Just you, and I did explain my case to them and they had no response when confronted with contrary evidence.
But this is par for the course with you, irrelevant evidence (that you don’t read) and missing the point by a mile.
and everyone else. C’mon!
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Yes, I am a case of “ignorance is bliss”, and you are a case of “knowledge brings misery”.
Ain’t that a hoot!
Well it’s not hard to show it. You vomit out data without reading it.
Just in this case them. You never really responded so there’s not much to say.
@coffee is smarter than us
Well, yes, but the data is in good taste. You just vomit. It always leaves a bad taste,
You have a good point Write.
However, sometimes you present logical assumptions as settled facts.
We only have a very rudimentary understanding of mirror neurons (with conflicting scientific study results that still need to be understood) and its role in empathy is hinted at, but we need to realize the brain has many many layers upon layers interwoven and cross woven connections that project influences and are subject to many influences.
Seems to me every time a scientist has claimed one region (or element) dedicated to this or that, it’s later withdrawn as previously unforeseen interaction and connects are discovered. As they say, the details get lost in the sauce.
One pioneering study:
Researchers Identify Area Of The Brain That Processes Empathy
An international team led by Mount Sinai School of Medicine has shown that one area of the brain is the only activity center of empathy.
- New York, NY - (September 01, 2012)
An international team led by researchers at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York has for the first time shown that one area of the brain, called the anterior insular cortex, is the activity center of human empathy, whereas other areas of the brain are not. The study is published in the September 2012 issue of the journal Brain.
Empathy, the ability to perceive and share another person’s emotional state, has been described by philosophers and psychologists for centuries. In the past decade, scientists have used powerful functional MRI imaging to identify several regions in the brain that are associated with empathy for pain. This most recent study, however, firmly establishes that the anterior insular cortex is where the feeling of empathy originates. …
… According to Dr. Gu, this study provides the first evidence suggesting that the empathy deficits in patients with brain damage to the anterior insular cortex are surprisingly similar to the empathy deficits found in several psychiatric diseases, including autism spectrum disorders, borderline personality disorder, schizophrenia, and conduct disorders, suggesting potentially common neural deficits in those psychiatric populations. …
How we empathize with others: A neurobiological perspective - PMC
How we empathize with others: A neurobiological perspective
Kamila Jankowiak-Siuda 1,
, Krystyna Rymarczyk 2, Anna Grabowska 1,2
PMCID: PMC3524680 PMID: 21169921
Summary
… Bottom-up neural processing is achieved via the mirroring representation systems that play a key role in the direct sharing of the emotional states of others. Top-down processing, known as cognitive perspective-taking or theory of mind, where the feelings of others are fully imagined and understood, is based on control and inhibition mechanisms. Available evidence indicates that empathic brain responses are likely to be influenced by several different modulating factors. …
And there are others, fairly long article but quite interesting and an introduction to the multi-layered aspects of the brain and processing stuff like “empathy” or “sympathy”.
It’s complicated, and we still have a lot more to learn about brain functions before this state of affairs will settle down.
We of the undereducated class, our’s is to try and learn from experts, and not to tell them their business (For the record philosophers are not scientists!), since we are clueless about the details, inthedarkness screaming about no one reading the articles, is a disingenuous diversion, considering that as soon as the science articles get into the real nitty gritty, we get lost, because it takes years of study to understand the details about what they are discussing, let alone the complexities of doing research.
,
,
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In the absence of a competing model, we can safely say that the current model is based on the total knowledge of the brain, and is sufficient to make some educated guesses “how” it all works, based on demonstrable axioms.
The problem is that any observations made at quantum level, actually affect the quantum process itself.
Brain MRI
A brain (head) MRI scan is a painless test that produces very clear images of the structures inside of your head — mainly, your brain. Healthcare providers use brain MRIs to evaluate, diagnose and monitor several different medical conditions that affect your brain or other structures in your head.
My logical model rests on a general natural expression of a mathematically functioning universe, i.e. “cognition of dynamical (variable) differential equations”.
When we speak of “cognition of differences”, we must first be able to experience the difference between original knowledge in memory and the processing of dynamic differences that senses feed our brains new data at a constant rate.
This “comparative” system requires a mirroring function of some sort.
Cognition itself is a mirroring function. If you cannot mirror any changes, you cannot experience the changes taking place in every moment of observation.
I wouldn’t say that. There was nothing to back up what they said when pressed on it.
It’s ironic that so far the evidence is backing what I said about empathy.
What evidence? Link please.
My links provide plenty evidence to support the mirror function that allows for the empathic response model.
Of course, if one cannot experience empathic responses and their subsequent “action potentials”, that cognitive ability is an “unknown” factor to that person.
Mirror Movements in Acquired Neurological Disorders: A Mini-Review
Introduction
Mirror movements (MMs) refer to involuntary movements that appear during voluntary activity in the contralateral homologous muscles. Alongside associated movement and contralateral motor irradiation, MMs are a form of motor overflow phenomena (1–3).
However, compared with the other forms, MMs have received the most attention from researchers. Physiological MMs may present during infancy stage in healthy children and persist until around the age of 10 years. They can also be elicited in healthy young and older adults under conditions of severe fatigue, intense physical activity, movements involving large force generation, and proximal muscle use (4, 5).
Persistence of involuntary synkinetic mirror movements of the opposite limb is considered pathological.
I know you wouldn’t say someone is smarter than you. Heaven forbid. I wasn’t commenting so much on what he said, but rather that he was smart to stop interacting with you.
No it doesn’t, read it closer, it says the opposite.
It supports my notion that empathy is imagination and not really feeling with them.
He didn’t really say much so it wasn’t really an interaction.
But only if you read a line here and there out of context.
There are nuances.
But it doesn’t seem you are making any good faith effort to learn, or to teach.
“Imagination” and what else do you think your thoughts are?
Why not think of your thoughts as cascading interactions reflecting the immediate ongoing situation.
Well there is also the important lesson that your consciousness is basically the inside reflection of your biological body in the process of living. As all creatures reflect, via increasingly more primitive modalities.
Instead of endless batting around this poor empathy thing, sink your teeth into the bigger picture
Oct 27, 2022 - Michael Levin
TALK ABSTRACT Life was solving problems in metabolic, genetic, physiological, and anatomical spaces long before brains and nervous systems appeared. In this talk, I will describe remarkable capabilities of cell groups as they create, repair, and remodel complex anatomies. Anatomical homeostasis reveals that groups of cells are collective intelligences; their cognitive medium is the same as that of the human mind: electrical signals propagating in cell networks. I will explain non-neural bioelectricity and the tools we use to track the basal cognition of cells and tissues and control their function for applications in regenerative medicine. I will conclude with a discussion of our framework based on evolutionary scaling of intelligence by pivoting conserved mechanisms that allow agents, whether designed or evolved, to navigate complex problem spaces.
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I had to do a double take on that.
What are you talking about?
That’s not a thing.
You have your feeling and they have their feeling, no mind melds here on Earth.
That’s not what empathy is about.
What are your expectations?
Learn some more.
This is hopeless. He doesn’t even understand anything about the “easy (measurable) problem” of consciousness. Let alone the “hard problem”.
Perhaps he sees the “mirror function” as a sheet of glass backed by silverfoil and does not understand the function of "natural selection for survival skills, such as the survival value via “imitation” of good survival skills.
No it’s not just a line here or there, it’s literally the text of what you guys cite. Not to mention all the unknowns around it.
Because that’s not what they are. Thoughts don’t reflect the immediate ongoing situation.
That is literally what most definitions of the word are.
I don’t see it as a problem, and that isn’t really relevant here. Again you don’t understand how to argue your point, you just vomit out data that contradicts your view because you don’t read it.
I rest my case. He has no clue what a thought is and how they generated.
p.s.@ inthedarkness, You are clearly showing your limited knowledge of brain function. Perhaps it is you who is doing the cherry picking?
I have spent a few years studying the brain and how it works.
The remaining mystery is how an internal image of the world becomes a conscious experience inside our dark, deaf, skull comparing data in memory with a stream of incoming quantum data throughout the neural network, consisting of 100 billion neurons, connected by 100 trillion synapses. That’s a lot of pixels.
You don’t so lets not pretend you do.
Thoughts don’t have to do with the present or immediate situation. People dream, their minds wander, they get distracted.
I highly doubt that since your info so far has been pretty easy to pick apart, just like the last nth times your tried this and I had to point out how you’re wrong. Data without comprehension, in other words “noise”.
Not quantum data, also not really a mystery that needs to be solved and also not relevant to the discussion.
Par for the course again.
You pegged it.
Why don’t you try; Microtubules the seat of Consciousness
236 pages of information on brain function, right here.
that is exactly my point. he quickly determined that you have a different definition of “proof” than most people, that you frequently say things like “No it doesn’t, read it closer”, and that you rarely attempt to clarify what someone said or seek out any kind of dialog that builds toward something new.
as opposed to Write4U who keeps say “This is hopeless.” and then writes another long post.
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