by death. Slavery, the great inquisition, and in the current day, extreme Islam are examples. So although I have no plans to carry a placard in Times Square, I do feel the need to occasionally speak out against the irrationality and ignorance of much of organized religious practice. So I’ll sharpen my lance and keep on the lookout for windmills.
So what can we do?
Yes that’s a tough one. I often wonder what celebs who speak out do, for example Jon Stewart comes to mind. Does he live in constant fear that someone will take their vengeance out on his kids, wife, or him?
One thing I learned a long time ago is that you can’t in fact fight religious extremists of any sort. The best you can do is actually agree with them, then try to steer them in the correct direction. For example, instead of trying to argue that Jesus never existed, agree that he did, agree that he had many wonderful things to say, and did many wonderful things, AND therefore you should be in favor of free healthcare for all, since Jesus never charged anyone for healing them. That kind of thing.
I am not certain that it is as bad as all that. In my opinion, fundamentalism SEEMS to be on the rise because whether they are followers of Islam or Christianity, they are more like the cornered animal. They see the world moving away from them and their beliefs and in desperation are lashing out.
They make a lot of noise and they are indeed dangerous. But I do not see it as the trend. Rather, they are reacting against the trend toward science and reason.
20 years ago, the company where I worked had the President of the company tell us that we had better vote Republican if we were smart. No Liberal dared speak up for fear of losing their job. And this was real.
The place I work today has a number of “Communities” with which they encourage employees to get involved. One such “Community” is the “LGBTA Forum” (the A is for Allies). This would have been impossible 20 years ago.
No, I am not afraid. People who are afraid vote Republican.
I am not certain that it is as bad as all that. In my opinion, fundamentalism SEEMS to be on the rise because whether they are followers of Islam or Christianity, they are more like the cornered animal. They see the world moving away from them and their beliefs and in desperation are lashing out. They make a lot of noise and they are indeed dangerous. But I do not see it as the trend. Rather, they are reacting against the trend toward science and reason. 20 years ago, the company where I worked had the President of the company tell us that we had better vote Republican if we were smart. No Liberal dared speak up for fear of losing their job. And this was real. The place I work today has a number of "Communities" with which they encourage employees to get involved. One such "Community" is the "LGBTA Forum" (the A is for Allies). This would have been impossible 20 years ago. No, I am not afraid. People who are afraid vote Republican.Perfect finishing line! Quotable!
It depends.
Muslims will inevitably conquer Western Europe within my lifetime. I’m not European, but as a European-American I worry about the loss of that culture.
None of the big problems in America are really religion based.
Muslims will inevitably conquer Western Europe within my lifetime.Inevitable? Why is it inevitable?
None of the big problems in America are really religion based.Wow! And yet if there was no religion in America, we would have far fewer problems.
It depends. Muslims will inevitably conquer Western Europe within my lifetime. I'm not European, but as a European-American I worry about the loss of that culture. None of the big problems in America are really religion based.Is everything really that black and white to you? Like, you "always" speak in absolutes.
Inevitable? Why is it inevitable?Europeans are not reproducing, and the native population is aging. The remaining Euro's are hell-bent on proving they aren't racist, and keeping their pensions, so they will continue to import more third world trash. The immigrant populations are doing fine reproducing, and they will take over soon. http://www.mapsofworld.com/europe/thematic/countries-by-birth-rate.html
No. The problems we have are due to the toilet called multiculturalism.None of the big problems in America are really religion based.Wow! And yet if there was no religion in America, we would have far fewer problems.
None of the big problems in America are really religion based.:grrr: The malicious counterproductive bullshit surrounding birth control and abortion rights?! The stupid bullshit about actually sincerely believing this Earth is like 6,000 yrs old and god's plan is to destroy it anyways, so F'it?! Evangelical fundamentalists and fanatics with their bottomless pockets and disregard for USA democratic principles, and their bullying politics?! Bush/Cheney's "Crusade" with it's never-ending destructive fall out. and so on and so forth. Seems to me religion has done our country a lot of good, but the evangelical movement over the past fifty years is a hideous thing of destructive megalomania - and it's made our country a more hostile place and left us so divisive that solutions is that last thing on anyone's mind, and protecting turf is all that seems to matter anymore. Although considering the Reaganomics thing, you could always say the religion was just the secondary calling to camouflage their Hollywood Greed Dream within - and it's all selfish greed and not religion's fault per se :lol:
the toilet called multiculturalismOK. Now I see where you are coming from. You are representing the social conservative point of view.
I’m anxious and afraid all the time and I never vote Republican.
Every day I hear about people being maimed and killed all around me. Random shoothigs, terrorist acts, a suicidal airline pilot, other kinds of airline accidents, traffic accidents, disease, sudden heart attacks, strokes. So far my loved ones and I have been spared from anything devastating, but I can’t help but worry about whether my/our luck will run out. Anything can happen to anyone. I have a husband and two sons who fly around the world regularly. But everyone is vulnerable to something devastating. I have no feeling that any of these things can’t or won’t happen to my loved ones at any moment. I am especially fearful if I am out of contact for a substantial amount of time. Doesn’t everyone in this day and age have similar anxieties? I can’t imagine how anyone can relax and not think constantly of all the things that could go wrong. I’m good at covering up my anxieties and I can pretend to be relatively happy and carefree so most people don’t know what’s actually roiling of inside me. I have given up listening to the news for the most part because it is a constant litany of horrors I can do absolutely nothing to control.
Lois
It depends. Muslims will inevitably conquer Western Europe within my lifetime. I'm not European, but as a European-American I worry about the loss of that culture. None of the big problems in America are really religion based.I've heard this kind of prejudice disguised as socio-political commentary, and, although I'm really not interested in why you think it or how you think it will happen, what I am interested in is, what "culture" are you going to miss? The world I was born into had just thrown off the oppressive, colonial, nepotistic, feudal past but it did it through 50 years of wars. Communism was already failing when I was born and I'm glad I lived to see it so marginalized. What began around the end of WWII was the idea of charity on a massive scale. We've had some spectacular failure at that too, but it's a completely new idea. I'm looking forward to the loss of a culture that treats women like second class citizens and allows for purchasing changes in laws that lead to increased oppression. I'd like a culture where religion is on par with fairy tales and innovations in worker unions are on par with innovations in iPod technology. What is it you are so worried about losing?
Muslims will inevitably conquer Western Europe within my lifetime.Don't look now but something else is going to be conquering our hubristic arses in your life time.
I can’t help but worry ...I understand. My mother was that way. Sometimes we would joke that she worried about so many things that she sucked all the worry out of the rest of the family. Whether that contributed to it or not, I just can't seem to expend the effort to worry about things that are out of my control.
That's nice if you can pull it off. Do you not worry when, for example, you know someone you love is driving, is very late and there has been no contact for a substantial period of time? Do you actually have no fear that the loved one might have been involved in an accident? If you can do that, I commend you (I think). That ability to not think about possible bad outcomes has eluded me all my life. Do you have children? LoisI can’t help but worry ...I understand. My mother was that way. Sometimes we would joke that she worried about so many things that she sucked all the worry out of the rest of the family. Whether that contributed to it or not, I just can't seem to expend the effort to worry about things that are out of my control.
Do you actually have no fear that the loved one might have been involved in an accident? ... Do you have children?That is not exactly what I meant (and rereading your post, I suppose I was answering more in the general than the specific). Yes, I have children (all grown up and out of the nest now) and for my immediate family and things that could logically be affecting them (driving at night, not being home when expected, ...), yes, I get concerned. For a specific, immediate event I get concerned. What I meant is that I don't lose sleep being concerned about terrorist attacks, Islam taking over the world, Iran launching nuclear weapons, the religious-right destroying the Constitution and taking over America from intelligent Patriotic people or a social-conservative Republican getting into the White House; all terrible things to be sure, but there isn't much I can do about any of them). And while my kids are all living far away now, and bad things could happen, I don't dwell on that.
What I meant is that I don’t lose sleep being concerned about terrorist attacks, Islam taking over the world, Iran launching nuclear weapons, the religious-right destroying the Constitution and taking over America from intelligent Patriotic people or a social-conservative Republican getting into the White House; all terrible things to be sure, but there isn’t much I can do about any of them). And while my kids are all living far away now, and bad things could happen, I don’t dwell on that.IMO there's always something to worry about; something to fill need to concern ourselves about, some outside influence on our lives to frighten us into either taking action or recoiling from in fear. That's why Fox News exists. There are "alerts" every few seconds and now with international news we see humanity's evil side on a global scale. The question is what to do about it. And things aren't always what the media and two faced politicians want us to believe. We're skeptics right? Ok, have there ever been any terrorist attacks in your neighborhood, or even your State worth mentioning? Check the stats. What are your chances of being gunned down in a local WalMart or Taco Bell (blech BTW). Does Iran have the capability to launch a nonexistent nuclear weapon? No. Is the religious right destroying the Constitution? Nope. In fact their political base is shrinking and they just took it on the chin in The religious freedom controversy. There is and will continue to be push back especially from the next generation who are supplanting the baby boomers. A recent Pew poll reveals them to be progressive on most social and political issues. Rand Paul's trying to tap into that as we speak. Bad things can and have happened to all of us; that's life. We've all lost someone near and dear to us via age, disease or accident but you have to live your life out, and why not be optimistic that it will end well? Sure we're concerned about those we love and want to protect them as much as possible but logically they have their own path to tred until their ultimate end. Do what you can to make your corner better for your friends, family and neighbors because ultimately, that's all you can do. Oh, and teach your grand kids to be skeptics and how to recognize BS. It'll make their lives a lot more interesting! Cap't Jack
All true, and I can accept that argument intellectually. My emotional self has a harder time with it, however. It often refuses to cooperate with rational thought and throws tantrums. . LoisWhat I meant is that I don’t lose sleep being concerned about terrorist attacks, Islam taking over the world, Iran launching nuclear weapons, the religious-right destroying the Constitution and taking over America from intelligent Patriotic people or a social-conservative Republican getting into the White House; all terrible things to be sure, but there isn’t much I can do about any of them). And while my kids are all living far away now, and bad things could happen, I don’t dwell on that.IMO there's always something to worry about; something to fill need to concern ourselves about, some outside influence on our lives to frighten us into either taking action or recoiling from in fear. That's why Fox News exists. There are "alerts" every few seconds and now with international news we see humanity's evil side on a global scale. The question is what to do about it. And things aren't always what the media and two faced politicians want us to believe. We're skeptics right? Ok, have there ever been any terrorist attacks in your neighborhood, or even your State worth mentioning? Check the stats. What are your chances of being gunned down in a local WalMart or Taco Bell (blech BTW). Does Iran have the capability to launch a nonexistent nuclear weapon? No. Is the religious right destroying the Constitution? Nope. In fact their political base is shrinking and they just took it on the chin in The religious freedom controversy. There is and will continue to be push back especially from the next generation who are supplanting the baby boomers. A recent Pew poll reveals them to be progressive on most social and political issues. Rand Paul's trying to tap into that as we speak. Bad things can and have happened to all of us; that's life. We've all lost someone near and dear to us via age, disease or accident but you have to live your life out, and why not be optimistic that it will end well? Sure we're concerned about those we love and want to protect them as much as possible but logically they have their own path to tred until their ultimate end. Do what you can to make your corner better for your friends, family and neighbors because ultimately, that's all you can do. Oh, and teach your grand kids to be skeptics and how to recognize BS. It'll make their lives a lot more interesting! Cap't Jack
Is the religious right destroying the Constitution? Nope.Perhaps I am "concerned" where others are "worried". In the above, for example, the answer "Nope" is correct but it still concerns me. When people like Ann Coulter can espouse her neo-nazi drivel and sell it as both Patriotic and fact, it concerns me that she makes money off of people actually buying her books and her arguments. I must admit I have never read any of her books, but I have read things she's written and seen her in interviews. She is, to me, among the most un-Patriotic, dishonest and potential destroyers of the Constitution running around on the loose. It concerns me, but as her following is an ever dwindling population, I do not worry about it.