We need perspective

There’s a difference between people being forgiven for being a result of their culture, a product of their history, and the things they do being universally wrong according to the accumulated wisdom of all of history, crossing many cultures.

This can be applied to past centuries and to young adults now or even your neighbor.


Perspective relies on knowledge that the culture provides and usually to the exclusion of other beliefs and traditions.
Roger Antonsen explained it well.

What’s that trying to say?


“Mathematics has to do with patterns”

The world of patterns is very different from the world of peoples, even if, as you’ll want to point out, our lives are full of patterns.

Mathematics provides no key to unlocking the secrets of a humanity and the mind.
At best, it can be a tool for better understanding mechanical bio-mechanical aspects of body/brain producing mind.

But it’s worth pointing out that video doesn’t have anything to with the human social mind.
Though it does have a self-evident punchline.

“Understanding something means needing to change your perspective.”

On a side note, once enough new information leads to a better understanding that changes one’s mind - it’s very difficult to go back to previous inferior understanding and inducing amnesia to unlearn all that’s been experienced and learned, to trigger that change in the first place.

I like that… image

It’s an attempt to get off the Merry Go-Round in some of the other threads

Well try it with a paragraph that has some continuity to it.

There’s a difference between
people being forgiven for being a result of their culture,
a product of their history,

Is that supposed to be a defense for remaining on the Merry-go-round?

Google “What’s it like to be a bat” - it’s mind boggling what all you’ll find. Of course I’ve only gone through a fraction of it over the years, but it’s like everyone has copied each others homework, same old word salad.

The matter boils down to whether there are nonphysical, qualitative sensations—like colour, taste, smell, feeling, and emotion—that require experience in order for us to become fully familiar with them. Are there limits to our comprehension of something we don’t actually experience? If so, Mary did learn something new by seeing red for the first time. (source).

I’ve yet seen anyone cut the contrived Gordian knot, with the point that you are your physical body, and all of its senses and your body communicates with itself on all sorts of levels, most of which our conscious mind isn’t aware.

And that this is true of all creatures.

I have yet to notice anyone bring up, that we are evolved evolutionary creatures and that matters in understanding who you or I am. All we get is a dog chasing tail.

A few years after Frank Jackson first presented the ‘Mary’s room’ thought experiment, he changed his mind. After considering opposing viewpoints, he came to believe that there was nothing apart from redness’s physical description, of which Mary was fully aware. This time, he concluded that first-hand experiences, too, are scientifically objective, fully measurable events in the brain and thus knowable by someone with Mary’s comprehension and expertise.

Evolution and biology and physical reality (such as the difference between beholding a forest and looking at a postcard of the same scene.) never enters the argument.

So, when in the land of conjure, why concern oneself with the biological reality of our thinking processes being intimately bound to the body you happen to inhabit, along with the environment you are embedded within?

It’s best not to use riddles if you really want to get off the merry-go-round.

Wait! I don’t think that is necessarily true. We all understand Ken Ham’s Yabba Dabba Doo Land, but we still adhere to Evolution. Meanwhile, those who don’t understand Evolution, not matter how hard you try to explain to them that humans couldn’t have possibly lived and survived during the time of dinosaurs, they still don’t understand to Evolution and cling to Ken Ham’s Yabba Dabba Doo theory, AKA Creationism. We understand the difference between real science and pseudo-science. We stick to the real science, Creationists don’t, because they don’t understand science.

And I’ll bet most of us science appreciating people, can look back on parents, or other loved one’s who opened our young eye to the world and curiosity and rationality.

That’s the tragedy our time, parenting and education matters.

But in our society economics matters more than raising healthy happy helpful children, into intelligent constructive positive adults, and the bright eyes of the toddlers, are dimmed as the years of neglect add up.


Yes, my atheist great uncle (my grandfather’s brother) who was a school teacher after WWII. In WWII he was the medic who decided, on the battlefield, aftermath, who could be saved and who could not. He basically played God and after that he was an atheist. My grandfather and he were always fighting about God and my grandparents and mother wanted me to stay away from him because he was “not right”. Whatever.

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How can a thinking feeling person come out of something like that 'all right." Though he did earn some insights, the rest of us can’t imagine.
I have my retired life long EMT neighbor, sometime I get glimpses into some of the demons haunting him. Kinda makes me glad I didn’t go any further than achieving certification and a half dozen ambulance runs. I wanted to test my mettle, but then came love and my gal gave me an ultimate, and I picked her.

In my mind I want to imagine, the two of you hitting it off well, and that mom not withstanding, you two spent some quality time together.
I hope.

The military denied him the privilege of practicing medicine after the war, thus why he became a school teacher. He loved kids, but yet my grandparents and mother didn’t want me near him. So, it’s my guess even the military didn’t think he was alright to practice medicine.

We did and I adored him and his wife was alway all smiles to me, but when I wandered over to his house, next door to my grandparents, my grandmother got bent about it, dragged me away, saying, “He’s not right” and how I needed to stay away from all the way home. Even when I was a teenager, he gave me warm smiles and I remember once when I was little, my grandfather and he got into it over God’s existence. I was on the living room floor playing, hearing their loud conversation in the kitchen and could see it where I was sitting (they lived in a trailer) because I maybe 7 or 8. When my great uncle got up in anger, ready to leave, he paused before he walked out the door, looking at me with what I remember as sad sympathy, like he felt sorry for me. Rightly so, because I can tell you story of my childhood religious experience. The toxicity was high.

It’s sad to hear that Mriana.

And thank my stars that I never had to deal with that kind of conflict growing up, not that it was perfect, by 18 I was running from home and never looked back. We always had good ol discipline, and I felt the wood cook spoon over my ass more than once, but was also always aware it was nestled in genuine love, and frankly believe I had a sense I had it coming, so it wasn’t the horror scene of parents suddenly flipping out, out of nowhere.

Also I don’t remember our parent ever demeaning us, criticized, sure, pushed us, definitely, but without the poison others must endure.

And their attitude towards religion was splendidly casual.

I appreciate them more with every day.

My parents came from catholic, practising families. They sent us to catechism classes and took us to the office every Sunday.

But, in fact, when i was young, they kept some distance between them and religion.

I became a non believer rather early.

There were other difficulties in my relationship with my father, but religion did not became an issue before he made back a return to it. I was an adult.

My mother tried to raise me by Dr. Spock, with a good dose of Fundamngelicalism. I saw the book when I was like 6 or 7 and said, "I didn’t know Spock was a doctor. She laughed and explained the difference between the two. My grandparents were far right wing Fundies and never took one look at Star Trek. My grandfather was a minister assistant, which made me, their only grandchild, a PC. UGH! If you know anything about PCs…

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Fortunately I don’t.
I only know about good Old World “order must be” and discipline - although the war made my father become an enlighten liberal, so it wasn’t too bad and very antiauthoritarian (the trump era would have exploded his head). Plus, we had the feeling that they really liked us for the little individuals we were. I’ve been a very lucky guy.

OK well, a PC stands for “Pastor/Preacher’s child”. (Priest Child in the Episcopal Church) They can be some of the most screwed up rebellious teens in one form or the other. However, when a parent or grandparent is a minister and even worse if the other is the organist, your screwed, all eyes on you because your the PC and if you even more unlucky as I was, your an only who is paraded in front of the congregation to sing and quote Bible verses, whether you want to or not. You have to do it and you better know your lines or in this case, Bible verses. It’s a horrible experience for any PC of any denomination. In my case, it was the Church of God, (Anderson Indiana, not World). The only thing I kept from those years was being a pacifist. OK so a lot of the Bile has stuck with me too, but I like the pacifist in me more than one who can quote the Bile. So that’s a PC, not privilege character, although I guess you could say it’s that too, but I wouldn’t call it that. My grandmother was the organist and my grandfather was the assistant preacher. The worst.

Yeah that sort if upbringing would have taken me to some very dark places.

Like I said, everyday seems I appreciate my lucky roll of dice a little bit better. Ironically had you met me at 19, 20 ish, my recollections would shock you, Old World tough love, isn’t walk through the daisies, but there’s surely a difference between some hardships and abuse.