**US or China, which is truly democratic?**

American oligarchy vs Chinese ‘consultative democracy’

While scholars conclude that the USA is an oligarchy run by big corporations, China has developed a unique system of “whole-process people’s democracy”. This is how it works.
Aug 16, 2024

By Simon Turner
Participants in the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) in 2018

Who do we want to lead? With genocide ongoing, regional wars brewing, and climate change records breaking, who is a safe pair of hands?

Today a choice exists; an alternative to the US-led international order is being built, with China at its center.

A Western pollster, Edelman Trust Barometer, found China to be the country rated highest globally in terms of people’s trust in their government.

China has held the top spot every year but one since 2018, with a comprehensive trust index of 79 in 2024. The US is down at a mere 46.

The people of the US are at a disadvantage, however. How can their trust in government be strong under a duopoly system that is most convincing when the population is the most polarized? That the governments in such a system based on divide-and-conquer cannot reach China’s approval rating is practically built in.

The November US election was supposed to be the toughest test yet for “lesser-evil” voting. Donald Trump — who was so supportive of Israel he moved the US embassy to occupied Jerusalem, in violation of international law — was to compete against Genocide Joe — who kept the embassy there, while arming Israel as it massacred Palestinian civilians in Gaza.

Instead, Kamala Harris took Biden’s place. She aligns with the Republicans on the genocidal Israeli regime, and today bears responsibility for its crimes, second only to Biden. But we are told she represents change.

According to a famous study co-authored by scholars at Princeton and Northwestern University, citizen participation in the process of US liberal democracy has “little or no independent influence” on government policy.

Anarchist proverb: “Dictatorship is shut your mouth, bourgeois democracy is keep talking” I prefer USA bourgeois democracy to China dictatorship.

In a bourgeois democracy, i don’t risk to be jailed just because i publicly disagree with the leaders.

In which country, nowadays are opponents tortured and murdered, in which country, the sate conducts a genocide against its population, in which country, you need a passport to go from countryside to cities?

I agree about the fact that USA are a very formal democracy, but China is not even one.

In China, it is true that the business is controlled, but for the profit of the party leaders, not of the people.

And so on.

In China :

War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.

If you negate the idea of human rights, you negate the idea of democracy. They are not enough, but they are the first step.

XI Jinping

Xi Jiping and human rights

Hi there. Is it a basic human right to have your own home? How is that working out in USA and france?

It is a basic human right to have shelter, with heat, cooling, and clean water (which is also a human right). It’s also a human right to have healthy food, health care, and clothing, as well as education. The U.S. doesn’t have any of that. The government hasn’t really been trying. Thus, people have lead in their water, as well as other poisons, as well as homeless people, children who go hungry, and less educated people. There are also people going without life saving medications because they can’t afford them. All these things should be basic human rights, but the U.S. has made no effort to insure any of that for anyone unless one is rich.

So why do well to do people in western “democracies” point their fingers at china when they havent even got their own house so to speak, in order

You’re asking the wrong person, but those like the dotard and other repugs start screaming “Communism” if it’s even suggested that we have socialized medicine.

Egghead, you were given facts and asked asked a question, you evade it by asking another question.

I consider that in fact you concede that China is a dictatorship, and that its leaders control economy in their own interests, not the interest of the people.

Point won.

There is a difference between having a right and being able to exercise it.

But if you don’t have the right, you have no chance to exercise it.

There are homeless in China. I don’t trust official Chinese statistics.

A short explanation is that homeless people are not “allowed” to stay in the city, so they go back to their hometown and the problem is avoided.

And firms provide dormitories to theirs workers. These live in very bad cramped conditions, but they are not homeless.

[Homelessness in China - Wikipedia]

[Homelessness in the United States - Wikipedia]

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Before you cast aspersions on me darling, you have come here with me first posting an article for comment and consideration .

The author makes the point

" US politicians know whom they need to please. As the academic study on US oligarchy showed, in Washington’s so-called “representative democracy”, the only ones truly represented are big business."

He then goes on highlight 6 areas of chinese society where citizen participation plays its part and how the economy is directed to the needs of its people rather than the needs of transnationals

China’s system of “consultative democracy”

China’s “thorough cleanup” of corruption

Violence, crime, and surveillance

How China’s elections work

China’s environmental protections and “green GDP”

US imperialism vs Chinese socialism

Have you any counterpoints to these or are you going to just stick to your scripted responses?

Casting aspersions is about the only thing you do. Try engaging in dialog.

“Try engaging in dialog.”

Tries to enter the conversation by casting another aspersion!

With 70 words more than your post, thats very funny

I ahould have used my moderator voice. Quit casting aspersions. Engage in dialog. Or find another forum.

A state which commit genocide, tortures and kill opponents, forbids free press and requires that every citizen believes as a revealed truth in the writings of the supreme leader is a totalitarian state, not a democracy.

That’s propaganda and I proved it by giving facts which for me demonstrate that China is not a democracy.

As long as you don’t demonstrate that my facts are wrong, i will think that that false or true, your facts are irrelevant.

A totalitarian state can be effective, nevertheless, it is totalitarian.

I gave you a hint to avoid finger waving when your pants are down and backyard in disarray. But no, you must stick to the script.

Can :cn: finger wave back to :us: for the totalitarian state markers listed above? Lets see.

Genocide :white_check_mark: clear yes with its rich imperialist wars history and what they are doing in Gaza now.
Torture :white_check_mark: with out debate . Made torture legal

Kill opponents :white_check_mark: right up there in medal contention Which U.S. Political Figures Have Been Assassinated? | Live Science
Forbids free press :white_check_mark: loves free press so much it tried to assassinate julian assange, targets journalists in conflict zones, and bans media from its adversaries such as RT america and Press TV.
Requires citizens to believe in state propaganda :white_check_mark: reds under the bed, red scare McCarthyism treatment for those that arent on the capitalism train.

Add in your scripted labour camp trope :white_check_mark: the country with the largest % of its population locked away in prison condemned to labour camps to make profit for corporate america to the generous pay of 51 cents / hour.

The article isnt really saying China is a true bottom up democracy my dear. Neither china or kleptocratic America is truely a democracy in this regard rather it deals with areas of chinese society where the public is said to be more inclusive and involved in determining and shaping government policies and decisions.

At least we agree on that. That has come up before and it wasn’t clear you thought that.

I would also say the article is an opinion piece, a little loose on the facts.

Some supporting info:

How the Chinese government works

Xi is the core of the seven-member standing committee of the Politburo — they form the innermost circle of China’s governance structure.

While in theory they make decisions by consensus, Xi is the core and not, as they say, the first among equals. But it’s not an absolute dictatorship as the other six are also important.

The seven members are in a 25-member Politburo, making up the pinnacle of leadership power in the Communist Party. Remember, all institutions in China, including the government, the courts and the military, report to the party.

World Report 2020: China’s Global Threat to Human Rights | Human Rights Watch

China’s government sees human rights as an existential threat. Its reaction could pose an existential threat to the rights of people worldwide.

At home, the Chinese Communist Party, worried that permitting political freedom would jeopardize its grasp on power, has constructed an Orwellian high-tech surveillance state and a sophisticated internet censorship system to monitor and suppress public criticism. Abroad, it uses its growing economic clout to silence critics and to carry out the most intense attack on the global system for enforcing human rights since that system began to emerge in the mid-20th century.

Beijing was long focused on building a “Great Firewall” to prevent the people of China from being exposed to any criticism of the government from abroad. Now the government is increasingly attacking the critics themselves, whether they represent a foreign government, are part of an overseas company or university, or join real or virtual avenues of public protest.

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