But please, the solution isn’t to endorse a cap on lifespans.
"Cap on lifespans" is not an ethical solution for any situation. However, medical intervention to extend life beyond the body's natural ability to maintain system integrity is immoral and should be prohibited.
The Covid pandemic is a pestilence that puts an end to the life of human bodies - compromised by diseases and old age - that are otherwise kept alive through medical intervention.
If we had done the right thing, there would have been no Covid deaths, no lockdowns and no massive layoffs impacting the welfare of tens of millions of healthy people in America alone.
Personal delusions like this can only be tolerated in small doses. We are the age we are whether we like it or not.
It’s not a delusion that people can and do live happy healthy lives well into their 90s and after reading this thread I see you and Sree full of crap concerning aging, health, and happiness.
Having the retirement age late in life is the only possible way to do it in this kind of society because it allows people to pay taxes for decades and contribute to society in a indirect way for most of their lives.
Working until one dies is not living life. My grandparents started living life after my grandfather retired. They travelled, they had a huge garden, my grandfather built onto their house, my grandmother continued to canned just like she did before he retired, and they kept me much of the summer. They were happy and healthy. I still say your thinking and sree’s about the elderly is a bunch of BS. Maybe you fear being old or you don’t have a healthy old age, I don’t know which, but for many people, it’s enjoyed.
Living beyond 70 is not ok even if you are not a drain on society or a nuisance to your family. People ought to check out when it’s time to retire, like racehorses or commercial airliners that are no longer fit for service. Old folks are not a pretty sight in a world meant for those in their prime.
No, not all people are drain on society. Why do you hate the elderly? You’re thinking is crap thinking and very much not true.
Maybe it’s not cheap to keep people alive, but the majority of people want to live as long as they can and that is where science plays a huge role and socialized medicine helps with the cost. Now if you, thatoneguy and Sree, want to kill off all the grandpas and grandmas and great grandparents, then you go to a an island and build your own Logan’s Run crappy oasis. The rest of us will try to live as long as we can as happy and healthy individuals, even if that means I outlive my grandmother, great grandmother, aunts, uncles, etc and live to be 100 or more. People choose to live and if scientific medicine increases the lifespan of billions of people great! That’s what science is there for- to give people happy, healthy, longer lives. Mentally healthy people do want to die from a plague or any other disease and they shouldn’t have to. What societies should do is have socialized medicine, use science to slow, if not stop Climate Change, keep people healthy (even if it means living to be 137 years old), and certainly not force people to die at an arbitrary age that others, not their bodies set for them. It’s not up to other people if a woman has a an abortion and it’s not up to others to set a stupid arbitrary age of when they want people to go off themselves.
I can’t find the video without commentary, so you’ll just have to read what Lwaxana is saying about “What’s 60?”
I changed my mind, I’ll just copy and paste the section of the script The Next Generation Transcripts - Half A Life
PICARD: Come.
(Lwaxana enters)
LWAXANA: Are you aware these people you are so graciously helping are murderers?
PICARD: I beg your pardon?
LWAXANA: Well the next thing to it. When a person on this benighted little planet reaches the age of sixty, which Timicin is about to do, they're expected to simply kill themselves. Did you know that?
PICARD: Mister Data?
DATA: The people of Kaelon Two are isolationists, almost to the point of being xenophobes. Regrettably, we know very little about their customs.
LWAXANA: Well, I know. Timicin himself just told me. He is supposed to go down there, to his loving friends, be wined, dined, honoured for his achievements and then kill himself. It's a barbaric ritual. The Resolution, it's called. Obviously, you can't let him go, Jean-Luc.
PICARD: I'm afraid I have no choice.
LWAXANA: I don't think you've been listening to me. The man is supposed to kill himself. You don't just let that happen. You don't just turn your back. What's the matter with you!
PICARD: Lwaxana, I'm sorry, but whatever my personal feelings, I have no jurisdiction here. I simply cannot interfere.
LWAXANA: But you have to. In a situation like this, you absolutely have to interfere. You've got to go down there and talk to those people, Jean Luc. Open their eyes, educate them.
PICARD: The Prime Directive forbids us to interfere with the social order of any planet.
LWAXANA: Well, that's your Prime Directive, not mine!
LWAXANA: What do you mean, I can't go down there? Are you telling me that I'm a prisoner on this ship?
TROI: Mother? What's going on? What are you doing?
O'BRIEN: I'm sorry, Counsellor, I'm not sure what to do here.
LWAXANA: Well, I am sure! I am a Betazoid ambassador. I'm a Daughter of the Fifth House, and those people are going to answer to me! So you just energise this damned thing and get me down there!
TROI: He can't, Mother. He has his orders.
LWAXANA: His orders don't apply to me.
TROI: No, they apply to him.
LWAXANA: Don't you try your professional patronising on me, young lady. They expect Timicin to die, don't you realise that? Just because he's sixty! What's sixty? It's nothing.
(Lwaxana bursts into tears)
O'BRIEN: I'll go check the pattern buffers.
(O'Brien locks the controls and leaves)
TROI [OC]: Come on, Mother, let's sit down.
LWAXANA [OC]: I'm sorry, little one. I don't know what's wrong with me. I'm sorry.
TROI [OC]: There's no need to be.
LWAXANA [OC]: But I'm crying. I don't cry.
TROI [OC]: You cried when father died.
LWAXANA: You remember that?
TROI: Of course I remember. We both cried.
LWAXANA: But this isn't the same. Is it?
TROI: What do you think?
LWAXANA: I don't know. I just can't accept that fate will allow me to meet him like this and then take him away. I mean, he's not ill. He hasn't had a tragic accident. He's just going to die, and for no good reason. Because his society has decided that he's too old, so they just dispose of him as though his life no longer had value or meaning. You can't possibly understand at your age, but at mine, sometimes you feel tired and afraid.
TROI: You're feeling very vulnerable. Very mortal, if I may say so. I know you, Mother, and believe me, you will never be one of those who dies before they die.
That’s definitely me- I refuse to die before my time, even if it’s a 100. Needless to say, I was and am on Lwaxana’s side concerning such obscenities as forcing people to die at an arbitrary age. It’s asinine.
Needless to say, I was and am on Lwaxana’s side concerning such obscenities as forcing people to die at an arbitrary age. It’s asinine.
Nobody is forcing people to die at an arbitrary age. Today is the end of summer. Is it arbitrary? And tomorrow is the beginning of Autumn when it's time for the leaves to go. They are still green on the trees but the time has come for them to go.
@thatoneguy I’m a major fan of life extension, however the fear mongering of the COVID-19 pandemic has relied on mortality rates, and most of those stats are in high-risk groups, of which the elderly area big part, and those stats are being used as leverage against much younger and less vulnerable people to control their behavior, and IMO it’s very unfair.
Yes those in high-risk situations need to take special care not to get infected ( with anything ), but their situation doesn’t warrant the massive social controls and business lockdowns of the rest of the population who is far less at risk. It’s just plain wrong.
So please don’t blame the elderly. They’re pawns in a game of biopolitical football. Blame the fear mongers who cherry pick the worst stories to sell news, or were borderline germaphobic to begin with and have bought into the enforcement of germaphobic behavior. Together they drive political demographics that have resulted in measures that have destroyed literally millions of lives and livelihoods, along with our overall quality of life.
It has to stop. So be upset. Even be angry. But most of all, be smart about it. Lobby with businesses to push back against the sweeping lockdowns, fines, and social controls. There are coalitions of concerned business out there. Volunteer. Contact them and show your support. But please, the solution isn’t to endorse a cap on lifespans. That’s a whole Logan’s Run scenario.
The elderly are the ones making the rules so they are the problem.
The elderly are the ones making the rules so they are the problem.
Don’t trust anyone over 30? Personally, I don’t want anyone killing my mother. I want her to get any medical care she needs and hope to see her live well into her 90s, just like her mother, her mother’s sister, and her grandmother. I don’t want her denied care just because she’s 75 with asthma and high blood pressure. No one has any right to decide she needs to go before her time and it’s not her time yet.
Make it time. Pain is bad. There is no pain in the next place.
No! You’re nuts! It’s none of your damn business when someone dies, just as it is none of your damn business if someone gets an abortion. My mother isn’t in pain. What makes you think she is when she’s enjoying her life living it to its fullest? Just because she has asthma and high blood pressure does not mean she’s miserable. She’s not and is quite happy living life and having a boyfriend. She likes her boyfriend and he likes her. What is it of your damn business if she’s enjoying life to its fullest? You are absolutely hellbent on killing people. BTW, is there no other place. This life it, so get that out of your head with your gunho desire to kill people. Such sick mentality you have. Maybe you need to see a therapist or something because your insistence that you make the rule and kill elderly people is pure fascism and Nazism.
I for one am getting very sick of the ageism, racism, sexism, and every other hateful ism that has occurred on this board that I missed. People need to read the rules again about such things. IF it continues, I will again start shutting down threads/conversations, this one included. It’s one things to spew scientific ignorance, but it is another thing to preach eugenics and age limitation of life. This is a cease and desist or I will close this thread and any other like it that gets started after shutdown of this thread. This is not a threat, but a promise. If such things continue, it could possibly be the end of the forum entirely and we really do not want that. I don’t want it.
The elderly are the ones making the rules so they are the problem.
You’re right, kid, the old farts are making the rules right now and that’s why you need to vote this election. You have two choices- three fascist old a$$holes (Dotard, He Who Is Not Worth His Name, and Moscow Mitch) who preach eugenics (see the recent rally up north where he preached about gene and whipping up the racists) OR you can vote for a more compassionate liberal old fart who has, if he croaks while in office, a young woman who is about may age (we’re both in our 50s), old enough to be a president by ancient ancestral rules, can take his place. We need to get about 95% of the Boomers out of office, leaving those like Biden, who are willing to turn the reins over to Xers and Millennials. You have to have the Xers for now, because not all Millennials are old enough to be president. Although, that may change in 2024, because AOC et al will be old enough to run for president (I think), but we have to get the majority of the boomers out of our government by voting. If we don’t vote the old farts out of office this time around, we doomed to fascism and we lose democracy. Maybe you don’t believe we will lose democracy in the U.S., but that is what the Religious Fascist Repugs are going for- destroying democracy in the U.S. and they do have close ties with Putin (believe it or not). We have to vote this election and if the dotard et al stack the Supreme Court, we just better hope democracy wins in the U.S. or we will be a Fascist nation full of racism, xenophobia, hatred to LGBTs, ageism, and sexism etc (unless you prefer all that hatred, even though it is not healthy for anyone).
Maybe you don’t believe we will lose democracy in the U.S., but that is what the Religious Fascist Repugs are going for- destroying democracy in the U.S. and they do have close ties with Putin (believe it or not). We have to vote this election and if the dotard et al stack the Supreme Court, we just better hope democracy wins in the U.S. or we will be a Fascist nation full of racism, xenophobia, hatred to LGBTs, ageism, and sexism etc...
Speak truth like this. We may not be able to keep up with the sheer # of LIES put out by the RepugLIARS. But because we speak truth, we may yet prevail.
