Yes I've done that and continue to do it. LoisWhat I meant is that I don’t lose sleep being concerned about terrorist attacks, Islam taking over the world, Iran launching nuclear weapons, the religious-right destroying the Constitution and taking over America from intelligent Patriotic people or a social-conservative Republican getting into the White House; all terrible things to be sure, but there isn’t much I can do about any of them). And while my kids are all living far away now, and bad things could happen, I don’t dwell on that.IMO there's always something to worry about; something to fill need to concern ourselves about, some outside influence on our lives to frighten us into either taking action or recoiling from in fear. That's why Fox News exists. There are "alerts" every few seconds and now with international news we see humanity's evil side on a global scale. The question is what to do about it. And things aren't always what the media and two faced politicians want us to believe. We're skeptics right? Ok, have there ever been any terrorist attacks in your neighborhood, or even your State worth mentioning? Check the stats. What are your chances of being gunned down in a local WalMart or Taco Bell (blech BTW). Does Iran have the capability to launch a nonexistent nuclear weapon? No. Is the religious right destroying the Constitution? Nope. In fact their political base is shrinking and they just took it on the chin in The religious freedom controversy. There is and will continue to be push back especially from the next generation who are supplanting the baby boomers. A recent Pew poll reveals them to be progressive on most social and political issues. Rand Paul's trying to tap into that as we speak. Bad things can and have happened to all of us; that's life. We've all lost someone near and dear to us via age, disease or accident but you have to live your life out, and why not be optimistic that it will end well? Sure we're concerned about those we love and want to protect them as much as possible but logically they have their own path to tred until their ultimate end. Do what you can to make your corner better for your friends, family and neighbors because ultimately, that's all you can do. Oh, and teach your grand kids to be skeptics and how to recognize BS. It'll make their lives a lot more interesting! Cap't Jack
Perhaps I am “concerned" where others are “worried". In the above, for example, the answer “Nope" is correct but it still concerns me. When people like Ann Coulter can espouse her neo-nazi drivel and sell it as both Patriotic and fact, it concerns me that she makes money off of people actually buying her books and her arguments. I must admit I have never read any of her books, but I have read things she’s written and seen her in interviews. She is, to me, among the most un-Patriotic, dishonest and potential destroyers of the Constitution running around on the loose.Once I took the opportunity to skim a few chapters of one of her books and from what I read anyone with an elementary knowledge of history and government could refute her specious rants. So, you don't have much to worry about there. She's a step above Ted Nugent with her bombastic style. I lump her with Hannity, O'Reiley and the Faux news flamers. My real worry comes from SCOTUS. Hopefully the Prez. Will have the ability to put some liberals on the dais, or at least a moderate or two. Cap't Jack
Yes I’ve done that and continue to do it.Good! Maybe we can leave a community of future skeptics who vote! Cap't Jack
It depends. Muslims will inevitably conquer Western Europe within my lifetime. I'm not European, but as a European-American I worry about the loss of that culture. None of the big problems in America are really religion based.I've heard this kind of prejudice disguised as socio-political commentary, and, although I'm really not interested in why you think it or how you think it will happen, what I am interested in is, what "culture" are you going to miss? The world I was born into had just thrown off the oppressive, colonial, nepotistic, feudal past but it did it through 50 years of wars. Communism was already failing when I was born and I'm glad I lived to see it so marginalized. What began around the end of WWII was the idea of charity on a massive scale. We've had some spectacular failure at that too, but it's a completely new idea. I'm looking forward to the loss of a culture that treats women like second class citizens and allows for purchasing changes in laws that lead to increased oppression. I'd like a culture where religion is on par with fairy tales and innovations in worker unions are on par with innovations in iPod technology. What is it you are so worried about losing?Western culture is what I don't want to see destroyed, it isn't perfect, but its better than anything else out there. There are many aspects of Western culture that don't exist anywhere else - e.g. the sense of order, individualism, the sense of curiosity and exploration for its own sake, just to name a few.
I'm looking forward to the loss of a culture that treats women like second class citizensWomen have never had it better than they do in the modern west.
and allows for purchasing changes in laws that lead to increased oppression.Increased political corruption is caused by "diversity" in general. I mistakenly thought this post didn't go through. Basically my new post below is a double-post.
I'm looking forward to the loss of a culture that treats women like second class citizens and allows for purchasing changes in laws that lead to increased oppression. I'd like a culture where religion is on par with fairy tales and innovations in worker unions are on par with innovations in iPod technology.1) Women have it better in the modern West than ever before. 2) Increased "diversity" makes political corruption more likely. 3) Western culture is the only one that comes close to treating religion like a fairy tale.
Okay mid atlantic, those were better responses than I’d expected. I don’t remember how you usually respond to cultural issues, but usually when people talking about “losing" Western culture they’re talking about patriarchal family values, or “carrying a big stick" or something. I like the values you list, but I’m not so sure I see them as strictly Western. It’s just not that clear cut. For instance the US may be a leader in religious pluralism when you look at our laws, but in practice there are a lot of believers out there. Many of them are trying to roll back those laws.
Okay mid atlantic, those were better responses than I’d expected. I don’t remember how you usually respond to cultural issues, but usually when people talking about “losing" Western culture they’re talking about patriarchal family values, or “carrying a big stick" or something. I like the values you list, but I’m not so sure I see them as strictly Western. It’s just not that clear cut. For instance the US may be a leader in religious pluralism when you look at our laws, but in practice there are a lot of believers out there. Many of them are trying to roll back those laws."Western" values hav proven to be good for most people, but not necessarily US values, which started out fine but have been hijacked by the extreme right. Lois
Inevitable? Why is it inevitable?Europeans are not reproducing, and the native population is aging. The remaining Euro's are hell-bent on proving they aren't racist, and keeping their pensions, so they will continue to import more third world trash. If you want to see trash, look in the mirror. How easy it is to characterize as "trash" people, who through no fault or request of their own, are born into countries where they are given few or no educational or job opportunities, because of the dysfunctional autocracies of their kleptomaniac rulers. And when these people, as any people would, desperately attempt to escape these circumstances that they did not ask for -- people who are already damaged by lack of educational opportunities, and in many cases traumatized by their violent upbringings -- we have no want of smug, well-fed, well-educated, lucky, self-satisfied assholes to call them "trash."
BTW, you might want to reflect on the fact that one of the reasons the Middle East is in such turmoil is because after World War I and the demise of the Ottoman Empire, the West, where you were lucky enough to be born, basically divvied up the region into colonies that had no bearing on the religious, ethnic or cultural background of the inhabitants. So the West can blame itself for the blowback.
Calling such innocent people trash … my, my!
Again, sir, look in the mirror.
Okay mid atlantic, those were better responses than I’d expected. I don’t remember how you usually respond to cultural issues, but usually when people talking about “losing" Western culture they’re talking about patriarchal family values, or “carrying a big stick" or something. I like the values you list, but I’m not so sure I see them as strictly Western. It’s just not that clear cut. For instance the US may be a leader in religious pluralism when you look at our laws, but in practice there are a lot of believers out there. Many of them are trying to roll back those laws.No other culture has those values. East Asians have a sense of "order", though very different from ours, the other features I listed aren't found anywhere else. Also, so called patriarchal family values are the only workable family values that exist - the decline of "patriarchy" (the term can mean several things) in the west coincides with our declining birth rates.
Okay mid atlantic, those were better responses than I’d expected. I don’t remember how you usually respond to cultural issues, but usually when people talking about “losing" Western culture they’re talking about patriarchal family values, or “carrying a big stick" or something. I like the values you list, but I’m not so sure I see them as strictly Western. It’s just not that clear cut. For instance the US may be a leader in religious pluralism when you look at our laws, but in practice there are a lot of believers out there. Many of them are trying to roll back those laws."Western" values hav proven to be good for most people, but not necessarily US values, which started out fine but have been hijacked by the extreme right. LoisYou misunderstand, western values are not good for most people, they're good for us. Nor can they be lived by most people.
Inevitable? Why is it inevitable?Europeans are not reproducing, and the native population is aging. The remaining Euro's are hell-bent on proving they aren't racist, and keeping their pensions, so they will continue to import more third world trash. If you want to see trash, look in the mirror. How easy it is to characterize as "trash" people, who through no fault or request of their own, are born into countries where they are given few or no educational or job opportunities, because of the dysfunctional autocracies of their kleptomaniac rulers. And when these people, as any people would, desperately attempt to escape these circumstances that they did not ask for -- people who are already damaged by lack of educational opportunities, and in many cases traumatized by their violent upbringings -- we have no want of smug, well-fed, well-educated, lucky, self-satisfied assholes to call them "trash."Most of the immigrants weren't dreaming of a leaving their homes for Europe. Those immigrants are being shipped in to western Europe by the governments of those countries (under many false promises) - the main reason is to replace an aging population in order to keep their pensions, but also out of a sense of white guilt.
BTW, you might want to reflect on the fact that one of the reasons the Middle East is in such turmoil is because after World War I and the demise of the Ottoman Empire, the West, where you were lucky enough to be born, basically divvied up the region into colonies that had no bearing on the religious, ethnic or cultural background of the inhabitants. So the West can blame itself for the blowback. Calling such innocent people trash … my, my! Again, sir, look in the mirror.1) The Ottoman Empire was at war with western Europe for 600 years, so fu*k them. Before that, the Arabic Empire was at war with Europe for 700 years, so fu*k them too. 2) The ultimate reason for Middle Eastern dysfunction is inbreeding. Cousin marriage is widely practiced, which makes clan-based politics the only viable way. The borders that Europe set up don't mean anything, because the Mideast peoples don't respect "borders" in that way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage 3) The only real Western mistake in the Middle East was the propping up of Israel. In terms of "blowback", that is.
1) The Ottoman Empire was at war with western Europe for 600 years, so fu*k them. Before that, the Arabic Empire was at war with Europe for 700 years, so fu*k them too. 2) The ultimate reason for Middle Eastern dysfunction is inbreeding. Cousin marriage is widely practiced, which makes clan-based politics the only viable way. The borders that Europe set up don’t mean anything, because the Mideast peoples don’t respect “borders" in that way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage 3) The only real Western mistake in the Middle East was the propping up of Israel. In terms of “blowback", that is.1. You left out the part about the Ottoman Empire's military alliance with Imperial Germany in World War I (1914-1918) and the fact that the Crusades (begun in 1095 by the Pope) started when a European horde attacked and slaughtered every Turk in their path regardless of race, creed or ethnic background. Also British Petroleum's efforts to control the oil fields after the War led to political wrangling and continued colonialism. 2. First of all, prove it. This is post hoc bombast, cousin marriage is allowed therefore Middle Easterners are dysfunctional. If you look at the post you provided the accompanying map clearly shows that not only does the Middle East allow cousin marriage but so does several areas world wide, even (gasp) certain States in the U.S. Does this mean that all Floridians are dysfunctional because cousin marriage is allowed, or is The map flawed? Cousin marriage was common in colonial America. Does this mean that their descendants are dysfunctional? My wife and I are distant cousins, should I worry about our children? Also mentioned is the fact? That only one in ten participate in cousin marriage except in Syria. Also cousin marriage is allowed in the Jewish community, should they be concerned as well? I don't think so. It's a cultural trait followed by a paternalistic society. 3. The concept of recreating Israel initially came as a result of the holocaust and our insistence on giving the remaining Jews a safe haven. I agree that it morphed into an expansionist State and with an ultraconservative leader they're headed for more trouble. He definitely needs to be reigned but the neo-Cons in the Rep. Party won't allow it. For that I lay the blame on their constituents. Cap't Jack
Okay mid atlantic, those were better responses than I’d expected. I don’t remember how you usually respond to cultural issues, but usually when people talking about “losing" Western culture they’re talking about patriarchal family values, or “carrying a big stick" or something. I like the values you list, but I’m not so sure I see them as strictly Western. It’s just not that clear cut. For instance the US may be a leader in religious pluralism when you look at our laws, but in practice there are a lot of believers out there. Many of them are trying to roll back those laws."Western" values hav proven to be good for most people, but not necessarily US values, which started out fine but have been hijacked by the extreme right. LoisYou misunderstand, western values are not good for most people, they're good for us. Nor can they be lived by most people. Can you elucidate and give some examples? Lois
2. First of all, prove it. This is post hoc bombast, cousin marriage is allowed therefore Middle Easterners are dysfunctional. If you look at the post you provided the accompanying map clearly shows that not only does the Middle East allow cousin marriage but so does several areas world wide, even (gasp) certain States in the U.S. Does this mean that all Floridians are dysfunctional because cousin marriage is allowed, or is The map flawed?Did you notice the regions of the world where cousin marriage is common are the most dysfunctional on a large scale? There is a lack of large scale cooperation in those places, because inbreeding causes clan-like behavior; i.e. an inability to trust those who aren't "close" to you. IOW, its bad for democracy. http://jcc.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/04/24/0022022112443855
Cousin marriage was common in colonial America. Does this mean that their descendants are dysfunctional? My wife and I are distant cousins, should I worry about our children?It generally only causes trouble when its second cousins or closer, mating.
Also mentioned is the fact? That only one in ten participate in cousin marriage except in Syria.I think you misread - The Middle East has uniquely high rates of cousin marriage among the world's regions. Certain Middle Eastern countries, including Saudi Arabia, have rates of marriage to first or second cousins that may exceed 70%.[2] Iraq was estimated in one study to have a rate of 33%,[109] and figures for Afghanistan have been estimated in the range of 30–40%.
Also cousin marriage is allowed in the Jewish community, should they be concerned as well? I don't think so.Its allowed, but not prevalent among the high achieving Ashkenazi - From wiki Patai states in his other book The Myth of the Jewish Race that percentage of cousin marriage among Jews varies extensively with geographic location. Among Israeli Ashkenazi Jews, who originate mainly from Europe, the first-cousin marriage rate was measured in a 1955-7 study at 1.4% and other cousin marriages at 1.06% of all marriages. But among non-Ashkenazim the first-cousin marriage rate was 8.8% and an additional 6.0% of marriages were between more distant cousins. Thus a total 14.6% of marriages between non-Askenazim were consanguineous compared with only 2.5% for Ashkenazim. The highest frequencies of cousin marriages were found among Jews from Iraq (28.7%) and Iran (26.3%). High rates were also found among couples from Yemen (18.3%), Aden (17.8%), Tunisia (13.4%), and among Oriental Jews from the USSR (6.9%). Jews from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Turkey saw rates of 7-10.7%. A later 1969-70 study rated the first-cousin marriage rate among Ashkenazim at 0.3% and other cousin marriages at 1.0%, while for non-Askenazim the respective figures were 6.2% and 8.1%. Among the Habbani Jews in Israel, 56% of marriages are between first cousins. The Samaritans also had very high rates of inbreeding, with 43% of marriages between first cousins and 33.3% between other cousins.
3. The concept of recreating Israel initially came as a result of the holocaust and our insistence on giving the remaining Jews a safe haven. I agree that it morphed into an expansionist State and with an ultraconservative leader they're headed for more trouble. He definitely needs to be reigned but the neo-Cons in the Rep. Party won't allow it. For that I lay the blame on their constituents.It was mainly about having an ally in the postwar Mideast.
Okay mid atlantic, those were better responses than I’d expected. I don’t remember how you usually respond to cultural issues, but usually when people talking about “losing" Western culture they’re talking about patriarchal family values, or “carrying a big stick" or something. I like the values you list, but I’m not so sure I see them as strictly Western. It’s just not that clear cut. For instance the US may be a leader in religious pluralism when you look at our laws, but in practice there are a lot of believers out there. Many of them are trying to roll back those laws."Western" values hav proven to be good for most people, but not necessarily US values, which started out fine but have been hijacked by the extreme right. LoisYou misunderstand, western values are not good for most people, they're good for us. Nor can they be lived by most people. Can you elucidate and give some examples? LoisI mean trying to impart western values on non-westerners hasn't worked, but more importantly, that isn't even possible because values are biologically determined. The values of the West evolved because of the unique pressures the West has faced throughout its history - all environments select for something. 1) Colonial African nations are a good example. 2) Latin America - the huge difference between predominately white areas compared to predominately non-white areas. (e.g. Bolivia vs Uruguay)
Did you notice the regions of the world where cousin marriage is common are the most dysfunctional on a large scale? There is a lack of large scale cooperation in those places, because inbreeding causes clan-like behavior; i.e. an inability to trust those who aren’t “close" to you. IOW, its bad for democracy.So the entire Southeastern U.S. Isn't an area? And they have no "democratic" values? Once again, a false equivalency. Those paternalistic societies demand consanguinity to keep the culture intact. And even the article you cited states that the percentage of disabling physical conditions increases by only 3% due to close cousin marriage. I do agree however that "clan like" behavior has had a debilitating affect on cultural modernity, but this isn't genetic. Cap't Jack
1) The entire south doesn't have high rates of cousin marriage, it only does compared to the rest of the country. The area in the US where people are the most inbred (Appalachia) is incapable of large scale cooperation, that's why its in the shape it's in. 2) Yes, the risk of deformities caused by cousin marriage is low, but that's not the point....the point is that clannish behavior is caused by cosanguinity. 3) All human personality traits are heritable, it's always genetic.Did you notice the regions of the world where cousin marriage is common are the most dysfunctional on a large scale? There is a lack of large scale cooperation in those places, because inbreeding causes clan-like behavior; i.e. an inability to trust those who aren’t “close" to you. IOW, its bad for democracy.So the entire Southeastern U.S. Isn't an area? And they have no "democratic" values? Once again, a false equivalency. Those paternalistic societies demand consanguinity to keep the culture intact. And even the article you cited states that the percentage of disabling physical conditions increases by only 3% due to close cousin marriage. I do agree however that "clan like" behavior has had a debilitating affect on cultural modernity, but this isn't genetic. Cap't Jack