The dung of the devil

Pope Francis recently said “…An unfettered pursuit of money rules. That is the dung of the devil…”
Now, I don’t believe in the actual existence of mythical entities such as the devil, and thus do not believe in such an entity’s ability to defecate laissez faire capitalism.
But as a metaphorical statement highlighting some humans’ propensity for greed that results in other humans being horribly subjected to their filthy waste products, I think his statement is right on.
So once again, I give kudos to Pope Francis.

Couldn’t agree more. Time and again he has said the right things. And just by him saying them, regardless of what else he does, it enlightens people. The only thing I’m still not used to is a Christian acting so Christ-like! :slight_smile:

Feel good talk from the head of one of the most successful profit-driven organizations in history.

This is the same pope who told poor people in Africa that condoms cause AIDS, refuses to lift sanctions on birth control, and condoned the Charlie Hebdo murders. I appreciate his stances on climate change and economics, but don’t heap more praise on him than he deserves. As MA alluded, he is being rather hypocritical condemning capitalism while presiding over an organization that has more money than many countries.

This is the same pope who told poor people in Africa that condoms cause AIDS, refuses to lift sanctions on birth control, and condoned the Charlie Hebdo murders. I appreciate his stances on climate change and economics, but don't heap more praise on him than he deserves. As MA alluded, he is being rather hypocritical condemning capitalism while presiding over an organization hat has more money than many countries.
That's right, and they acquired much of it through capitalism, too. Nothing like being a hypocrite. He says a few rational and sensble things but it doesn't come close to relieving the damage that the Church's other positions have done and continue to do. Lois
Couldn't agree more. Time and again he has said the right things. And just by him saying them, regardless of what else he does, it enlightens people. The only thing I'm still not used to is a Christian acting so Christ-like! :)
He'd better watch his back. Nobody in the church, including the Pope, can be anything like Christ-like until the church divests itself of its wealth, nearly all of it ill-gotten. Lois

It took 1700 years to build this religious institution and it isn’t going to come down overnight. The Church still has power and influence over the “flock”'and World leaders, and the only real way to unplug this giant is for the “faithful” to lose faith. Pope Frank’s few reforms, although impressive won’t really change much while people still believe in munching on their God.
Cap’t Jack

This is the same pope who told poor people in Africa that condoms cause AIDS, refuses to lift sanctions on birth control, and condoned the Charlie Hebdo murders. I appreciate his stances on climate change and economics, but don't heap more praise on him than he deserves. As MA alluded, he is being rather hypocritical condemning capitalism while presiding over an organization that has more money than many countries.
Good points, indeed. But all have sinned and come short of the glory of humanism, so to speak. I only wish to give him credit where credit is due. Note that I don't recall giving any previous Pope credit at all.
This is the same pope who told poor people in Africa that condoms cause AIDS, refuses to lift sanctions on birth control, and condoned the Charlie Hebdo murders. I appreciate his stances on climate change and economics, but don't heap more praise on him than he deserves. As MA alluded, he is being rather hypocritical condemning capitalism while presiding over an organization that has more money than many countries.
Good points, indeed. But all have sinned and come short of the glory of humanism, so to speak. I only wish to give him credit where credit is due. Note that I don't recall giving any previous Pope credit at all. Good points. I should have quoted Cuthbert when I posted. This pope is not nearly as Christ-like as a lot of people want to believe. Edit: fixed a typo. See below. I really need more caffeine before posting.
Good points. I should have quoted Cuthbert when I posted. This pope is not nearly as Christ-like as a lot of believe want to believe.
Good points on both sides. Personally, I think it's valid to say "Pope" as one entity when referring to all Popes. For a very long term example, take "Papal Infallibility". It was created by one of the worst Popes, one who was hated by most of the Bishops at the time. So, get rid of it already. This current Pope talks a good game, maybe half the time, and those words get trumpeted, the stupid stuff he says, you have to watch for that. The stuff he is NOT saying is probably the most important.
I only wish to give him credit where credit is due.
To me, the important thing is what he is saying and the ramifications. And what he is saying is both important and thought provoking. Focus on the man or his church, and you lose the impact of what is being said. There are some who are hearing what he is saying and it scares the Hell out of them (which to me is a good thing). For example: Pope Francis ignites a revolt that will overthrow American capitalism] Kudos to the Pope.
This is the same pope who told poor people in Africa that condoms cause AIDS, refuses to lift sanctions on birth control, and condoned the Charlie Hebdo murders. I appreciate his stances on climate change and economics, but don't heap more praise on him than he deserves. As MA alluded, he is being rather hypocritical condemning capitalism while presiding over an organization that has more money than many countries.
Good points, indeed. But all have sinned and come short of the glory of humanism, so to speak. I only wish to give him credit where credit is due. Note that I don't recall giving any previous Pope credit at all. Good points. I should have quoted Cuthbert when I posted. This pope is not nearly as Christ-like as a lot of people want to believe. Edit: fixed a typo. See below. I really need more caffeine before posting. When he stops condemning abortion and birth control I'll concede his Christ-like standards. Jesus was never quoted as saying anything against abortion or birth control, though they were practiced in his lifetime. He apparently didn't think either was worth mentioning. But, of course, the Pope knows better than Jesus did. Lois
When he stops condemning abortion and birth control I’ll concede his Christ-like standards.
If this thread was about the character of the Pope, I would agree he is not Christ-like. But that is not the topic. The topic deals with what he has been saying recently. And what he has been saying flies in the face of the Evangelical Christian Right. For this, I applaud him.
When he stops condemning abortion and birth control I’ll concede his Christ-like standards.
If this thread was about the character of the Pope, I would agree he is not Christ-like. But that is not the topic. The topic deals with what he has been saying recently. And what he has been saying flies in the face of the Evangelical Christian Right. For this, I applaud him.
I think his character and the past actions of the office are well within this topic. No one gets to just say something and walk away, and that goes double for someone who actually has the power to change things. Unless of course he doesn't have that power. Unless he is just saying these things to improve the image of the Church while they continue to hide their past and take a few bucks out of the pockets of millions of poor people every Sunday.

OK.
I suppose you can discuss whatever you like. To me, the Pope has been making some statements that are ruffling feathers and stimulating debate. One of those statements initiated this discussion. If you want to turn it into a Pope bashing session to air your grievances against him, you may certainly do so, but I just don’t see that leading us anywhere.
I guess I would liken it to a prominent Republican Senator stepping forward and saying it is time the GOP started paying attention to the overwhelming scientific evidence of Global Warming, and dismissing it because he is Pro-Life.
A step in the right direction is a step in the right direction.

That’s actually a decent analogy and makes your point well. Excuse my cynicism.
But the analogy loses a little steam when you compare the relative power of the two people. One has a vote, and let’s hope even some pull with other members of his party. The other supposedly is the master of all with a direct connection to God. It seems it’s always the evil Popes making edicts and changing things for the worse, while the nice guys just say nice things and hope the Bishops will follow along. I realize there is politics in the Vatican, but if he really wants to do something, why doesn’t he?

That's actually a decent analogy and makes your point well. Excuse my cynicism. But the analogy loses a little steam when you compare the relative power of the two people. One has a vote, and let's hope even some pull with other members of his party. The other supposedly is the master of all with a direct connection to God. It seems it's always the evil Popes making edicts and changing things for the worse, while the nice guys just say nice things and hope the Bishops will follow along. I realize there is politics in the Vatican, but if he really wants to do something, why doesn't he?
In the recent miniseries "Tut" (a fictionalized drama of the latter part of King Tutenkahmen's life) this King, who the common people thought of as a living god, was actually more of a puppet for other forces within his regime, until he tried to exert his power, at which time he came under the secretive assault of those other forces, leading to his early death. Despite the hyperbolic expectations that are generally assigned to leaders, they are subject to controlling factors just as are all mortals. Progressives, including me, are never satisfied with the positive moves and successes of leaders (and that is a good thing, I think), but we don't generally know all of the constraints they are operating under. Obama for instance, has influenced a lot of progressive changes, but we demand more, and sometimes highlight his shortcomings in effecting progressive changes. That's ok, but we shouldn't allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.