I hear it said that’s not all they 
So weird having Sherlock disappeared - I was not fan of his, but . . .
never mind.
Except that it’s causing disturbing flashbacks to old German movies and the midnight pounding on the door, and the terror that engendered.
"Blaire said:
*Hate Speech by Jesus
Luke 14:26
If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children, and brothers and sisters, yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple."
Blaire:
Luke 14:26 is not considered hate speech when context is paid attention to. The point Jesus was making was that in order to be his followers, his disciples were required to put parents, spouses, children, and even themselves secondary to their discipleship because that particular discipleship was a serious matter. He expanded on that point at the verses you chose to ignore, namely, Luke 14:27-33.
Simply put, Jesus was using hyperbole when he used the word “hate” at Luke 14:26.
Alter2Ego
“That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.” ~ Psalms 83:18
Now, I know that in the mythology of Jesus, he had some good messages, words to live by, so-to-speak, attributed to him. But this toned-down Luke message that means “followers (are) required to put parents, spouses, children, and even themselves secondary (to their leader)” is still pretty shaky, IMO. Imagine that if someone in modern times like Rev. Jones, eventually of Jonestown had required such of his followers (Oh, he did.) or another self-appointed religious leader did the same thing in a town called Waco.
You think Jesus did the same sort of thing, but doing it first helped his mythology take form and grow over the next couple of thousand years?
Blaire said:
*Violent Jesus
Matthew 10:34-37
Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth, I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother in law and a man’s foes will be those of his own household. He who loves mother or father more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and he who does not take his cross to follow me is not worthy of me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.
Blaire:
You did the same thing with this cherry-picked verse, as happened with your claim about Jesus supposedly giving “hate speech” at Luke 14:26.
Jesus is saying the exact same thing above, except it is in reverse: His disciples must put their discipleship ahead of family and friends–but it is their family and friends that will turn on Jesus’ disciples. This has actually happened to true servants of Jehovah: Their unbelieving relatives turned against them and persecuted them, rather than the other way around. In other words, Jesus is warning his disciples that they should expect to be persecuted by their closest friends and relatives. And this actually has occurred among Jehovah’s servants. Their close relatives and friends turned on them when they became servants of Almighty God Jehovah. I can give you examples of this, if you wish.
“That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.” ~ Psalms 83:18
TimB said:
Now, I know that in the mythology of Jesus, he had some good messages, words to live by, so-to-speak, attributed to him. But this toned-down Luke message that means “followers (are) required to put parents, spouses, children, and even themselves secondary (to their leader)” is still pretty shaky, IMO. Imagine that if someone in modern times like Rev. Jones, eventually of Jonestown had required such of his followers (Oh, he did.) or another self-appointed religious leader did the same thing in a town called Waco.
You think Jesus did the same sort of thing, but doing it first helped his mythology take form and grow over the next couple of thousand years?
TimB:
Please answer the following questions.
QUESTION #1 TO TimB: Where, in scripture, has Jesus Christ ever instructed his disciples to commit mass suicide? Please quote the scripture and identify it by Bible book, chapter, and verse when you reply:
Read the following verses, and then answer the questions that follow. Jesus said the following to his disciples:
“{12} This is my commandment, that you love one another just as I have loved you. {13} No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends. {14} You are my friends if you do what I am commanding you.” (John 15: 12-14)
QUESTION #2 TO TimB: At John 15:12 and 14, Jesus commanded his disciples to love one another. TRUE or FALSE?
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)
QUESTION #3 TO TimB: According to scripture, Jesus died an excruciating death for all humanity, which happens to be the exact reverse of telling people to commit mass suicide on his behalf. TRUE or FALSE?
“{21} In fact, to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving you a model for you to follow his steps closely. {22} He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth. {23} When he was being insulted, he did not insult in return. When he was suffering, he did not threaten, but he entrusted himself to the One who judges righteously.” (1 Peter 2:21-23
QUESTION #4 TO TimB: Does a sinless man dying for all of humanity resemble the mass suicide/murders perpetrated by the false and sinful messiahs, Jim Jones and David Koresh? YES or NO? If your answer is Yes, explain why.
“That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.” ~ Psalms 83:18
This is the sad state of religious argument, where we’ve been stuck for a few hundred years now. It’s widely accepted that one of the factors of the movement in the 1st century was a belief in the apocalypse. By “widely accepted”, I don’t mean there is consensus, because there is no consensus. The people who think they know what Jesus meant are sitting in the pews. Some people who claim to be scholars might believe they know, but we can’t tell them from the people who are lying about it to make money off of those people. The honest religious scholars will tell you that they don’t even know who wrote the scriptures, let alone what they really thought.
They didn’t have Senators in Rome who could be called in to Jerusalem to investigate the legitimacy of the movement. They didn’t have independent reporters.
In my opinion, many of the people who were reading Paul’s letters and then the gospels were honestly trying to figure out how to live in an occupied land and helping each other and trying to spread their message of compassion to their occupiers. I think part of the reason the movement failed is that they used the language of the Torah, one of prophecy and human sacrifice. You can see it in the later letters, the ones that are probably written by people of the generation after Peter and Paul. They are asking when Jesus is coming back. Their friends are dying before heaven has arrived on earth, and they want to know what is going to happen to their souls. These are the same skeptical questions people ask now.
Alter is probably going to object, saying that the movement didn’t fail. It was nothing but another small group of people with their ideas of who God was for 380 years. It wasn’t until a Christian became emperor of the failing Roman government, cherry picked the scripture that was lying around, and put the full force of his military behind it that it began to grow in to what we know now.
@Alter2Ego said,Statements from the bible, True or False?
In what sense is the Bible false?
Alter2, I am not going to find the Bible verses that report the violent deaths of almost all of the disciples. I am not going to cite all of the historical events in which persons died and killed in the name of Christianity. Jones and Koresh were also supposedly following the mythology of Jesus. But the poor saps that followed them, did so with faith that these leaders were of more importance than the lives of family and friends, in much the same way that you say Jesus proclaimed he must be #1.
I also am not arguing the mythology of Jesus. It is a nice story in some ways. But it is just a story. It would be more entertaining to argue about the mythology of Game of Thrones.
Question 1 What did the White Walkers represent in the story?
Question 2 Did Arya ever truly lose her self-identity when in the indoctrination of the faceless? i.e., was she truly ever “no one”?
Question 3 Who was the true inheritor of the throne, by birthright?
Question 4 What eventually made the difference in who gained the Throne, birthright, integrity, wealth, military power, or having the best narrative?
Sree
Hi Alter2Ego,
Most Ivy League Biblical scholars do Not believe in supernatural Jesus. The bible is forged. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did Not write any of the gospels. They were written by unknown authors. Less than 2% of the population could read or write during that time period. There are Zero first hand accounts of Jesus. The first gospel (Mark) was written approximately 80 years after Jesus death. If wasn’t for Constantine and the Nicea Council Jesus would never have reached divine status.
Research the Gnostic Gospels. In 1945 a peasant in Nag Hamadi found a jar of papyrus. These 52 authentic documents never made it into “The Bible”. Emperor Constantine determined they were heretical & wanted them burned! Luckily, the monks hid them in a cave instead. They consist of the Secret Gospel of Mary Magdalene, The Secret Gospel of Thomas, The Secret Gospel of Judas,…etc. Elaine Pagels is the Professor of Religion at Princeton Divinity. Please consider reading her book.
Professor Baden, Yale
Professor Avalos
Professor Ehrman
You shouldn’t appeal to someone two thousand years old to do the right thing. You should do the right thing because it’s the right thing to do.
Smile and be kind to one another. No Gods Required ?
Why am I in moderation?
Great Christmas “sermon” Blaire. Our spam filter stops a lot of junk, unfortunately it scoops up good posts too.
“In moderation”
I get this message often because I post a lot of links, but the system does eventually allow the post if the link is safe. it may take several hours and reloading (not reposting) the page.
When a post disappears completely, it is usually due to trying to edit a post and the system seems to consider it a duplicate posting. However if you make a copy in your "wordpad’', you may be able to repost it after waiting several hours (reloading the page) or the next day.
Best is to make a copy of any substantial post and double check for possible causes for rejection, in case the system gets picky about.
When linking I try to separate the addy from the “quoted” portion and copy/paste it as part of regular text.
Main trick is to give the system plenty time to digest all large posts and perform edits before posting. First time posts usually do pass. It is in the editing that the main hang-ups seem to occur.
Pretty good assessment their Write4. Mriana are part of that system. They come to my email, so I keep an eye on that and clear them when I see a regular member. If I see “Keto diet” in the title, I just leave them!
Alter2Ego to TimB:
QUESTION #1 TO TimB: Where, in scripture, has Jesus Christ ever instructed his disciples to commit mass suicide? Please quote the scripture and identify it by Bible book, chapter, and verse when you reply:
QUESTION #2 TO TimB: At John 15:12 and 14, Jesus commanded his disciples to love one another. TRUE or FALSE?
QUESTION #3 TO TimB: According to scripture, Jesus died an excruciating death for all humanity, which happens to be the exact reverse of telling people to commit mass suicide on his behalf. TRUE or FALSE?
QUESTION #4 TO TimB: Does a sinless man dying for all of humanity resemble the mass suicide/murders perpetrated by the false and sinful messiahs, Jim Jones and David Koresh? YES or NO? If your answer is Yes, explain why.
TimB said:
Alter2, I am not going to find the Bible verses that report the violent deaths of almost all of the disciples. I am not going to cite all of the historical events in which persons died and killed in the name of Christianity. Jones and Koresh were also supposedly following the mythology of Jesus. But the poor saps that followed them, did so with faith that these leaders were of more importance than the lives of family and friends, in much the same way that you say Jesus proclaimed he must be #1.
I also am not arguing the mythology of Jesus. It is a nice story in some ways. But it is just a story. It would be more entertaining to argue about the mythology of Game of Thrones.
Question 1 What did the White Walkers represent in the story?
Question 2 Did Arya ever truly lose her self-identity when in the indoctrination of the faceless? i.e., was she truly ever “no one”?
Question 3 Who was the true inheritor of the throne, by birthright?
Question 4 What eventually made the difference in who gained the Throne, birthright, integrity, wealth, military power, or having the best narrative?
TimB:
I asked you four direct questions, which you are now dodging. Until you answer my questions, do not expect me to answer any of yours.
Alter2Ego
“That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.” ~ Psalms 83:18
Alter2Ego
Blaire said:
Hi Alter2Ego,
Most Ivy League Biblical scholars do Not believe in supernatural Jesus. The bible is forged. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did Not write any of the gospels. They were written by unknown authors. Less than 2% of the population could read or write during that time period. There are Zero first hand accounts of Jesus. The first gospel (Mark) was written approximately 80 years after Jesus death. If wasn’t for Constantine and the Nicea Council Jesus would never have reached divine status.
Blaire:
“The bible is forged,” you claim. Prove it by providing credible evidence, please.
Interestingly, it didn’t bother you that the Bible was supposedly forged when you posted your out-of-context scriptures in your Opening Post, two of which I have already debunked. What was your intention in attempting a smear campaign against Jesus Christ, with the aid of a book you believe is forged, might I ask?
BTW: I will debunk the other out-of-context verses from your OP shortly.
Alter2Ego
“That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.” ~ Psalms 83:18
“The bible is forged,” you claim. Prove it by providing credible evidence, please.What would accept as credible evidence? There are two very good sources above, but you would need to study them to become the kind of person who can tell a forged passage from one that is at least written by the claimed author. Then, there is the question of telling a parable from an historic account. What evidence would you need from me to prove that Jesus was not born of the Virgin Mary?
Hi Alter2Ego,
The vast majority of us on this forum were raised Christian. Personally, I was a devout Christian for over 40yrs.
You said “Prove the Bible is forged by providing credible evidence”. It is obvious you put forth Zero effort into watching the attached links. There are thousands of gods to worship, I deny 1 less God than you.
Also, most theoretical physicists believe the world was created billions of years ago by a process called MTheory.
Blaire said:
Hi Alter2Ego,
The vast majority of us on this forum were raised Christian. Personally, I was a devout Christian for over 40yrs.
You said “Prove the Bible is forged by providing credible evidence”. It is obvious you put forth Zero effort into watching the attached links. There are thousands of gods to worship, I deny 1 less God than you.
Blaire:
I asked you a direct question, which you are now dodging, as follows:
“What was your intention in attempting a smear campaign against Jesus Christ, with the aid of a book you believe is forged?”
I am still waiting for your evidence that the Bible is forged. I am not interested in empty links. Simply write your evidence within your next post, while including the weblink to your source so that I can confirm what your source said.
Alter2Ego
“That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth.” ~ Psalms 83:18