There is no cause for existence to exist - Julius Fann, Jr

The purveyors of the Way of Negation here, it is clearly seen, live by a standard amendment of effect criterion requiring that abstract assertion be proved subjectly with the thought proof of what they require is inefficacious. But this standard presents a number of perplexities beginning with their belief of effects is the characterization of a nothingness birthing itself into something. This is illogical reasoning which makes no sense because there is simply no foundation for naturalness to be found. “Nowhere. None” because life, which is the object of Being to be fruitful and multiply subjects must have a point of origin. No religion, philosopher, thermonuclear fusion or action anywhere can sustain themselves without cause.

Effect of anything existing in the universe out of nothingness is a faery tale because there is no logic for existence to exist. To expound further, two questions were asked of the purveyors selling effect before the cause, one is immaterial because it is swallowed up in the question, which after all the babbling and theories provided as evidence, not proof, to denounce “The origin of man is Spirit,” not one, I repeat, not one would deal with: “what is the cause of cause?”
This question was ignored, or dodged, for the simple reason there is no logic for nature selection because there is no logic these purveyors reasoning, and links provided, and theories given could reach to explain There is no logic for existence to exist, which nilillate all of their effect dialogue before to cause. To be sure,

What is the measurement of space? What instrument is used to gauge space? And what is space? must be the question which proceeds the question above. Of course it is known light is the measurement scientist used to measure space distance between two points, but light does not measure space per say, because it has found no logic of cause for space. There is no such thing as space. All which we deem as space is filled, not with abstractness, but the building block of the visible and invisible. This building block is known as Consciousness, and wheresoever there is Consciousness, all space and voids are filled with the thought-life of the forms of that Consciousness, visible and invisible. Yet still, the contention here for all the minds participating in this conversation leans on these minds giving human logical reasoning and facts as to why existence is when there is no logic or reasoning obtainable by dirt minds to explain existence when there is no logic for existence to exist. To be sure, when your mind takes you there in abstract ability, or in normal terms, that mind is there in Consciousness, and where Consciousness is, there is not only a fulfillment of that which is deemed spatial, but Life. What Life? The Life of the mind that is filling that space by being there, and that is Spirit.
THERE IS NO LOGIC FOR ANYTHING IN THIS UNIVERSE TO EXIST. To be more precise, there is no logic to existence. Now this means all that exists in the universe should not be, and so, to deal with the effect of nature selection, will always lead one to deduct on that which has no meaning. Let’s step back from all our reading, personal analysis, and interpretations and ask ourselves what is? What is is there is no logic to creation, therefore, thereis nologic to the universe nor mankind. Being there is no logic to be found for creation nor the universe, then that which occupies the universe has no logic to exist inclusive of individual man. And being one cannot find intellectual reasoning, nor comprehension for existence, then there is no logic for that which should not be. There is no logic or reasoning for the existence of the universe. Should this not be true, give cause of evidence to establish such logic and reasoning.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

And to whom is this addressed?

I am aware of a few theories for how this physical universe came to exist. I don’t know which one is better, but the people who have an opinion also say they aren’t sure, so I’m not worried about it. I am worried about the people who put things in capital letters, saying they do know, saying they have a logical argument for there not being logic since no logic argument for it exists. Not logical. That’s what worries me.

And therefore we are going to invent an even more incredible supernatural causality?

That word salad is not worthy of countering. Too many mystical assumptions buried in that illogical argument. Why don’t you try to start with some hard scientific facts instead of some unanswerable imaginary speculations of much greater complexity than a simple acceptance that a Causal Dynamical Triangulation has already been proposed as a possible alternative to the Classical Unified Field Theories.

In case you are not familiar with CDT,

Causal dynamical triangulation (abbreviated as CDT ) theorized by Renate Loll, Jan Ambjørn and Jerzy Jurkiewicz, is an approach to quantum gravity that like loop quantum gravity is background independent.

> This means that it does not assume any pre-existing arena (dimensional space), but rather attempts to show how the spacetime fabric itself evolves.

There is evidence [1] that at large scales CDT approximates the familiar 4-dimensional spacetime, but shows spacetime to be 2-dimensional near the Planck scale, and reveals a fractal structure on slices of constant time. These interesting results agree with the findings of Lauscher and Reuter, who use an approach called Quantum Einstein Gravity, and with other recent theoretical work.

and proof:

Everyone has had their say, and now I am having mine. You see, this entire dialogue and defacing of truth, not facts for facts changes when one moves a tad left or right and their angle of observation changes. What does not change, however, is all the things behind the uvea which are the reality one lives and dies with. What one lives and dies with is found on the perimeter of zero which is the circle of an illusion , for Zero has nothing in its middle, and nothing beyond the endless visible line which makes one aware that the zero exists.

The continuous line of the circle is all that exists. The zero nor the line has a beginning nor end.
All that the human mind is aware of concerning zero’s existence is a line of matter which finds definition to exist because it is defined by the invisible unknown substance within and without the visible definitive line.

All within and without the definition of the line is the cause of the line’s existence in the awareness of the human consciousness by invisible thought waves. These thoughts are the Spirit laws permeating the line which makes up the zero. All thought waves have Spirits and need no intent to be anything other than what they are. This is their purpose to be. These thought waves are omnipresent. E.g., sitting in an empty room with no cognition of these omnipresent waves would have the human mind believe there is nothing there by the sitter. However, play a receiver in the room and plug it into an electrical outlet and suddenly, as if by magic , sound appears, and should one have a television receiver, images appear. All creation existed in the consciousness of omnipresent Consciousness within the empty room all the time. For them to find existence there had to be a thought to initiate a cause to bring sound and images to life within the human consciousness. The natural selection was Thought, and Thought which had no logical reason of intent except by the invisible, illogical wave impulse which could not be defined by the human mind.

There is nothing any of the purveyors here, or in any of the topics I have posted presented by logic, hear say, links, tapes, books, or essays, infinite math presentation that bring to the attention of others readers, or the world itself WHAT THE CAUSE OF CAUSE IS which will back them up so they can say, look, read, listen, see for yourself the cause for creation, and all within it, including self, is BECAUSE OF THIS. It has not been done by anyone here who passes off what I present as illogical without any footing to foundation such. What is the cause of the cause is the question no one here has been able to recognize, and until it is recognized and dealt with thoroughly, all their babbling is like spitting in the wind, for theories and concepts just doesn’t meet the task of closure.

The question is what is the cause for the cause of natural selection, and better yet, for the effect of anything in the known universe?

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

Really ? Apparently you have never heard of sensory deprivation chambers.

Trust me, they are not lead lined but just soundproof to provide a totally silent environment.

I’ll give you 3 days before you go completely mad.

Restricted environmental stimulation therapy (REST)[edit]

There are many different numbers of basic methods of restricted environmental stimulation, including therapy (REST), chamber REST, and flotation REST.

Chamber REST[edit]

In chamber REST, the subject lies on a bed in a completely dark and sound-reducing (on average, 80 dB) room for up to 24 hours. Their movement is restricted by the experimental instructions, but not by any mechanical restraints. Food, drink, and toilet facilities are provided in the room and are at the discretion of the tester, who can communicate with the participants using an open intercom. Subjects are allowed to leave the room before the 24 hours are complete; however, fewer than 10% actually do because they find the chamber so relaxing.[[11]]

(Sensory deprivation - Wikipedia)

Chamber REST affects psychological functioning (thinking, perception, memory, motivation, and mood) and psychophysiological processes.

Psychedelic effects[edit]

Studies have been conducted to test the effect of sensory deprivation on the brain. One study took 19 volunteers, all of whom tested in the lower and upper 20th percentiles on a questionnaire that measures the tendency of healthy people to see things not really there, and placed them in a pitch-black, soundproof booth for 15 minutes, after which they completed another test that measures psychosis-like experiences, originally used to study recreational drug users.

Five subjects reported seeing hallucinations of faces; six reported seeing shapes/faces not actually there; four noted a heightened sense of smell, and two reported sensing a “presence of evil” in the room. People who scored lower on the first test experienced fewer perceptual distortions; however, they still reported seeing a variety of hallucinations. Many studies have been conducted to understand the main causes of the hallucinations, and considerable evidence has been accumulated indicating that long periods of isolation aren’t directly related to the level of experienced hallucinations.[[19]]

(Sensory deprivation - Wikipedia)

Schizophrenics appear to tend to experience fewer hallucinations while in REST as compared to non-psychotic individuals. A possible explanation for this could be that non-psychotic individuals are normally exposed to a greater degree of sensory stimulation in everyday life, and in REST, the brain attempts to re-create a similar level of stimulation, producing the hallucinatory events.[20]

According to a 2009 study published in the Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease, the hallucinations are caused by the brain misidentifying the source of what it is currently experiencing, a phenomenon called faulty source monitoring.[21]

A study conducted on individuals who underwent REST while under the effects of Phencyclidine (PCP) showed a lower incidence of hallucination in comparison to participants who did not take PCP. The effects of PCP also appeared to be reduced while undergoing REST. The effects PCP has on reducing occurrences of hallucinatory events provide a potential insight into the mechanisms behind these events.[20]

Why do we hallucinate in sensory deprivation?

Just 15 minutes of sensory deprivation can induce vivid hallucinations, according to researchers. … The study concluded that the brain has a need for sensory patterns , creating them when none exist. The hallucinations are an example of ‘faulty source monitoring’, where the brain misattributes the source of sensory input. 30 Jan 2019


This is a topic that interests me, since I exist. I don’t know who you are referring to as “everyone who has had their say”, because many people keep examining this. We are not done with this conversation by a long shot. “We” being all sentient life.

Zero is a math thing. There is nothing in math about a perimeter of zero. Very poetic, but you aren’t defining anything here that we can grapple with. Your next sentence has “unknown substance”, so I guess you don’t know either.

But then suddenly you do know. The illusion caused an unknown that caused a thought, and somehow, you now know the law. This is what every guru and guy in a funny hat has said throughout history. Some of them may have thought they were being genuine, but you can’t separate them from the charlatans.

A friend of mine has a bumper sticker, “The meaning of life is to live.” Sums it up in a nutshell.

Then you go on with a variation on “First Cause”, not addressing it, just claiming no one else has addressed it. That’s not helpful.

Saw the dance of every mode of denial of Causation today. Saw effects being pushed up a mountain with the labor of a mirage while thinking in a hypnotic trance which blinded them to the reality they placed the true power which would, with ease, pull effects up the mountain with no difficulty had effects placed Causation at the front instead of behind. Which is to say “a penny wise and a pound foolish.”

Now this leads me to acknowledge a story of yesterday, and comprehend: Darkness has no power to stop or change the world of light. Darkness does not stop the blind from achieving victory, it implodes and sucks its servants into the void of nothingness - Julius Fann, Jr


When does one come to the point where they think they are grown, and believe they can inevitably go out in the world and face Goliath in battle, as did the boy David in Scripture, ignorant to the fact the Philistine giant to be met on the battlefield is the giant conditions, circumstances, and situations self-righteous thinking and the human ego has place them in. You see, the flesh man, the intellectual man, the man of dirt and stardust saw himself as the root of the tree which the body grows, branches, limbs, leaves, and fruit. However, his universal human mentality is a glass darkly, and man totally ignores the roots of the tree and all the tree produce comes from an invisible source within the dirt the tree is planted in. Moreover, man does not understand that the roots of the tree absorb all the mineral and chemical elements and energy within that which it is planted in, even the poison. Back to the story.

The boy David, in the reading, after discarding Saul’s armor chose five stones out of the brook before he was to face Goliath. But what is underlying is the power of the boy David’s faith, obedience, service, prayer, and Holy Spirit the five stones represented. David never relinquished his power what the Philistines believed was their source of strength

These five elements, combined, became the One unit stone of David’s conscious energy needed to overcome Goliath and send the Philistines running. The underlying truth here is “God in the midst of thee is mighty…Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; for the battle is not yours, but God’s.” Zeph.3:17 – 2 Chron.2015.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

I still say he’s pedalling his religious beliefs.

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Language herein this thread dealing with belief, always runs off assumption beliefs not standing on a concrete base. Beliefs are not the truth. Nor can belief be proved by any individual or group beyond relative assimilation. And nature and nurture only set a course of expectation which excludes the law of inevitability, in our lives, because of the repetitive continuum, which occurs in this dimension of awareness and teaching, is a simulation hypothesis. Any belief can be changed by a change of thought. Not saying nature and nurture are not influential to paths individuals take, but to define their role-play is an unsolvable mystery.

Philosophy is not categorized by any philosophical logic and reasoning from a specific period, era, nor individuals assumed to be an original thinker when what is presented was issued into the bowels of creation by the Spirit of all who don the robe receptive to thought. This moots any person’s thought that a human being is of original wisdom which may be introduced here. In the words of an infamous protagonist: “Wow! Really? Who knew”?

Common sense is wisdom and knowledge when experience, objectified of common sense is the devil in detail. In this veil, subjective reasoning is the product of that objective seed which not only bud the language of wisdom and knowledge, but also the psychological philosophies which become categorized by individual partial beliefs, which they think is a higher form, and correct tools for teaching and educating the populace and children. There is no evidence of such beyond relativism.

To be sure. In depth, philosophy, psychiatry, psychology, cults, religious orders, and all human organizations have never cured any attitude, or traits concerning human behavior in society. They have painted over the Initial Cause and never eliminated the core of dual continuous opposed thinking which prompt false moral, and immoral behavior. Nothing in the human cesspool of human thought can claim God is dead or alive with evidence, for God is objectified, in time, space, distance, and three dimension matter by subjective beliefs, images, and theories which have no foundation other than human thought.

Life is the manifestation of Spirit. Man is the instrument of Spirit’s nature and experience, and the Soul which carries life’s tune, tone, and vibrations being expressed. The artistry of man is always confused when he attempts to find his place as the expression of life’s invisible form outside the invisible authenticity of Spirit’s sustenance as all substance and essence of indivisible life. Indivisible life is the form of Spirit’s body which find entrance into the daily living of men through inspiration of music, poetry, creative writing, love, faith, hope, religion, philosophy, strength, courage, endurance, and a knowing conviction that the law of the Spirit of life is greater than one’s self.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

This is where you are completely off track. Of course, man understands that the tree roots absorb all the mineral and chemical elements within that which it is planted.

But apparently, you do not understand that the green parts of plants and trees are the primary source of energy production from sunlight by a process called photosynthesis.

Carbon cycle

The capture and release of carbon dioxide (CO2) by the forest is the net result of many biological processes.

The green parts of plants perform the first and most important step in the carbon capture via the photosynthesis. Plants can use the energy from sunlight to transform the atmospheric carbon dioxide into organic molecules. These molecules become the building elements for growth and the basic material to maintain existing components of vital functions. Roughly half of the dry biomass of plants is made up of carbon molecules.

Roots and soil

Trees may allocate almost one-third of the total biomass to the roots. Roots provide the physical anchorage of the tree to the soil and its main activity is the absorption of water and inorganic nutrients. The uptake and transport of ions, together with growth and maintenance of roots themselves need energy, and thus, root respiration releases CO2 to the soil and into the air

In addition to plant roots, a complex soil microbiota lives below ground. Their activity results in the release of carbon dioxide to the soil, which flows out to the atmosphere. More than half of the total respiration in the soil may be respired from this soil microbiota, which is responsible for the decomposition of litter and in general, all dead organic matter in the soil. Soil temperature and moisture heavily influence the activity of roots and microbes. Soil respiration is highest in warm and moderately moist soil.

If you are going to invoke science in your poetry, you are still required to remain factual.

p.s. Even the uptake of water and chemicals from the soil is via a process called “transpiration” . It is the leaves and the microtubule network within the leaves that make these processes possible.

Always be respectful to the scientists who have dedicated lifetimes in studying and describing natural phenomena. Any dismissal of their work is a sign of careless thinking.

What does that mean?

Did you mean conceptualized?

What exactly is that?

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Yeah, exactly and that’s why I say you are peddling your religious views/beliefs. You can’t prove any of this nor can you prove you are a gnostic. There is no gnosticism within your tonic language.

It’s odd isn’t it? In the middle of his long posts, if you can interpret his words, he says something to the effect of “it’s all relative” and “no one can prove any of this”. Which is what we say, all the time.

I have heard that type of argument identified as “wordsalad” … :green_salad:

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Very odd and why I say he’s peddling his religious, which he calls “truth”.

And there it is!

There’s that word and accusation that we’re “defacing truth”. What truth?

Talking about “spirits” again. I could continue, but if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck…

Every single thread Jufa has started on CFI forums is nothing more than peddling his religion.

Word salad of his religious views. I don’t think anyone here can reason with him and get him to talk rationally and scientifically.

There is no cause for existence to exist - Julius Fann, Jr

How on earth do you know this?

p.s. On a spiritual level that is an atheist perspective.

I know. he probably feels he’s told us what this “truth” is.

He may feel he did, but it was just gibberish.

Pointing to the moon is metaphorical when the image is on the -finger - of the pointer and does not reach beyond into impulse engulfed in the vision. Get rid of image, any and all images, or Jericho Walls, or seven chakras, or the ten sephirot, or whatever personal vortexes which keeps one in meta consciousness, and you get rid of illusions and mirages which are the life force of human metaphors. Men will not, however, rid themselves from the hypnosis of idealism even when, in the final analysis, their very soul rejects the platform which cannot withstand the torrent reasoning which nullifies the absurdity of the human minds presentation of man’s belief in facts that disappear experimental discover realisty of facts previously retained in mind dissolve when probing into said facts brings to life another world, and universe, such as what happened with the splitting of the atom and Cern’s accelerators and experiments which keep eliminating mind’s physical assertive beliefs by becoming smaller and smaller, and worlds and cosmos keeps imploding. And just as no one here, which does not exclude other living, will not agree with the POV’s I have presented, no one here can give answers of truth as to the Cause for creation to exist, nor Cause as to how thought of natural selection and Creationism came to be anything other than beliefs covered by nothingness of deterministic idealism.

Today is the burial of both ideals, for you see every individual has traveled and learned to walk, grasp, understand, comprehend, act, and react entirely within the domain of their direct living, which I or anyone reading could ever intrude upon. No one participating or reading, irrespective of what they have garnered in mind, can prove to any other living person they believe unconditionally in anything, not even the life they demonstrate and live. It is always self perception which individuals accept or reject. No one can prove their perception to anyone, they can only find those of like mind to agree with aspects of what is believed…

Going beyond that, we all serve and worship the exact same thing intellectually… "AND THAT IS AN IDEA. There are no SUB TERRAINS to IDEA, just as there are no heavenly heights, THERE IS ONLY THE IDEA. Where we take that IDEA, in our bubble does not negate the truth that it is the IDEA which encircles the bubble of our living. And when we break through the bubble of our ignorance, we’ll realize our limits were the ceiling of the bubble of ignorance we were brain-washed to believe. [emphasis mine].

The IDEA is the dream. Dreaming is the activity of the IDEA. The dreamer is the carrier of the IDEA, but if this is not known, then the dream becomes the bubble of illusion of ignorance we have enslaved ourselves within by thinking the bubble is all there is.

'we therefore commit this body to the ground, earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust; in sure and certain hope of the Resurrection to eternal life.

Never give power to anything a person believes is their source of strength - jufa

Don’t hold your breath on that speculative musing… :thinking: