I don’t know what energetic mass is [apart from non-rest, restless mass].
I don’t see the because.
I think the chicken is the quantum fields of lowest energy state vacuum inside the egg of spacetime.
First a photon has a value. There is no such thing as a non-value object.
Incidentally, there are no massless particles in classical mechanics.
Energy–momentum relation - Wikipedia.
Even as a photon seems to have a theoretical zero rest-mass there is no such thing as a photon at rest. It is never in a “lowest energy state”.
When a photon is forced to become at rest (wave-collapse), it displays massive properties as is apparent in the double slit experiment and the concept of particle/wave duality.
Sorry, er, what value? What denomination?
Your link talks about massless particles.
How does wave function collapse stop photons? Absorption does. Where and what are the massive properties of light in the double slit experiment or in light waves or particles?
[quote=“martin-peter-clarke, post:83, topic:8020, full:true”]
Sorry, er, what value? What denomination?
Frequency, energy.
Your link talks about massless particles
The quote is from that link.
How does wave function collapse stop photons? Absorption does.
You have that backwards, stopping the photon collapses the wave function and the photon becomes a particle with energetic kinetic mass (see illustration}
Where and what are the massive properties of light in the double slit experiment or in light waves or particles?
Feast your eyes. This is the result of a chemical reaction, a physical response to an external object and clearly demonstrates the selective individuality of the particles by their selective dispersion.
We’ve all seen recreations of the famous double-slit experiment, which showed that light can behave both as a wave and as a particle. Or rather, it’s likely that what we’ve seen is the results of the double-slit experiment, that barcode-looking pattern of light and dark stripes, accompanied by some handwaving about classical versus quantum mechanics. But if you’ve got 20 minutes to invest, this video of the whole double-slit experiment cuts through the handwaving and opens your eyes to the quantum world.
Duality Of Light Explored By Revisiting The Double-Slit Experiment | Hackaday
That’s two! Denominations.
The quote follows the discussion of massless particles.
The ambiguities, interference patterns of language eh?
Beautiful video. What’s the chemical reaction?
[quote=“martin-peter-clarke, post:85, topic:8020, full:true”]
That’s two! Denominations.
Yes, two different values.
The quote follows the discussion of massless particles.
But that is in theory only. In reality there is nothing that has no value. No value would mean “nothing” and there is always a “thing” with a certain value.
The ambiguities, interference patterns of language eh?
The interference pattern is an observable physical pattern of chemical reactions to particles striking the photographic plate.
Beautiful video. What’s the chemical reaction?
[/quote]
Silver halide
When a silver halide crystal is exposed to light, a sensitivity speck on the surface of the crystal is turned into a small speck of metallic silver (these comprise the invisible or latent image). If the speck of silver contains approximately four or more atoms, it is rendered developable - meaning that it can undergo development which turns the entire crystal into metallic silver.
Areas of the emulsion receiving larger amounts of light (reflected from a subject being photographed, for example) undergo the greatest development and therefore result in the highest optical density.
Silver halides are also used to make corrective lenses darken when exposed to ultraviolet light (see photochromism).
Silver halide - Wikipedia
My point is that regardless of a theoretical zero restmass, a photon has a value that enables physical interaction with a chemical on a photographic plate. And that makes it a physical particle with energetic properties.
According to David Bohm a photon is always a particle and the wavefunction is the Universal Pilot Wave that provides the “guiding equation” for the particle’s trajectory.
# Bohmian Mechanics
First published Fri Oct 26, 2001; substantive revision Mon Jun 14, 2021
Bohmian mechanics, which is also called the de Broglie-Bohm theory, the pilot-wave model, and the causal interpretation of quantum mechanics, is a version of quantum theory discovered by Louis de Broglie in 1927 and rediscovered by David Bohm in 1952.
It is the simplest example of what is often called a hidden variables interpretation of quantum mechanics. In Bohmian mechanics a system of particles is described in part by its wave function, evolving, as usual, according to Schrödinger’s equation. However, the wave function provides only a partial description of the system.
This description is completed by the specification of the actual positions of the particles. The latter evolve according to the “guiding equation”, which expresses the velocities of the particles in terms of the wave function.
Thus, in Bohmian mechanics the configuration of a system of particles evolves via a deterministic motion choreographed by the wave function. In particular, when a particle is sent into a two-slit apparatus, the slit through which it passes and its location upon arrival on the photographic plate are completely determined by its initial position and wave function.
Figure 1: An ensemble of trajectories for the two-slit experiment, uniform in the slits.
(adapted by Gernot Bauer from Philippidis, Dewdney, & Hiley 1979: 23, fig. 3)
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-bohm/
When an ocean wave crashes on the rocks, the wave function collapses and it’s the water molecules that have kinetic impact and over time leave an observable mark.
Why are you mentioning no value?
Interference pattern is a metaphor for this conversation.
Sorry, where does Maloney’s perfect experiment use silver halide? I thought you meant at the other end, i.e. a chemical laser. Which slit eh? (Metaphorically speaking).
The photon - a quantum of energy - isn’t turned in to a physical particle, in to mass, i.e. an electron, it is turned in to a higher energy level in, of an electron. The conservation of energy is maintained.
The silver halide is on the photographic plate (the observer) behind the slits that records the interference pattern. When the photon strikes the plate the wave function collapses and the “particle” causes a chemical reaction to take place on the silver halide (the observation of the physical reaction).
I know that, where is that in the experiment?
And wave function describes, is position, no?
[quote=“martin-peter-clarke, post:89, topic:8020, full:true”]
I know that, where is that in the experiment?
And wave function describes, is position, no?
# wave function
physics
wave function, in quantum mechanics, variable quantity that mathematically describes the wave characteristics of a particle . The value of the wave function of a particle at a given point of space and time is related to the likelihood of the particle’s being there at the time.
Wave function | Definition & Facts | Britannica
However
Pilot wave theory
Couder experiments,[1][2] “materializing” the pilot wave model.
In theoretical physics, the pilot wave theory, also known as Bohmian mechanics, was the first known example of a hidden-variable theory, presented by Louis de Broglie in 1927. Its more modern version, the de Broglie–Bohm theory, interprets quantum mechanics as a deterministic theory, avoiding troublesome notions such as wave–particle duality, instantaneous wave function collapse, and the paradox of Schrödinger’s cat. To solve these problems, the theory is inherently nonlocal.
The de Broglie–Bohm pilot wave theory is one of several interpretations of (non-relativistic) quantum mechanics. An extension to the relativistic case has been developed since the 1990s.[3][4][5][6]
Pilot wave theory - Wikipedia
I like the fact that despite its theoretical proliferation of entities, de Broglie–Bohm theory is analogously validated by particle wave interactions ‘particles do act back on the wave function… In… experiment a drop of silicone oil… placed into a vibrating fluid bath… bounces across the bath propelled by waves produced by its own collisions, mimicking an electron’s statistical behavior with remarkable accuracy.’
1 Like
Re: photon mass.
This may clarify
LI. On the electromagnetic mass of a moving electron
E. Cunningham @ St. John’s College, Cambridge
Published online: 16 Apr 2009.
In either case the electromagnetic mass is defined as the > ratio of the external mechanical force on the electron to the > acceleration of the centre of the electron, and Abraham develops two expressions for the longitudinal mass, i. e. for the ratio of the force in the direction of motion to the acceleration dG I dW in the same direction, viz. : ~dv- and v ~ for the case of the so-called quasistationary motion, G being the electromagnetic momentum and ~V the electromagnetic energy.
For the latter case these two expressions are proved identical, but for the Lorentz electron they are not equal, and Abraham deduces that W cannot be the whole energy of the electron.
But the fact is that in this case, the mass as above defined is not equal to v1 ddW~v ’ this expression being obtained on the assumption that the electron is “rigid” (Theorie der Elek. it. p. 155). If the change in the shape of the electron with the change in velocity is taken into account, it will be found that the mass as obtained from the change in momentum is identical with the mass as obtained from the change in the energy, as it clearly must be since a quantity defined in a perfectly definite manner cannot from consistent equations be shown to have two different values.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786440709463712
What is the external mechanical force on photons?
There isn’t any AFAIK. However photons do exert an effect on the “observer”.
Photon
Like all elementary particles, photons are currently best explained by quantum mechanics and exhibit wave–particle duality, their behavior featuring properties of both waves and particles.[2] The modern photon concept originated during the first two decades of the 20th century with the work of Albert Einstein, who built upon the research of Max Planck.
While trying to explain how matter and electromagnetic radiation could be in thermal equilibrium with one another, Planck proposed that the energy stored within a material object should be regarded as composed of an integer number of discrete, equal-sized parts. To explain the photoelectric effect, Einstein introduced the idea that light itself is made of discrete units of energy. In 1926, Gilbert N. Lewis popularized the term photon for these energy units.[3][4][5] Subsequently, many other experiments validated Einstein’s approach.[6][7][8]
Photochemistry
Photochemistry is the branch of chemistry concerned with the chemical effects of light. Generally, this term is used to describe a chemical reaction caused by absorption of ultraviolet (wavelength from 100 to 400 nm), visible light (400–750 nm) or infrared radiation (750–2500 nm).[1]
In nature, photochemistry is of immense importance as it is the basis of photosynthesis, vision, and the formation of vitamin D with sunlight.[2] Photochemical reactions proceed differently than temperature-driven reactions. Photochemical paths access high energy intermediates that cannot be generated thermally, thereby overcoming large activation barriers in a short period of time, and allowing reactions otherwise inaccessible by thermal processes.
Photochemistry is also destructive, as illustrated by the photodegradation of plastics.
SsssOhhh, light experiences no electromagnetic mass.
As I understand it “energy” has an equivalence in mass.
The famous equation E = mc2 applies only to matter at rest . Matter in motion has kinetic energy in addition to that and the formula for total energy is given by (E/c)2 = m2c2 + p 2, where p is momentum. A photon is never “at rest” (its so-called “restmass” is m= 0) but it has momentum and energy: E = pc.
Moreover without energy how could a photon produce a photochemical effect?
Equivalence is the word. Without energy photons are meaningless. SsssOhhh, how fine tuned do the energies of photons evoking ‘orbital’ leaps, quantal electron energy level increases, have to be?
I thought of a better and more direct way of phrasing the original question.
How and what exactly causes the “effect transport speed through space-time” which can be measured in the speed of light and is described by c ?
Nothing needs to be fine tuned. It is a matter of a threshold event. It is like asking if the universe needs to be fine tuned for you to fall off a cliff when someone pushes you when you are standing on the edge.
It’s categorically nothing like that. It’s a reasonable question about the energy levels of photons and quantum ‘leaps’. If it’s a threshold then any excess energy insufficient to jump the electron to its next energy level must be in a re-irradiated photon. If the photon ionizes the atom of the electron, blows it out of ‘orbit’ entirely, I imagine all of the energy above the maximum orbital energy stays in the free electron.