A bottom up, biological, evolutionary, Earth Centrist perspective

[citizenschallengev4]

@morgankane01

My yoga teacher explains that we are not our body, that we are not our mind, that we must be the conscience, the observer of them and that to be fully conscience, we must be able to detach ourselves from them, at time.

Perhaps from time to time. Besides, this is probably talking about recognizing the Human Mindscape ~ Physical reality divide, but in different words.

But that “we are not our body, that we are not our mind, that we must be the conscience,” that’s worth getting irritated, mind is our consciousness, it is produced by our living body. Imagining that away your mind ? . . .
To me it’s like a broken algorithm. I apologize if that offends.

@lausten

pretty much everything is non-functional to him,

What’s non-functional? If I’m harsh, it’s because we’re living with the results, plenty of progress (smarts) but still next to no recognition for anything beyond ourselves, so much so, we are destroying our global home fast as possible, not the slightest interest in slowing down (wisdom).
That I see as our intellectual heritage - that drives you crazy, I can apologize, but I deal in solid evidence and pragmatic thinking. I’m sometimes a fool, but aren’t we all.

@lausten

Rather than be curious about how to do it or what it is, he just says he tried it once and it was weird, so it must be wrong.

What you mean, tried it once, one doesn’t get there the first try!
Besides I meditate, but no longer seek the bliss or the singularity. I meditate on my breath and insides, or I’ll meditate on a scene, sometimes if I know about the geology of the place I’ll even time-travel.

Let’s just be clear, the “it” I was referring to is the grand seeking of the ultimate bliss, the singularity. Do it. I didn’t mean to discourage the trying, how else can we learn for ourselves. I’m simply sharing what I found there, sent me right back to Earth and living in the now. In that way it was a fantastic lesson.

@lausten

It’s too bad, because his Mindscape thing has some potential, but he’s stuck on the framing of it.

Yeah, well that’s why I keep searching for some serious focused critic, unfortunately it’s usually a fly-swatter I get. I know I’m a tad rough on the edges, try as I might tone is never soothing enough. Am I just a hopeless ass-hole who outta chuck it, or do I just keep on keeping on? That is the question.

@lausten

He had an experience, he named it,

What experience did I name?

@lausten

and now, if you have different words for a similar experience, or if you suggest there are other ways of realizing what is important in this world, he will tell you, you got it wrong.

I’ll suggest you’ve got it backwards, that’s exactly why I started this thread and shared that outline.

I’d love to focus on that, rather than getting distracted by learned distain for humanity’s pre-evolution self-absorbed thinking (even as I can respect their achievements), because they were also sowing the seeds of our mindless drive toward self-destruction.

That is the inbred mentality that nothing out there matters, beyond its utility to us - which is constantly reflected in the way speakers are wording their ideas, and when I point out those inflection points, you just get upset at me.

I’m referring to thinking we are separate from animals and have to seek the source of our consciousness out in the heavens, and such. Giving evolution lip service then going on same as it ever was.

@lausten

In the latest Vervaeke episode this idea that reality is not limited to one perspective, that there is no one framing that can capture it, is explored.

And right there is the point that keeps getting missed by all-too-many, namely that physical reality only has one perspective and one history!

It’s the creatures living within that reality, who are doing the observing and interacting - that have their multiplicity of perspectives.

That is key, sometimes I even hear that enunciated, but not near often enough.

@lausten

In the first 20 minutes he discusses how we interact with symbols. We are drawn to them, for whatever reason, then we focus on them, and the way we let them into our awareness has an effect back on ourselves. Our awareness is expanded, we intergrate that, but it doesn’t end there, there is always more framing to discover, more “reality” if you will.

There’s more to the video. He starts using words like sacred and supernatural and he started to lose me, but then the says those terms are a category mistake. We’ve taken something that crosses all forms of knowledge seeking, attempts to belong, attempts to understand our place, and put labels on them, like a Cross, or astrological symbols, and called those sacred. I’m not saying you, the one reading did that, but someone in your life tried to show you a symbol and tell you that you need to interact with it in a way that brings you to the same conclusion they did.

That’s the mistake. Symbols don’t work that way. Yes, they can open your mind to something you hadn’t thought of before, but that experience is yours, not the symbols. This is true for holy scripture and it’s true for Grateful Dead concerts and it’s true for science. You can know how music affects feelings without getting that same feeling. There’s nothing wrong with that. Your numinous experience is available through something else, something that the Dead Head will probably think is weird.

Here is the other conflict point between L and myself.
For me those last couple paragraphs are only words on top of words. It is the physical world I’ve become attuned to, with Earth sciences being my guide book and my mind doing its best to piece together the evidence I’ve been privy to.

I can’t help that, it’s sad I piss off people. Still, what I’ve presented up there is solid, it’s up for serious critique (as opposed to defensiveness and dismissal) from someone that can relate.