In a way they do. Without external stimuli to trigger neurochemicals in the brain, you won’t have feelings of awe and wonder, happiness and joy, sadness/grief, etc. Of course, when neurochemistry is off, you may have depression or bipolar or some other sort of mental illness, that may need medication. Thus, if nothing causes you to feel happy and you’re always depressed and feel there is no meaning or purpose to life, then you may need to see a psychologist and/or psychiatrist.
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I don’t really know. But my guess is that, based on that thread, that we do things to ourselves because it’s not the thing making you or me feel.
Like if someone pays someone else a compliment, the compliment doesn’t make them happy it’s their beliefs and programming, etc. Repeat that for just about everything.
I want to think they’re wrong but it’s hard when it SEEMS like evidence is everywhere and I don’t know what it means or how to feel or what to do. Most days everything is muted because as soon as any emotion comes up it gets shot down because I think “that’s not making me feel” or “im not really connecting with anything or feeling any bond, it’s just made up by me”.
Not that kind of feeling, emotions. You sound like those people on the thread who kept saying as long as you have a nervous system when they know damn well what I mean by feelings.
Psychiatry never did anything for me, same with therapists. I’m highly doubtful they work.
That said how can it be the things themselves when they don’t make everyone feel the same way, if it came from the thing then everyone would feel that way. But instead two people can feel differently about the same thing. Wouldn’t that mean it’s not the thing?
And…now I’m bummed out again. Thought I got past this but I guess not.
On a side note depression is just reality. If you feel there is no meaning or purpose to life, you’re right.
You may want to try a sensory deprivation chamber. Perhaps under supervision.
It may show you the difference between external stimulation and total absence of external stimulation.
The differential equation may just show you what you have been missing.
Don’t stay too long in the chamber because your brain may begin to hallucinate.
Everything You Need to Know about Sensory Deprivation Tank Therapy
Do you have hallucinations in a sensory deprivation tank?
Many people have reported having hallucinations in a sensory deprivation tank. Over the years, studies have shown that sensory deprivation does induce psychosis-like experiences.
A 2015 study divided 46 people into two groups based on how prone they were to hallucinations. Researchers found that sensory deprivation induced similar experiences in both the high- and low-prone groups, and it increased the frequency of hallucinations in those in the high-prone group.
Will it make me more creative?
According to an article published in 2014 in the European Journal of Integrative Medicine, floating in a sensory deprivation tank has been found in a handful of studies to increase originality, imagination, and intuition, which can all lead to enhanced creativity.
Know we don’t. This has been the problem from the beginning. You have some notion of what feelings are that doesn’t fit with my understanding. You talk about them as something separate from you, something you could control if you could find the right dials and levers. Feelings don’t work that way. They are directly connected to your senses. Your thoughts can change based on there being a bad smell in the air. It’s why people can be manipulated to hate.
You are repeating things now almost verbatim from months ago. We can’t help you if you do that. We aren’t a therapy group. Or, maybe you are a troll and you have run out of scripts to post. There is no way for me to know. I have a life and don’t have time to figure you out. Since you are repeating, just go back and read my earlier responses.
Except a lot of people understand there is no purpose given to them and aren’t depressed. Because everyone is different.
Feelings don’t come from things, but things are received by our senses, our nervous system processes them, then we think things about them, and those thoughts are related to physical sensations, that is, feelings.
It takes more than the therapist to “fix you”. She can’t do it alone. You have to want it to work and you have to work at it for it to do any good. Otherwise, if you don’t want it and don’t want to work at it, then you’re wasting your time and money. You have to want it.
No, human beings are individuals and react differently. We are not the Borg. I like spinach and Brussel sprouts. Does that mean you should too?
If you have a chemical imbalance in your brain, you might be right, but you may also need medicine. Depression is the common cold of psychology and psychiatry. If you are depressed and it’s long term, you are ill and need medical and psychological help. That doesn’t mean life is meaningless. Life has the meaning you give it, but if your depressed, you aren’t going to find any meaning in anything.
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That has to be one of the worst ideas you’ve ever mentioned. The last place I want to be is in darkness, alone with my thoughts.
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My understanding of him is that he believes it just is depressing, so if you aren’t depressed, then you don’t understand the reality of how meaning works, the universe works, what feelings are, etc.
His logic, bad logic, flows from that. Everything is proof of his conclusion. If you work through one if/then set he just comes up with another. If all his arguments fail, which they have, he goes back and says one of the old ones is bothering him again. It’s the thinking spiral of autism, which he admitted, but refused to address.
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Why don’t you read the purpose of sensory deprivation tanks before you start with your accusations.
Sensory deprivation tanks are used for therapeutic purposes.
This is why I suggested “supervision” (professional advise).
I’m trying to get over what they said about it.
I don’t think feelings are what they say they are. That you can just hit the right levers and programs and do whatever you want (which then begs the question of why you want that, and if they say programming then why do you want to change that programming, they never have an answer.
Like…I agree with what you say. But I don’t know how to argue against those who don’t, especially when they say they have proof otherwise.
Like someone on their I talked to saying that someone being happy that you visited them is a reflection of the love they have for you, you didn’t make them happy so much as drew out what was there. I don’t really think that is true, you can make people happy by a number of ways. You can even make something that wasn’t there before.
But yeah, I agree with that notion of feelings. That they aren’t just buttons to push. But again I don’t know how to argue against those who insist otherwise. Though having read the stuff by Don Miguel Ruiz I can see why.
His book, The Four Agreements, was effectively how to teach the virtues of not changing your mind. Since no one has the whole truth that means it’s all up for interpretation? Like…the book kinda reads like someone who doesn’t understand how humans work and how everything shapes us.
Though I guess the phrase at the start to forget everything you know is sorta a red flag.
I did and it’s still the worst advice you can give to someone especially if they have mental issues.
Literally one of the worst things you can do is to leave them alone with their thoughts, especially if they’re on the spectrum. I know I can’t relax floating in water, let alone at skin temp.
Because they don’t understand.
So then doesn’t that make the Gary guy right?
I wouldn’t be there if I didn’t want it or want it to work, but the fact is that it doesn’t.
Well…no but that’s just saying it’s not the thing doing it but you’re doing it to yourself. Like that long text link I showed said, it’s not the joke, the traffic, or anything like that.
Well no, human survival drive sorta biases us when it comes to seeing the truth of things. We value life and all that stuff because of that drive. Depression mutes that because it’s seeing things as they are. Instead of it being a common cold so to speak it’s a break in the dream to see reality.
Life is meaningless, it doesn’t have the meaning you give it. Meaning isn’t found because it doesn’t exist. That’s just truth. Depression is when you see that and understand it.
Read what I write!
I never said that you were going to be locked up in a sensory deprivation chamber and restrained in a harness.
When you are lying in a big bathtub you can get up any time you feel uncomfortable, but that very experience of “relief” from an uncomfortable experience may be a positive experience. We are not talking torture !
You are making these negative judgements without investigation. That puts you a form of self-imposed stasis in which you are frozen, unless you make a “decision” to do something, set a goal!
No. It doesn’t. He says you can decide how to feel about anything.
Again no, even the site you linked showed otherwise. It’s just a bunch of maybes.
Also it defeats the point of going and spending money if you get relief from leaving. Honestly.
I see. That is my stance to. Like…before all this I thought that I can’t help how I feel and that my emotions usually tell me something. How something makes me feel might clue me into what’s happening with me.
But when they say stuff like “It’s not the dishes, the joke etc” or “the feelings come from you” I doubt myself.
What does that mean? What is “you”? How are your feelings something that isn’t you, or don’t come from you? What part of you chooses how to feel? I’ve asked these before and you didn’t answer.
But nobody is saying that . You are.
take 40 seconds to watch this.
This is so precious and informative
p.s. Urangutans are great apes (hominids), not monkeys.
well I don’t really have an answer. I tried asking them that and didn’t really get an explanation on it, or rather what they told me wasn’t really one. It felt like I was just sorta supposed to accept it as the case, a lot of what I see there is just doubling down like on this link:
Then again this did come from a guy who said you aren’t the heart or mind but awareness, which to me is nonsense. He also didn’t understand what I meant by “the problem of other minds”. I tried to explain it like “if you step on your dogs paw and she yelps how do you know she’s in pain” and his reply is “she yelped”, at that point I knew the level of intellect I was working with.
He also couldn’t accept that trusting in your own experience is philosophy, as is that’s literally a position to take on sensation. In fact we do philosophy every day, we just don’t notice it. That whole class was literally philosophy and he tried to play it off as “just experiencing” when that is part of a school of eastern philosophy.
Never mind that he tried to shoot down the neuroscience I cited at the start as “some doctors don’t agree or that he’s studied it otherwise” (highly doubtful).
But to get back you your question I don’t really know because I didn’t really get an explanation from them. They seem to be under the impression that they have more control over themselves than they actually do, when in reality they were made that way by things around them. I barely remember his replies I just remember that they didn’t really explain anything and just muddled things. I also felt like he was trying to lead me to his conclusions even though it was disguised as curiosity.
When people you talk to use “are you 100% certain” in response to objections or counter examples you have that’s usually a red flag to me. To me it sounds like an excuse to believe whatever you want just because nothing is totally certain.
No, it is not. External stimuli triggers neurochemicals in the brain. Certain neurochemicals give you feelings of awe, others happiness, others sadness/depression, and another grief. If you lose a loved one to death, you feel grief, but you aren’t doing it yourself. The event of your loved one dying triggered the neurochemicals in your brain to give you that feeling, but you aren’t doing it yourself.
If you believe that, then stop wasting your money and the therapist time. She’ll gladly take your money though, even if you don’t actually want to try do what she suggests to feel better or improve. The thing is, those who try and want to get better, do improve with therapy. Maybe you need a med or two to help you, I don’t know, but it seems to me you want to dwell on the same subjects over and over, which is part of autism. If you didn’t want to continue to dwell on the same things over and over again, then you’d work at not doing that with the therapist.
Um… Yes, it is neurochemicals in our brains. Without those chemicals we wouldn’t have the need of survival, no fight or flight syndrome. It’s all neurochemicals in our brains.
No, it’s a chemical imbalance, sometimes needing medication.
And you got your psychology degree where?
It only has the meaning you give it. You chose not to give it meaning. That is the truth.
Again, you obviously don’t have a psychology degree and are making assumptions based on inaccurate information, which you make up and are looking at things through the lens of depression. Given that so many psychologists treat a LOT of people with depression, society is structure to make it the common cold of psychology. Society is part of the problem contributing to depression. Then there is family structure and crappy thinking.
Before you ask, yes, I have a degree in psychology.
Isn’t it based on the thoughts and beliefs you have about the loved one though and not the event itself? Or maybe the attitude one has about death and their beliefs on it?
Well it’s not costing me money. The things she suggests don’t work though, neither have the ones in the past from other therapists. I knew this was nonsense when she gave me this “self soothing” list of activities to do. I told her I’ve done all those and they don’t work and her response is she’s got nothing then.
I told you meds don’t work either. I don’t want to do this but working with a therapist hasn’t helped at all.
It’s not, it’s seeing life as it is once the meaning falls away from our eyes and minds.
Nope, it doesn’t have meaning. The “giving meaning” is just delusion.
I do have a degree and in that degree I also learned that what counts as mental illness changes across time and culture. But they look at depression the wrong way and entertain the delusion of meaning and value to life, which is why they don’t have an answer when I try to talk to them about it and the reasons I give aren’t things they can just medicate away or dismiss with some trite saying.
I saw how empty the efficacy of therapy was and the more I tried at it and worked with it the more I got the sense they have no idea what’s going on or the real depth of these existential issues. That’s why they try to hospitalize you when they don’t make progress or just try meds. They can’t address the void of existence, only hide from it.
This isn’t the lens of depression, you’re doing the same dodge they did when I tried to really talk about why this bugs me. It’s an excuse, a way to avoid dealing with this and how uncomfortable it is. Life is void and meaningless and making meaning doesn’t work once you see how empty that is.
Sp you’re back to saying they are not reliable. You are trolling this forum for conversation. You have told us we’re wrong and now you’re agreeing with us. You need to stop.