We’ve been over that.
Yes you are the universe and you can trace your roots all the way to the Big Bang, . . . if you want.
But that still leaves you right where you are today, smack in the middle of a material world.
People say many fantastical things, which you should take with a hardy pinch of salt, if you’re trying to figure out the real world. Or hell, for that matter, just to get through this race to our own death’s with a bit of sanity and sense of belonging left in place.
“Except science stuff doesn’t answer the deepest questions and mysteries like who you really are. Some say you are the universe.”
Here are some more questions…
Those are all technically questions, but none of them has an answer. Another question that doesn’t have an answer is, “who am I, really?” (or variations of it.)
You’ll have to accept that not all questions are valid and therefore have no answer (because they are meaningless, not because we don’t know the answer.)
As a product of the universe, you simply exist, just like a particle of interstellar dust that has never and will never come into contact with another piece of matter for the future of its existence, just like an atom of Helium in the atmosphere of Jupiter, and just like a random asteroid orbiting a random star in a random galaxy. Neither you nor any of those things has a purpose. You are all simply products of matter + physics + time. Asking “why” is pointless.
Look at it this way- you make your purpose… it’s not given to you.
Well said.
That doesn’t really address the whole “you are the universe” thing, or how some people say that the body is an illusion, or how when they look at someone else it’s like an empty space. That you are the universe or become the universe is what that Broward meditation is talking about. That our lived experience is the false mind and not who we truly are and only through their meditation will you discover that.
How do you know what questions are valid and what are not, who decides these things? What about the personal experiences of those who went on these “spiritual paths”? What about questions of the self and how neuroscience says there is no location in the brain where a self is situated, so then what do we mean by “my arm”? Are we a little man in the head seeing out through the eyes?
Like I said, too many important questions that science doesn’t have an answer, but apparently these spiritual ones on “nonduality” do.
If YOU ARE the universe, then that would make you everything. IF you are everything then you are alone for there is no “one” else since YOU are it.
It totally addresses “the whole ‘you are the universe’ thing”.
It shows you it’s a non-question with no answer that is pointless to ask and wastes everyone’s time… even those of us explaining that it’s a non-question.
I can only tell you it’s a stupid question so many times before I start to think maybe it’s not the question that’s stupid. (Maybe I am for continuing to lead a parched person to water, only to have them urinate in it.)
But how do you know it’s a non-question? Because you say so?
No. because I have a brain and use it.
Buh bye.
If YOU ARE the universe, then that would make you everything. IF you are everything then you are alone for there is no “one” else since YOU are it.That means that this thought that I'm expressing right now, is actually your thought, but you stored it way over here in the frozen North where I am and recalled it by entering your questions into this forum. That's a really inefficient system. That goes for the billions of other thoughts being thought right now that you aren't accessing and never will and even if you could, you couldn't store all of them in your brain or process them in any meaningful way. The universe doesn't process them either. It has no feelings about your thoughts. It's not a being like you are. Any attempt to equate you with the universe is playing with words.
3point14rat: Sounds to me like you don’t have an answer and are just arbitrarily trying to cop out.
What 3point said was “You’ll have to accept that not all questions are valid and therefore have no answer.” And he explained that with examples and in detail. I don’t blame him for not continuing a discussion with you when you don’t respond to his points but instead dismiss them then turn around and reflect that attitude back on him.
He didn’t respond to my asking how one knows which questions are valid, he just dodged it. His examples didn’t address my point either, so I was justified in calling out that he didn’t have an answer.
You’ve now reduced this conversation to “yes I did, no you didn’t”. You are not addressing what anyone says, you are saying that they didn’t respond.
Yes, Xian, you are right. I did not explain why there is no answer to the question, “why am I here?”
As an atheist I believe in no gods or supernatural powers or stuff like that. This means I see the world operating on natural forces. And that means I treat questions that assume gods or supernatural forces exist, as non-questions.
So I will try to set up another example that you, specifically, can understand. First, I need a tiny bit of information from you: please tell me one thing you 100% do NOT believe exists in the physical universe (eg. unicorns, bigfoot, Lochness Monster, snakes that can play ‘chopsticks’ on the piano, whatever, just promise that your example is iron-clad.) Once I get this tiny bit of info, I will present you with a meaningless question. This is kinda exciting, so make your example a good one!
Hey Lausten,
I sometimes get annoyed repeatedly answering endless questions that are all basically the same. Especially with people who I know put zero thought into what I am saying. But I also don’t mind putting my thoughts into words, because I rarely get to talk about this stuff in real life, and when I do, I want to have my ideas organized and ready. Dealing with bottomless pits like Xian can by super frustrating, but the side benefit is that I take some time to put my answers into words that I can use at a later date on someone who might listen.
It’s like testing instructions you’ve written on some procedure: you think that every step is perfectly noted in perfect detail, until a newbie actually follows your instructions. Then you see how he/she has interpreted them in a different, yet completely valid, way, resulting in either hilarious or disastrous results. My posts on here are like that- I think I’m saying stuff in a way that makes sense, but only when those words are filtered through someone else’s brain, can I have some confidence that I really do make sense to others.
So, please, if I don’t make sense, let me know!!!
Damned. You’re helping making things interesting around here again.
Love it.
Xian, you’ve complained about 3point14rat, yet seems to me he’s doing everything he can to have a civil constructive dialogue with you.
I’m very to curious to read your response to his honest constructive question to you. Make it a real discussion.
3point14rat: "Xian first, I need a tiny bit of information from you: please tell me one thing you 100% do NOT believe exists in the physical universe (eg. unicorns, bigfoot, Lochness Monster, snakes that can play ‘chopsticks’ on the piano, whatever, just promise that your example is iron-clad.) Once I get this tiny bit of info, I will present you with a meaningless question.This is kinda exciting, so make your example a good one!"
So, please, if I don’t make sense, let me know!!!I consider that my job. Actually, as a computer programmer, it is my job. People tell me to program things that don't make all the time. I could write a program that simply prints out numbers that look like a real report and they could sit with them in front of them in a meeting and say whatever they want, but that wouldn't make sense.
Xian is a sort of game for me. If he is a troll, the game is to trap him in a corner of his own making. If not, it’s still the same game, but hopefully that corner will be where he sees a flaw in his own reasoning and gets something out of that. Of course, there’s always that teeny tiny infinitesimal possibility that black is the source of all light and I’ll find the true path to truth, so I got that going for me.
Citizenschallenge - Thanks. Maybe I’m weird, but I think it’s fun to think of this stuff. It’s hard to tell if someone is being genuine or being willfully ignorant, so I act as though they’re honest until some arbitrary line is crossed, and I switch to thinking I’m dealing with forum trash. I love being proven wrong, so hopefully Xian reads and thinks and puts effort into understanding what we are saying.
Lausten - Bring it on. I write my posts during work, and I spend too much time on them. Even so, sometimes I read something I posted a day or two ago and wonder what I was thinking- even I have a hard time following what I wrote, so how could anyone else have a chance? I see your ‘game’ analogy, but rather than a game, I see it as a fun project that either fails (no harm) or succeeds (tons of benefit).
It would be nice to think that people with incorrect beliefs are only harming themselves, but, collectively, they’re the greatest defensible threat to humanity and the earth… by a long shot.
Was it you who mentioned Matt Dillahunty recently? As he says, wrong beliefs lead to wrong thoughts and wrong thoughts lead to wrong actions. Untwisting someone’s wrong thoughts can be a challenge, so getting to something fundamental like this is often a bonus. As esoteric as thinking you are the universe seems, there isn’t much else place to go. A good example of why dealing with it matters is an interview a couple years ago with Presidential candidate Gary Johnson, where he said to forget about climate change, the sun’s going to explode one day anyway. 1.3 million people voted for that. And there are millions more with similar bad logic out there. Getting from there to a philosophy that says, yes, the sun will explode, but meanwhile we should care about what kind of planet our grandchildren will live on, is hard work. Talking to Xian is practice. He’s pretty persistent, so I don’t think he’ll go away even if I slip and insult him. He’s more likely to keep trying different angles on me rather than just walking away.
Ya. Matt Dillahunty is great. I listen to his youtube videos when I’m cooking alone. I just downloaded some podcasts for the first time in my life (on board game design) last week, and when I’m done them, I’ll see if Matt has podcasts. If not, there are likely tons of other sciencey/atheisty type ones.
I don’t think the Xian’s of the world have different angles. They have one direction of movement, and they’re unable/unwilling to deviate. Sadly, it’s a source of pride for many to have a mind so closed that nothing new gets in. My hope is that at least one of them thinks on what we have to say, but I won’t hold my breath.
The leap from believing in the supernatural to being deeply and rationally skeptical of it is huge, and I never assume anyone can make the leap because of my blathering.
But it’s fun and the outcome can be very positive (albeit very, very unlikely.)