The Nazi Problem In Ukraine

“The prelude to the murders was carried out on 9 February 1943 by a unit of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, which murdered 173 Poles in the village of Parośla by tying up the victims and slaughtering them with axes.

The killings were directly linked with radical Ukrainian nationalist Stepan Bandera’s Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and its military arm, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army.
Ukrainian attacks against Poles intensified on 11 July 1943. At the crack of dawn that day Ukrainian insurgent detachments, supported by local Ukrainians, simultaneously surrounded and attacked 99 Polish villages in the Kowel, Włodzimierz Wołyński, Horochów and Łuck districts.
Villages were burned to the ground and property was looted. Researchers estimate that on that day alone the number of Polish victims may have amounted to some 8,000 people, mostly women, children, and the elderly.
The coordinated operation lasted until July 16th, but the massacres still continued. In July 1943 alone, 530 Polish villages were cleared of their residents and burned. Only a minority managed to escape.”

These events have been kept alive in the hearts of Ukranians through a CIA funded publication Suchasnist. The worst of it we will probably never know, unless a fresh leaker comes forward. What evidence we have is plenty though:

A strange confluence here on pg.31 Hiding Bandera :slight_smile:
"The Soviets wanted Stefan Bandera. American intelligence officials recognized that his arrest would have quick and adverse effects on
the future of US operations with the Ukrainians. According to Aradi,
Bandera’s arrest:
’ Would imply to the Ukrainians that we as an organization are
unable to protect them, i.e., we have no authority. In such a case,
there is not any reason or sense for them to cooperate with us’ "

Strange that the logic was not followed the second time around.
Russia’s claim that deNazifying Ukraine is a part of their cause has been bashed as a lie by the Western controllers, who turn around and call the Russians the Nazis. The lowest of moral ground is had by the U.$.F.G. and its NATO allies. These lies are known to the public at large and especially in these European countries. Clearly the sort of arm twisting that has gone on is for some beyond belief. It is nearly so for myself included, yet this analysis lands me here cleanly. All that is left to be filled in is the chain of four generations to venerate their genocidal leader… pumped by U.$ citizens’ tax dollars.

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Please note I do consider DW to be under the control of the Western narrative. However, here the soft-pedalling, or limited hangout, can help establish the poor credibility of this source. Meanwhile the relevancy of the issue and its need to take this sort of attention is coherent to the OP analysis. Left out of course is the CIA interaction, by DW themselves.

I don’t think it’s that big of a problem.

80 years ago?

How about Stalin?

According to estimates based on data from Soviet archives post-1991, there were around 1.6 million deaths during the whole period from 1929 to 1953.[[25]]

The tentative historical consensus is that of the 18 million people who passed through the gulag system from 1930 to 1953, between 1.5 and 1.7 million died as a result of their incarceration.

Fitly Years of the CIA
Central Intelligence Agency

Article was written 25 years ago about the history of the CIA about events in 1945?

[quote=“timbandtech, post:2, topic:10370”]
Please note I do consider DW to be under the control of the Western narrative. However, here the soft-pedalling, or limited hangout, can help establish the poor credibility of this source. Meanwhile the relevancy of the issue and its need to take this sort of attention is coherent to the OP analysis. Left out of course is the CIA interaction, by DW themselves.

What are you trying to prove?

Stepan Bandera, killed by Soviet intelligence agents in West Germany more than 60 years ago, is probably the best-known Ukrainian nationalist.

His name became a symbol long before the war that Russia has been waging against Ukraine since February 24.**
Stepan Bandera: Hero or Nazi collaborator? – DW – 05/22/2022

How are Putin’s actions today de-Nazifying?

You’d have to first recognize Derussification in Ukraine - Wikipedia
Of course, I know better than to trust wikepedia as a valid source particularly for politically charged issues. Still, this is at least a baseline. Indeed DeRussification is occuring accross Europe and the NATO alliance. We’ve shut them down from interaction. Do seized bank accounts mean a thing? The normalization of Russia, who fully underwent a change when the USSR fell, so much so that McDonalds and Starbucks were on their streets, and American investors took great interest in opportunities there. Of course as Russia got hollowed out by these capitalists there was a reaction. Yikes. It’s too easy to get swamped in the details here. Yet as we focus upon one detail it does connect to other details. Russia in its diversity is like a Europe of its own, and more so now with this new isolationary tactic.

The deep ties between Ukraine and Russia are well known. The deep ties of Nazis in Ukraine to the CIA will be known, too…
To Catch A Nazi:

That this propaganda movement could be successful: not really. What we see now is the last of it. We will finally be able to put to bed the complicity of the CIA with Ukranian Nazis. The information war is afoot now. We are fully immersed in it. As to who is going to lose this informational war: the West is so thick in propaganda now that it cannot get out of its own way. We are literally choking on the stuff. Normalizing it we get to things like this:

As propaganda can be regarded as a Nazi thing, so Rachel Maddow can take this title too. Indeed what could Russiagate be but Russophobia brought directly to the U.$. citizen? The choice to reignite the cold war was optional. The plan was not hatched by Hillary Clinton, but by the deep state through her. And on who’s watch? That would be Barack Obama, people. We could suppose a positive theory here: that this grand theater was set up to put this era to bed once and for all. To clean our hands of complicity at some point in the future. It is near now. I do hope that we land with people dancing in the streets, rather than the alternative. I do fear it could go either way.

Ties between two nations, shouldn’t give the more powerful country the right to absorbed said 2nd country.

Like you say,

Well considering Russia’s invasion and massive destruction of a sovereign neighbor-nation - seems to a bit more Russiaphobia would have been a positive thing - but instead USA had a openly traitorous president - who’d rather praise, empower, and enable Putin, while relentlessly insulting and attacking his own f’n government and having an apparent hate-on against a freedom loving sovereign Ukraine.

Jim Rutenberg - Nov. 2, 2022

On the night of July 28, 2016, as Hillary Clinton was accepting the Democratic presidential nomination in Philadelphia, Donald J. Trump’s campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, received an urgent email from Moscow. The sender was a friend and business associate named Konstantin Kilimnik. A Russian citizen born in Soviet Ukraine, Kilimnik ran the Kyiv office of Manafort’s international consulting firm, known for bringing cutting-edge American campaign techniques to clients seeking to have their way with fragile democracies around the world.

Kilimnik didn’t say much, only that he needed to talk, in person, as soon as possible. Exactly what he wanted to talk about was apparently too sensitive even for the tradecraft the men so fastidiously deployed — encrypted apps, the drafts folder of a shared email account and, when necessary, dedicated “bat phones.” But he had made coded reference — “caviar” — to an important former client, the deposed Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych, who had fled to Russia in 2014 after presiding over the massacre of scores of pro-democracy protesters. Manafort responded within minutes, and the plan was set for five days later.

Kilimnik cleared customs at Kennedy Airport at 7:43 p.m., only 77 minutes before the scheduled rendezvous at the Grand Havana Room, a Trump-world hangout atop 666 Fifth Avenue, the Manhattan office tower owned by the family of Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Shortly after the appointed hour, …

Long before the Trump-era investigations, Manafort had established himself in Washington and abroad as a grand master of the political dark arts. Together with Roger Stone, Manafort helped develop the slashing style of conservative politics, pushing “hot buttons” to rile up base voters and tar opponents. …

Its a long story, quite informative, I could add a half dozen other important quotes, but I’m already pushing it.

The investigation “identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign” and established that the Trump Campaign “showed interest in WikiLeaks’s releases of documents and welcomed their potential to damage candidate Clinton”

  • In 2015 and 2016, Michael Cohen pursued a hotel/residence project in Moscow on behalf of Trump while he was campaigning for President.[5]Then-candidate Trump personally signed a letter of intent.
  • Senior members of the Trump campaign, including Paul Manafort, Donald Trump, Jr., and Jared Kushner took a June 9, 2016, meeting with Russian nationals at Trump Tower, New York, after outreach from an intermediary informed Trump, Jr., that the Russians had derogatory information on Clinton that was “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”[6]
  • Beginning in June 2016, a Trump associate “forecast to senior [Trump] Campaign officials that WikiLeaks would release information damaging to candidate Clinton.”[7] A section of the Report that remains heavily redacted suggests that Roger Stone was this associate and that he had significant contacts with the campaign about Wikileaks.[8]
  • The Report described multiple occasions where Trump associates lied to investigators about Trump associate contacts with Russia. Trump associates George Papadopoulos, Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, and Michael Cohen all admitted that they made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their contacts. In addition, Roger Stone faces trial this fall for obstruction of justice, five counts of making false statements, and one count of witness tampering.
  • The Report contains no evidence that any Trump campaign official reported their contacts with Russia or WikiLeaks to U.S. law enforcement authorities during the campaign or presidential transition, despite public reports on Russian hacking starting in June 2016 and candidate Trump’s August 2016 intelligence briefing warning him that Russia was seeking to interfere in the election.
  • The Report raised questions about why Trump associates and then-candidate Trump repeatedly asserted Trump had no connections to Russia.[9]

This resource is a part of ACS’s Mueller Investigation resources. Click here to see all resources.

The Special Counsel investigation uncovered extensive criminal activity

  • The investigation produced 37 indictments; seven guilty pleas or convictions; and compelling evidence that the president obstructed justice on multiple occasions. Mueller also uncovered and referred 14 criminal matters to other components of the Department of Justice.
  • Trump associates repeatedly lied to investigators about their contacts with Russians, and President Trump refused to answer questions about his efforts to impede federal proceedings and influence the testimony of witnesses.
  • A statement signed by over 1,000 former federal prosecutors concluded that if any other American engaged in the same efforts to impede federal proceedings the way Trump did, they would likely be indicted for multiple charges of obstruction of justice.

Russia engaged in extensive attacks on the U.S. election system in 2016

  • Russian interference in the 2016 election was “sweeping and systemic.”[1]
  • Major attack avenues included a social media “information warfare” campaign that “favored” candidate Trump[2] and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.[3]
  • Russia also targeted databases in many states related to administering elections gaining access to information for millions of registered voters.[4]

American Constitution Society (WIKI)

Confessions of a Russiagate Skeptic

Why I have my doubts about whether Trump colluded with Moscow.
February 18, 2018

Why I’m no longer a Russiagate skeptic

Facts are piling up, and it’s getting harder to deny what’s staring us in the face.
JULY 20, 2018

He’s demolishing the country because they renamed streets? Nazis. You were talking about Nazis.

You are all over the place with this.

The fact that US intelligence worked with subversive groups in the Soviet Union doesn’t have anything to do with the war going on right now.

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I concede that this issue does require some broad attention span to break through the propaganda and achieve the propergandhi. If anything Putin has done too well, and the U.$. has attempted to put him and his countrymen down. Now that the U.$. is picking on someone it’s own size we see quite a different tale than the skirmishes in other countries, of bullying and pitting one population against another; an old British tactic as I understand it from colonial times. What is scariest: we see this buildup here within the borders of the U.$. We see the propaganda so thick you’ve got to sharpen your knife and cut off a little piece at a time. Still, I am pretty good with a stone and have some time to do so. Best of all if we let lies lead the way to the door of their source then we have a pretty good sense of what is actually going on. All fingers point to the deep state. In fact, they’ve been doing this for so long in other faraway lands that their culture of evil may get its own nomenclature outside of the box of Naziism or fascism. Some are calling it inverted totalitarianism. That’s a mouthful. To get the total part though you just have to witness the military bases of the U.$. throughout the world. If they were there making trade fair that could be something, but we have evidence to the contrary. We have evidence of corruption of the UN organs themselves; turned to tools of the parasitic deep state. Do we have a parasite problem? Are you scratching your head? From Nazis in Ukraine to fake chemical attacks in Syria to starved Iraqi mothers yielding deformed children to slave markets in Libya we have one common thread. The parasites were there. Well, you could argue, arene’t parasites ultimately a healthy thing that evolved that way for a reason? Well, I quip, what about when they are the same species as the host? And you say, well, sir, that would be cannibalism wouldn’t it be? And I agree.

Now, people like Rachel Maddow deny the very existence of the deep state. They say it with a slight smile and a little shrug. And some believe it. Meanwhile there is another class of journalists; less well payed and committed to the truth:

Possibly British. It’s also what Kruschev meant when he said he would defeat us without firing a shot. He did it in plain sight, and it worked. Trump is the same, be so openly brazen and flaunt logic that people don’t think it could be a lie.

The antidote is facts, trust of your neighbor, calm reflection. Instead, you decide what you will find, then connect dots that are unconnected to get there. That makes you a participant in the propaganda.

I think there is a difference between the usage of rhetoric and propaganda. Propaganda is lies. Your mildest of mild falsifications here only lands with an accusation that has nothing to back it up. As for connecting the dots…

To ponder the immensity of the situation; the sort of capabilites that exist, particularly in this high tech age with such funding as they have; but yet we have good people like Ed Snowden to expose the situation. He himself has a story of participating in an op compromising a foreign man of interest. These activities put internet trolling to shame: these are the real deal. Real trolls do operate on this planet. They can appear well dressed and cleanly shaven, but their behaviors are what you should judge them by. Many operate on a need-to-know basis, which means that they don’t know a thing. They take their pay, thinking, ‘It’s a dog eat dog world’ and never bother to look at the bigger picture. I can see that some here are wearing just the same blinders. What comes around goes around… Pin the tale on the Nazi, I call it. Yes, that was a past age. The term is in reference to it. As to who is happy to manage ethnic cleansing, and even build it; develop it formally and secretly… there is no doubt. We just keep proving it one detail at a time. The whole business is of holding others down. Even as our own population descends all that can be done is to hold others down even lower. To claim some sort of stasis on this though wouldn’t be correct. This system is in flux, and to say that it is fluxed; that even within this disgusting organism there is still a system of competition to see who can fleece the most away is like posing that there is something above and beyond corruption going on. The deep state becomes a super-class; above the law; who will deny that? Already we know that this status alone is cause for trouble. A century of such is roughly what we are looking at. To see presidential candidates running on taking it down; to see the denial of its existence; to witness the poor grade of propaganda being pumped out of every channel of every national and international source; the magnitude of the situation is more than informational. I’m not sure that I understand the momentum of the system that we are witnessing, but I do understand that it is substantial. The idea that one day with the snap of a finger everyone will wake up and we’ll be back to an honest system is not realistic. As to whether I trust my neighbor; even old friends; did they buy into Russiagate? And I should still trust them? Tools of a propaganda state have to be called out, and that is not a friendly thing to do. Again, I have to mention that the difference between the propagandized and the propagandist is actually quite slim when the goal is achieved. On the Humanist agenda we could take up the programmable human as a means of analysis. It is a dark topic. These are dark times. Repetition of complete lies by so many sources is so well established now, that to witness such foolish remarks as I witness here at the Center For Inquiry; and so many other supposedly intellectual fronts; lightly put is a disappointment.

To think that the truth will eventually come out, and that so much of the population will be in denial because they have been galvanized; this foresight is obvious once stated. We are witnessing the makings of the next holocaust denial.

I will not be complicit.

“Azov is a small fraction of those fighting to save Ukraine. For every feat attributed to Azov units, there were many more accomplished by others. Even the legendary siege of Mariupol last year that made Azov famous involved Ukrainian marines who suffered and held out just as bravely. We could have honored them. Instead, we went out of our way to glorify Azov.”

From this link;

“No president, regardless of party, should be handed a blank check and endless special powers that can be used to circumvent the normal democratic process, exceed their constitutional authority, and violate the balance of power,” Gosar wrote.

Now consider where Gosar’s loyalty lies.


On Wednesday, Rep. Paul Gosar was formally censured by the House and stripped of his committee assignments.

On Thursday, the Arizona Republican was endorsed by former President Donald Trump.

“Congressman Paul Gosar has been a loyal supporter of our America First agenda, and even more importantly, the USA. Paul is a Congressman who is highly respected in Arizona, strong on Crime, Borders, our Military, and our Veterans,” the former President said in a statement. “He continually fights for Lower Taxes, Less Regulations, and our great, but under siege, Second Amendment. Paul Gosar has my Complete and Total Endorsement!”

If you think that timing is coincidental, well, it’s not.

The chances that Trump even knew who Gosar was prior to the controversy over a photoshopped video showing him killing New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are, well, slim.

But, as I noted in a piece on Thursday, Gosar’s video – and the resulting outcry – turned him in Republican eyes from faceless backbencher into warrior against wokeness and political correctness. Suddenly Gosar was a hero of the conservative right, a man who was being persecuted by Democrats who were trying to silence free speech. Or something.

And the cherry on top for Gosar? The Trump endorsement.

“Thank you President Trump for this honor,” tweeted Gosar soon after Trump backed him. “I am humbled to have earned your support, and the support of the American people. Our struggle to return this nation to greatness is more daunting than ever with the current Administration. Together we will save America.”

Makes you wonder where the deep state lies. With a handcuffed congress or with loyalty to a wannabe emperor, who is being tried for crimes against the state.

What does Deep State even mean? And why is Rachel Maddow a spokesperson for the “deep state” ? A grotesque analogy, that has been “casually” mentioned in the course of discussing where the “good guys” are in supposed to be the “bad guys”, and the “bad guys” are magically transformed into the “good guys”.

I don’t know which of my “accusations” you are contesting, so I will not respond. (This is related to the Issue thread, so I won’t repeat). I have already established that I don’t like your sources, and I don’t find your long, very long, so long, posts that not only don’t contain logic and facts, but actually state that those facts are not available, or that some other non-specified source of information needs to be reviewed, studied, and accepted as fact. I have “done that research”, and I have enough people that I do it for. I don’t need another conspiracy theorist friend.

Hitler’s Shadow, CHAPTER FIVE | Collaborators: Allied Intelligence and the
Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists pg. 86:

“CIA operations with these Ukrainians began in 1948 under the cryptonym
CARTEL, soon changed to AERODYNAMIC. Hrinioch stayed in Munich, but
Lebed relocated to New York and acquired permanent resident status, then
U.S. citizenship. It kept him safe from assassination, allowed him to speak to
Ukrainian émigré groups, and permitted him to return to the United States after
operational trips to Europe. His identification in New York by other Ukrainians
as a leader responsible for “wholesale murders of Ukrainians, Poles and Jewish
(sic),” has been discussed elsewhere.”

Where do you find hope? An author? A country? Something ancient? Jimmy Dore is a downer.

I’m aware of the deep state involvement in Ukraine, but trying to link Cold War shenanigans to it is not helping.