https://forum.emptyclosets.com/index.php?threads/the-final-fade-of-a-fugacious-fellow.457809/
I could use a bit of assistance with this, I don’t know how to reply to the users desire to off themselves. I know there is some philosophically accurate thing to say but I don’t know what. If this is against some sort of rule then I apologize and ask this to be deleted.
Didn’t read it. You shouldn’t respond, other than to post the suicide hotline. You are in no position to give advice on this issue.
FYI, the link seems to require a login.
I dunno, I’m skeptical there’s anything an anonymous stranger on the Internuts can say to talk someone out of suicide. But, if the person has started a thread on the subject and is inviting comments then a foolish person such as myself would probably proceed to opine.
I would ask their age first. If they’re over 50 I’d butt out. If they were under that age I might say something like…
Why not try some radical changes in your life? What have you got to lose?
https://forum.emptyclosets.com/index.php?threads/the-final-fade-of-a-fugacious-fellow.457809/ I could use a bit of assistance with this, I don't know how to reply to the users desire to off themselves. I know there is some philosophically accurate thing to say but I don't know what. If this is against some sort of rule then I apologize and ask this to be deleted.A lot depends on the reason. You might ask what brought him or her to this decision and go from there. You can offer to "be there" for the person. You can say there's always a better way to handle it. A person who has had a fatal medical diagnosis may not be open to anything you might say. Take a look at this website. It might give you some ideas. https://www.helpguide.org/articles/suicide-prevention/suicide-prevention.htm
They made it seem like there was a logic reason for not going on. Like being bound by the rules of society and convention. That what he has to look forward to is a life of schooling in a field he doesn’t have terrible interest in just to be able to sustain themselves for no particular reason, assuming he doesn’t need support from the family. That he’s mostly a creature of thought at the moment and that reality has limits to it and that the unknown of the next day isn’t really that unknown as you can narrow it down. Each day being more of a copy of the last than anything terribly move or exciting. That there was no reason to continue to perpetuate humanity especially since a growing population would lead to a lower quality of life for others.
It almost sounded like an actual rational reasoning for it. Though I found it odd that if he was so dead set on this why bring it to a forum for discussion?
It sounds like he might be experiencing an existential crises, which is something many people (including myself) have gone through. If this is the case then talking though the crises could be helpful because in this situation it is the way someone is thinking that is causing the depression and by trying to get him to look at things in a slightly new light could help.
On the other hand, if it is something biochemical it might require some kind of medical intervention, so you have to tread carefully here. People who have a biochemical imbalance cannot help feeling the way they do at times and perhaps the best advice in this case is to advise medical referral. It sounds to me that perhaps he is simply tired of the kind of lifestyle he leads which would suggest he feels powerless to change it. In this case talking about his problems would be good as being able to express his problems to someone else kind of shares his burden and can modify how he views his troubles. He has obviously made a call for help so somebody needs to assist him in whatever way seems best.
I don’t think that’s the case. I think he’s thought through it and came to the conclusion that there is no reason to exist. That life isn’t as magical as people make it out to be. That if people do make it out to be that way then it shows how worth it that life is worth living.
And to a degree he is right. The majority of people will end up in unremarkable jobs to pay their bills and the like, merely existing. That the options people like to claim exist aren’t as infinite as possible, or if they are it’s only for a lucky few. It’s hard to look at life reasonably and conclude it to be worth living.
I don't think that's the case. I think he's thought through it and came to the conclusion that there is no reason to exist. That life isn't as magical as people make it out to be. That if people do make it out to be that way then it shows how worth it that life is worth living. And to a degree he is right. The majority of people will end up in unremarkable jobs to pay their bills and the like, merely existing. That the options people like to claim exist aren't as infinite as possible, or if they are it's only for a lucky few. It's hard to look at life reasonably and conclude it to be worth living.Yes, but this is placing a very negative take on things. If you keep looking at life as a set of problems instead of situations you can change then naturally you will feel down. It's all a matter of attitude and it sounds to me like this guy feels he is powerless to change his life. He has to be encouraged to be more pro-active in his life to improve his situation, which isn't easy I admit, but it seems he's on an ever downward spiral which will just get worse until he breaks it. You can literally 'think' yourself into a depression and if you allow your unhelpful thinking take too much hold, it can seem impossible to break out. Of course, there are things he may not be telling you about that could be driving his depression, I don't know, but one thing that would help him is talking things out, even on a chatroom because by getting someone to express their problems to another person it can make them seem less intimidating and intractable. He's taken the first step by talking to you which shows he's asking for help, so I hope he keeps in contact with you or others.
I don't think that's the case. I think he's thought through it and came to the conclusion that there is no reason to exist. That life isn't as magical as people make it out to be. That if people do make it out to be that way then it shows how worth it that life is worth living. And to a degree he is right. The majority of people will end up in unremarkable jobs to pay their bills and the like, merely existing. That the options people like to claim exist aren't as infinite as possible, or if they are it's only for a lucky few. It's hard to look at life reasonably and conclude it to be worth living.Yes, but this is placing a very negative take on things. If you keep looking at life as a set of problems instead of situations you can change then naturally you will feel down. It's all a matter of attitude and it sounds to me like this guy feels he is powerless to change his life. He has to be encouraged to be more pro-active in his life to improve his situation, which isn't easy I admit, but it seems he's on an ever downward spiral which will just get worse until he breaks it. You can literally 'think' yourself into a depression and if you allow your unhelpful thinking take too much hold, it can seem impossible to break out. Of course, there are things he may not be telling you about that could be driving his depression, I don't know, but one thing that would help him is talking things out, even on a chatroom because by getting someone to express their problems to another person it can make them seem less intimidating and intractable. He's taken the first step by talking to you which shows he's asking for help, so I hope he keeps in contact with you or others. I don't think you understand nor did you read this part: And to a degree he is right. The majority of people will end up in unremarkable jobs to pay their bills and the like, merely existing. That the options people like to claim exist aren’t as infinite as possible, or if they are it’s only for a lucky few. It’s hard to look at life reasonably and conclude it to be worth living. He seemed to make a reasonable conclusion free from the naive optimism you hear in response to suicide. I think I want to believe that optimism to be true, because that means it could happen to me. But I know it most likely doesn't for the average person.
I don't think that's the case. I think he's thought through it and came to the conclusion that there is no reason to exist. That life isn't as magical as people make it out to be. That if people do make it out to be that way then it shows how worth it that life is worth living. And to a degree he is right. The majority of people will end up in unremarkable jobs to pay their bills and the like, merely existing. That the options people like to claim exist aren't as infinite as possible, or if they are it's only for a lucky few. It's hard to look at life reasonably and conclude it to be worth living.Yes, but this is placing a very negative take on things. If you keep looking at life as a set of problems instead of situations you can change then naturally you will feel down. It's all a matter of attitude and it sounds to me like this guy feels he is powerless to change his life. He has to be encouraged to be more pro-active in his life to improve his situation, which isn't easy I admit, but it seems he's on an ever downward spiral which will just get worse until he breaks it. You can literally 'think' yourself into a depression and if you allow your unhelpful thinking take too much hold, it can seem impossible to break out. Of course, there are things he may not be telling you about that could be driving his depression, I don't know, but one thing that would help him is talking things out, even on a chatroom because by getting someone to express their problems to another person it can make them seem less intimidating and intractable. He's taken the first step by talking to you which shows he's asking for help, so I hope he keeps in contact with you or others. I don't think you understand nor did you read this part: And to a degree he is right. The majority of people will end up in unremarkable jobs to pay their bills and the like, merely existing. That the options people like to claim exist aren’t as infinite as possible, or if they are it’s only for a lucky few. It’s hard to look at life reasonably and conclude it to be worth living. He seemed to make a reasonable conclusion free from the naive optimism you hear in response to suicide. I think I want to believe that optimism to be true, because that means it could happen to me. But I know it most likely doesn't for the average person. What I understand is that you seem to be agreeing with him and not helping him. This is your point of view, not mine or others who just want to lead a happy, productive life and not talk themselves into a hopeless depression. What if everyone thought like you and your friend?
I’d think they would look at their lives and see most of it is spent working, sleeping, and eating. I don’t want to agree with him but it’s hard to not see our lives and futures as essentially robotic and predictable. Knowing that your life is going to be more or less the same thing day in and out along with a few new things to “break the monotony” is tragic.
I haven’t responded to him because on some level I know what he’s saying is true. You say productive but if that means being a robot for life then death does sound preferable. You aren’t being productive, you are just upkeep in the machine. When you die someone else takes your place. You’ll receive a few special things (birthday greetings, raises, etc) to make you feel like you matter but you don’t. Every other cog gets the same treatment.
Sigh, I can’t really argue with that and it seems like my conventional platitudes don’t have any facts to back them up.
I felt something like that back in my twenties, but then I got out and experienced life. It’s not that hard. Open the paper, or whatever it is you kids do these days, look for things that interest you that involve other people, do them. If you have time to think about the useless of existence, then you have time to help others who don’t have such luxury. Feed them, house them, get them shoes, teach them something you know. Repeat. Life will become interesting.
He often replies with the overall meaningless nature of our existence and that the majority of our lives don’t really matter.
He often replies with the overall meaningless nature of our existence and that the majority of our lives don't really matter.If his depression is solely based on the way he's looking at life right now, chances are he will come out of it but it is difficult for me to know exactly what is going on in his life, day to day. Are you sure he's not suffering from some kind of biochemical imbalance? Maybe he's not being totally honest with you. Anyway, as I said earlier, it seems to me your friend feels powerless to change his life for the better and the danger is this apathy is self-fulfilling in that the more he does nothing to improve things the more apathetic he will become because he will feel convinced he can't change anything. I would say he's fallen into an unhelpful way of thinking. Focusing too much on what he sees as a meaningless existence will reinforce his depression and he needs to look at things in a more positive light by recognizing that there are many rewarding aspects to life, or at least potentially, if only he would seek them out and make them happen.
I felt something like that back in my twenties, but then I got out and experienced life. It's not that hard. Open the paper, or whatever it is you kids do these days, look for things that interest you that involve other people, do them. If you have time to think about the useless of existence, then you have time to help others who don't have such luxury. Feed them, house them, get them shoes, teach them something you know. Repeat. Life will become interesting.I agree with this because if you are having to help others it takes the focus off yourself and your own troubles. His friend should try to look for opportunities to help other people, if possible.
He often replies with the overall meaningless nature of our existence and that the majority of our lives don't really matter.If his depression is solely based on the way he's looking at life right now, chances are he will come out of it but it is difficult for me to know exactly what is going on in his life, day to day. Are you sure he's not suffering from some kind of biochemical imbalance? Maybe he's not being totally honest with you. Anyway, as I said earlier, it seems to me your friend feels powerless to change his life for the better and the danger is this apathy is self-fulfilling in that the more he does nothing to improve things the more apathetic he will become because he will feel convinced he can't change anything. I would say he's fallen into an unhelpful way of thinking. Focusing too much on what he sees as a meaningless existence will reinforce his depression and he needs to look at things in a more positive light by recognizing that there are many rewarding aspects to life, or at least potentially, if only he would seek them out and make them happen. Once again your responses aren't addressing the issue here. I keep telling you it isn't depression. It seems like he's logically worked out that life isn't worth it. You haven't attacked the argument which is what I'm having an issue with. This being a key part that I have stated: You say productive but if that means being a robot for life then death does sound preferable. You aren’t being productive, you are just upkeep in the machine. When you die someone else takes your place. You’ll receive a few special things (birthday greetings, raises, etc) to make you feel like you matter but you don’t. Every other cog gets the same treatment. Your mentions of "improvement" are the life he describes, and I have to agree. That life is the fate of many people. I've known too many that graduate college only to end up in careers they don't like just to make a wage. The you mention vague notions like positives but neglect the bulk of the time we spend while awake. It doesn't seem like a good trade off. He is kind of right, what we do does not matter. The majority of us won't do anything notable or great, we are one in billions. I want to be positive, but I can't ignore facts. Things today seem different, but not much has really changed.
I felt something like that back in my twenties, but then I got out and experienced life. It's not that hard. Open the paper, or whatever it is you kids do these days, look for things that interest you that involve other people, do them. If you have time to think about the useless of existence, then you have time to help others who don't have such luxury. Feed them, house them, get them shoes, teach them something you know. Repeat. Life will become interesting.I agree with this because if you are having to help others it takes the focus off yourself and your own troubles. His friend should try to look for opportunities to help other people, if possible. Except it's wrong, as they say "you can't take a vacation from yourself". The problems remain, the knowledge remains, you can only distract yourself so much.
He often replies with the overall meaningless nature of our existence and that the majority of our lives don't really matter.If his depression is solely based on the way he's looking at life right now, chances are he will come out of it but it is difficult for me to know exactly what is going on in his life, day to day. Are you sure he's not suffering from some kind of biochemical imbalance? Maybe he's not being totally honest with you. Anyway, as I said earlier, it seems to me your friend feels powerless to change his life for the better and the danger is this apathy is self-fulfilling in that the more he does nothing to improve things the more apathetic he will become because he will feel convinced he can't change anything. I would say he's fallen into an unhelpful way of thinking. Focusing too much on what he sees as a meaningless existence will reinforce his depression and he needs to look at things in a more positive light by recognizing that there are many rewarding aspects to life, or at least potentially, if only he would seek them out and make them happen. Once again your responses aren't addressing the issue here. I keep telling you it isn't depression. It seems like he's logically worked out that life isn't worth it. You haven't attacked the argument which is what I'm having an issue with. This being a key part that I have stated: You say productive but if that means being a robot for life then death does sound preferable. You aren’t being productive, you are just upkeep in the machine. When you die someone else takes your place. You’ll receive a few special things (birthday greetings, raises, etc) to make you feel like you matter but you don’t. Every other cog gets the same treatment. Your mentions of "improvement" are the life he describes, and I have to agree. That life is the fate of many people. I've known too many that graduate college only to end up in careers they don't like just to make a wage. The you mention vague notions like positives but neglect the bulk of the time we spend while awake. It doesn't seem like a good trade off. He is kind of right, what we do does not matter. The majority of us won't do anything notable or great, we are one in billions. I want to be positive, but I can't ignore facts. Things today seem different, but not much has really changed. Why are you assuming his point of view is the only possible one to take? Why is it most people lead a productive, fulfilling life without feeling they are living a pointless, empty existence? Has it occurred to you or your friend that you could be the ones that are wrong? You have both convinced yourself that your points of view are unchallengeable, which is why you both cannot release yourselves from this way of thinking. In fact, you are both very unscientific about this because science examines the evidence and then makes conclusions based on this but you and your friend seem to refuse to examine any evidence that might challenge your rigid way of looking at things. You are both simply 'rubbishing' the whole of psychology, which has been developed over many years by many brilliant thinkers and helped many people in psychological turmoil. Don't you think this is a tad presumptuous?
I felt something like that back in my twenties, but then I got out and experienced life. It's not that hard. Open the paper, or whatever it is you kids do these days, look for things that interest you that involve other people, do them. If you have time to think about the useless of existence, then you have time to help others who don't have such luxury. Feed them, house them, get them shoes, teach them something you know. Repeat. Life will become interesting.I agree with this because if you are having to help others it takes the focus off yourself and your own troubles. His friend should try to look for opportunities to help other people, if possible. Except it's wrong, as they say "you can't take a vacation from yourself". The problems remain, the knowledge remains, you can only distract yourself so much. The problems only remain due to the way you and your friend are thinking. Thinking in negative ways can lead to depression because the brain and body are one and they affect one another. Think of it as being in a hole where you cannot see what's outside the hole. Your thinking is like this as you can only see what is inside the hole. You have to somehow get above ground and outside the hole to see the greater reality. Then you and your friend will be okay. You can't take a vaction from yourself but you can take a vacation from the way you are presently thinking.
He often replies with the overall meaningless nature of our existence and that the majority of our lives don't really matter.If his depression is solely based on the way he's looking at life right now, chances are he will come out of it but it is difficult for me to know exactly what is going on in his life, day to day. Are you sure he's not suffering from some kind of biochemical imbalance? Maybe he's not being totally honest with you. Anyway, as I said earlier, it seems to me your friend feels powerless to change his life for the better and the danger is this apathy is self-fulfilling in that the more he does nothing to improve things the more apathetic he will become because he will feel convinced he can't change anything. I would say he's fallen into an unhelpful way of thinking. Focusing too much on what he sees as a meaningless existence will reinforce his depression and he needs to look at things in a more positive light by recognizing that there are many rewarding aspects to life, or at least potentially, if only he would seek them out and make them happen. Once again your responses aren't addressing the issue here. I keep telling you it isn't depression. It seems like he's logically worked out that life isn't worth it. You haven't attacked the argument which is what I'm having an issue with. This being a key part that I have stated: You say productive but if that means being a robot for life then death does sound preferable. You aren’t being productive, you are just upkeep in the machine. When you die someone else takes your place. You’ll receive a few special things (birthday greetings, raises, etc) to make you feel like you matter but you don’t. Every other cog gets the same treatment. Your mentions of "improvement" are the life he describes, and I have to agree. That life is the fate of many people. I've known too many that graduate college only to end up in careers they don't like just to make a wage. The you mention vague notions like positives but neglect the bulk of the time we spend while awake. It doesn't seem like a good trade off. He is kind of right, what we do does not matter. The majority of us won't do anything notable or great, we are one in billions. I want to be positive, but I can't ignore facts. Things today seem different, but not much has really changed. Why are you assuming his point of view is the only possible one to take? Why is it most people lead a productive, fulfilling life without feeling they are living a pointless, empty existence? Has it occurred to you or your friend that you could be the ones that are wrong? You have both convinced yourself that your points of view are unchallengeable, which is why you both cannot release yourselves from this way of thinking. In fact, you are both very unscientific about this because science examines the evidence and then makes conclusions based on this but you and your friend seem to refuse to examine any evidence that might challenge your rigid way of looking at things. You are both simply 'rubbishing' the whole of psychology, which has been developed over many years by many brilliant thinkers and helped many people in psychological turmoil. Don't you think this is a tad presumptuous? Most of the psychological studies had to be thrown out due to lack of reproducibility, which was rather damaging to the field and shook people's trust in psychology. If you are talking about science and evidence then you don't really have much to support the "positive" view. Most people on the planet live in poverty, most individuals work either in retail or corporate world. They spend a large amount of time stuck in one place for the majority of their lives. You haven't given any evidence to discredit his view or prove it wrong, all you have is the same pop psychology nonsense that's just to sell books. In fact you could say your advice is ignorant of the general reality of most people. You can look at middle America and at the factory jobs that aren't coming back. People are trapped since their lives are tied to such things. It's not that his view is unchallengeable, it's just that the evidence when one looks at the world tends to favor his view. That the one who says otherwise tends to be a bit privileged. Your words just don't match the evidence. I can't call him or either because I know he is right, I don't have any evidence to back up the positive platitudes I know.