The point of life/living

What is the opposite? You do that a lot, say so-and-so “says”, but then you’re very vague. I don’t know why I answer you since you don’t ask anything that can be answered.

Then how do you know that it matters that it doesn’t matter? Why do you decide that not mattering is something that makes you feel empty and that you don’t like that feeling? You’re doing the thing that you say can’t be done and asking others to explain why they like life when you can’t explain why you don’t. You are making something mean something.

We evolved to do that because something is something. I don’t know what it is or what it means, but it ain’t nothing. Even though it’s sometimes hard being something, I still choose it, mainly because it feels good sometimes. If I don’t feel good enough, I ask for help. It’s relative, but it’s all I got. I’ve been told there are things I can do to enjoy life more and tried them and found out it’s true. Doesn’t always work, but if it always worked, then we’d just be increasing enjoyment constantly and that’s just a weird fantasy.

Of course they do. Why do you keep saying that. What is a feeling? Where do they come from? Explain this statement

What is the enchilda? What is the difference between things that we feel good experiencing and this thing we’re withholding from? Don’t just repeat nonsense, give us your comments on it.

Do you see that the word “because” is you saying that one thing means something else? You just made meaning. Either humans do that or not. You can’t say time and space are meaningless if it means something to you that they don’t have intrinsic meaning. Not having intrinsic meaning means to me that I get to discover what life is for me. You can’t take that away from me.

You have a great ability of missing the point. The answer to life the universe and everything could be carved in the side of a mountain and you would miss it.

You quoted the misunderstanding as if it was the answer and stopped before trying the practice.

See beyond your house, Joshu answers, beyond the delusion of a separate self trapped by the false perception of what is inside and what is outside.

From 2016:

I told you what that is and gave you links that show otherwise, it’s not just a say so.

That’s not what that means at all. I’m saying it doesn’t matter why the slime mold didn’t die, it doesn’t render life meaningful. Life lives because that’s what it does and it doesn’t stop doing it. It’s just an automatic machine, no thought. It wasn’t until humans when the thought came as to whether the machine should keep running.

That’s still avoiding the infinite regress of WHY I said above. Like I said, if you ask WHY enough it erodes all of that.

I’m just giving you cases to the contrary. You keep deflecting from it.

That’s not making meaning and you know it. Time and space are meaningless.

Not having intrinsic meaning doesn’t mean you get to discover, because there is nothing there to discover. I can’t take away what never existed. You really don’t get it.

That’s just more example of delusion, they aren’t living in reality.

You don’t understand what they mean by that.

She argues value doesn’t exist because it’s imaginary but everything that follows is a value statement. She’s not very bright.

When you have lived your life in a brown monochrome the introduction of color is a wondrous revelation. Why do people cry from this life altering experience?

Because the cognitive experience of something you have only heard of is a “meaningful” experience.

To see a deaf baby hear it’s mother voice for the first time and the smile of cognition is a wonderful moment for all present. If you cannot appreciate that I’m sorry.

I love to be moved to tears when I see something that explains the desire for discovery.

Engaging in dialog means sometimes I might ask to be reminded of something. Not going to apologize for that.

So, there IS meaning. There you go again. If you can say that what I said DOESN’T mean what I said, then you are saying that meaning is something we can discuss. I didn’t say anything “rendered” life meaningful, you added on that meaning.

So?

How does it do that? How does an unanswered question change that I just felt the warmth of my first sip of coffee?

The “whole enchilada” is not a case. You are throwing out phrases and not thinking about them.

What does the word “because” mean then?

Be nice. you came here with questions. I don’t claim to have all the answers or an ultimate answer and I admit my limits and that I can be wrong. We’re just talking here.

What? Now matter doesn’t exist? If we are machines, then we are made of something and we exist. Existence is a completely different discussion. I didn’t say I could fly around in space and find meaning, I just said I could move, my machinery includes movement. It also has sensations. Do those exist or not? Can I taste something and think about whether or not it will be good or bad for my machinery? Can I choose to swallow or spit it out?

You’re right. I don’t understand it. But understanding is the booby prize. I can only answer one why, and understand that question, then there’s another why.

She doesn’t say “because it’s imaginary”. I only skimmed it yesterday because I had shopping and a meeting to get to. Which is ironic because that’s exactly what she is talking about, living my life, instead of imagining there is some other life that I should understand and/or be living. Here are my thoughts on her excellent essay in detail.

It starts with a description of seeing disorder caused by nature and the desire to fight against entropy.

Then the big question, “is it getting in the way of my life?” But she knows the question assumes that something else is “life” and raking leaves is not it. The “imaginary life” she describes is the thoughts she has about what life should be, not what it is, which at that moment, is raking leaves. This is what you see so many people doing, and you are right. People imagine life is something else and don’t “look into the void” as you call it. But, keep reading.

She puts it in big bold letters, that people think the daily tasks of life are somehow not good enough, “beneath them”, that the only “real” life is the one that has greater meaning.

Then the wisdom tradition is told. That’s the hard part. The part that doesn’t have simple words but needs a longer story to help grasp it. It includes a koan, a paradox, that shows logic is not adequate, that we can’t “explain” life. But, we can practice living while doing the laundry. BTW, you are the monk in the story, the one who wants to understand the shirt. But as she says, “the shirt is just a shirt”.

So, we get to the enchilada but you’ve skipped the practice, so you don’t know what the enchilada is. You think it’s an ultimate meaning, but then you find there is no answer to the “why” after a bunch of “whys”, so you conclude it’s nothing. You looked for greater meaning and didn’t find it, missing the enchilada. At that point, you are the same as the person who tries to find meaning in beer and football. Now you “can’t shake it”. The enchilada is still there and you’re still missing it. As she says, you would rather eat your own inflated self-importance. You aren’t important to the universe, you don’t matter. You can claim that having that realization made your feelings shut down. You take your own living out of the equation and are left with nothing.

She answers the question of “why cook”, which is the beginning of the regress of “whys”. But if you are only satisfied with an answer to the final why that no one can answer, then you miss every answer before that. You miss that living with each “why” is the point. As Joshu answered, “The oak tree”.

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Because they lack perspective. THere is nothing about that experience that would lead them to do so, like that thread I mentioned said “Things don’t make you feel” because the emotions come from you not the event or object.

See the above.

You missed links I posted including that one on Huffpost.

You flew right past the point I was making. It has nothing to do with matter existing.

They come from your brain, but are triggered by cognition or memory stored in the brain.

An engram is a unit of cognitive information imprinted in a physical substance, theorized to be the means by which memories are stored as biophysical or biochemical changes in the brain or other biological tissue, in response to external stimuli. Wikipedia

What is the concept of engram?

An “engram” refers to the enduring offline physical and/or chemical changes that were elicited by learning and underlie the newly formed memory associations. “Engram cells” are populations of cells that constitute critical cellular components of a given engram.

Memory engrams: Recalling the past and imagining the future.

Thinking it’s excellent means you didn’t get it, it runs counter to what you’re saying. She’s saying nothing is worth anything because worth is imaginary, a product of our judging minds. But then she goes on to make a judgment about the marvel of our being.

No. That still runs counter to saying worth is imaginary. Literally everything she talks about is ascribing meaning to the small things. If you want to see life as it is you have to throw all that out. Life as it is is empty.

And that’s incorrect. Like I said, she got close but then ducked out at the end of it. She’s attributing meaning to everything despite saying otherwise.

The living isn’t the point or the value or the question. All that is wrong. That’s just meaning she thinks it has.

There is no enchilada. It was never real. That’s why I said she got close then backed out with the rest of it. Also that line of the enchilada was about another article saying that trying to figure out “who we are” is limiting ourselves from the whole enchilada of life because to do that we have to cut things out or say we don’t like or want this.

She doesn’t see she’s doing the very thing she’s arguing against and thus tricked herself in thinking she dealt with the question when she’s living the same delusion everyone else is.

And so far you have just shown you don’t understand the question or the nature of the issue or the infinite regress, especially if that’s what you got from that link. You didn’t get it at all, you didn’t see the flaws in her reasoning.

Or, could it be you failed to make your point clearly. Or, maybe I’m stupid. Explain it to me like I’m a fifth grader. What is it that doesn’t exist?

So what’s your point? That still says the things don’t make you feel nor the events. The feelings come from you not anything outside of you.

What is your question? You have switched to trying to convince me of something. You once asked what to do about the lack of meaning and your not feeling any joy or sorrow. You said the Happiness site had flaws in its logic, but now you are defending it. What is it you want? Validation? Enlightenment? A good laugh? Attention?

Agreed. And the universe has no intrinsic meaning. Now what?

Do you understand the term “triggered”?
Do you understand the term “action potential”?

If not, I suggest you look up those terms. They are fundamental to any discussion of “experience”.

That one was not as good. It mentions separateness but mostly it’s just playing with words. Sexual attraction is species specific. Obviously evolution gets us to mate, or we wouldn’t be here. Obviously makeup is an illusion of beauty, by definition of makeup. You are too easily taken down a rabbit hole by this word “illusion”.

I say that but now I’m not sure because it feels like I see evidence of their claims everywhere. That it’s not the music making me feel and I’m not getting lost in it but just making myself feel that. And I don’t know what to do with that.

I don’t know. That’s what shut out my emotions to begin with because it wasn’t ocean calming me down and taking me away.

Illusion is a scary word especially after I read about solipsism.

But they still prove the original point that things don’t make you feel.

I don’t know how to do that. I can act, but that’s not the same as feeling. I can’t stop feelings. I have some self control but some feelings come strong.

Who is the you that is making these feelings. Your feelings aren’t a separate thing. Sort this out for me.

Yes they do! Just touch something and you will feel it.

Touch is a sensory experience, a feeling.

Seeing is a sensory experience, a feeling.
Blind people often “see” by touch.
Blind people often “see” by sound.
Whales and dolphins can “see” via sonar

Hearing is a sensory experience, a feeling.
Moths can hear the high-frequency of their mainpredator, bats.
With the help of technology, we can hear the universe
With the help of technology , we can communicate with the world.

Smelling is a sensory experience, a feeling.
Bloodhounds can smell single day old molecules to track a person.

Feeling is an experience and the world is full with experiential feelings.

You are making these sweeping statements that are simply not true.
You will have to look a little deeper to make sense of your environment and acquire some feeling.

You may even find some answers on your own, instead of rejection advice given in the spirit of good-will.
It’s really tiresome, getting bombarded by your refusal to “listen”, a Feeling!