Exempt our sense are fallible. There are optical illusions, temperature, audio, even touch based ones. How can you be sure what you see and experience is real And not a product of your imagination? Someone could say we are all figments of their imagination and we couldn't prove them wrong.Can you give me an example of what infallible senses would be? You just trollin' around here? You seem to repeat the same thing over and over without going into much detail.
You just trollin' around here? You seem to repeat the same thing over and over without going into much detail.He's an inadvertent troll. He wears out a little faster than some others, but yes, he's very repetitive. He doesn't want to do the work of thinking.
One thing no one can imagine is how these metaphysical concepts could come about, be it not for this rational, physical construct we call reality. Ooops. That's it. "I'm going to use all of these tools to prove that they(the tools) don't exist." Try again please.Exempt our sense are fallible. There are optical illusions, temperature, audio, even touch based ones. How can you be sure what you see and experience is real And not a product of your imagination? Someone could say we are all figments of their imagination and we couldn't prove them wrong. The opposite is true. The endless variety of subjective experiences rather confirms that we are not a pre-programmed illusion, OUR reality itself unfolds through the evolutionary process and in spite of our subjective and relatively different *experience* of what and how we observe it, what we observe IS reality because it is already happened and fixed in our past, no matter how brief or long ago. Reality is real, we just experience it differently. That only means our thoughts are the metaphysical imaginations. . That does not prove it true. It could all just be an elaborate ruse brought up by my own mind. Doesn't matter how endless (debatable) they are, it doesn't prove them to exist outside my mind. The whole universe could have been created yesterday with all our thoughts and memories and emotions, and we can't prove otherwise. You can't prove that what we observe is reality or that it happened. You can't prove it to be real. Your entire statement could just be another figment of my imagination.
You just trollin' around here? You seem to repeat the same thing over and over without going into much detail.He's an inadvertent troll. He wears out a little faster than some others, but yes, he's very repetitive. He doesn't want to do the work of thinking. If I could have solved this myself I would have. But I can't seem to prove things around me exist And are real outside the mind. My vision feels like I'm watching some kind of movie and everything seems imaginary. I can't prove otherwise either (I can't prove it is illusion either but that's irrelevant).
One thing no one can imagine is how these metaphysical concepts could come about, be it not for this rational, physical construct we call reality. Ooops. That's it. "I'm going to use all of these tools to prove that they(the tools) don't exist." Try again please.Thas not how it works. The point is I can't prove that everything around me isn't a figment of my imagination. I can't prove reality is real.
One thing no one can imagine is how these metaphysical concepts could come about, be it not for this rational, physical construct we call reality. Ooops. That's it. "I'm going to use all of these tools to prove that they(the tools) don't exist." Try again please.Exempt our sense are fallible. There are optical illusions, temperature, audio, even touch based ones. How can you be sure what you see and experience is real And not a product of your imagination? Someone could say we are all figments of their imagination and we couldn't prove them wrong. The opposite is true. The endless variety of subjective experiences rather confirms that we are not a pre-programmed illusion, OUR reality itself unfolds through the evolutionary process and in spite of our subjective and relatively different *experience* of what and how we observe it, what we observe IS reality because it is already happened and fixed in our past, no matter how brief or long ago. Reality is real, we just experience it differently. That only means our thoughts are the metaphysical imaginations. . That does not prove it true. It could all just be an elaborate ruse brought up by my own mind. Doesn't matter how endless (debatable) they are, it doesn't prove them to exist outside my mind. The whole universe could have been created yesterday with all our thoughts and memories and emotions, and we can't prove otherwise. You can't prove that what we observe is reality or that it happened. You can't prove it to be real. Your entire statement could just be another figment of my imagination. But it isn't because I did in fact write it. Of course you can reply that my assurance is just a figment of your imagination, whereupon someone else confirms that I wrote this, etc, etc, ad nauseam. A rock also doesn't know it is real, but if I drop it on your head, YOU know it is real. Can you imagine that?
Actually I don’t know if it’s real.
Actually I don't know if it's real.An, at least momentarily, wise man, once said "when it comes down to two beliefs, I’ll avoid the stupid one."
You just trollin' around here? You seem to repeat the same thing over and over without going into much detail.He's an inadvertent troll. He wears out a little faster than some others, but yes, he's very repetitive. He doesn't want to do the work of thinking. If I could have solved this myself I would have. But I can't seem to prove things around me exist And are real outside the mind. My vision feels like I'm watching some kind of movie and everything seems imaginary. I can't prove otherwise either (I can't prove it is illusion either but that's irrelevant). Because no one has solved it. ]
Actually I don't know if it's real.An, at least momentarily, wise man, once said "when it comes down to two beliefs, I’ll avoid the stupid one." But then, where would our humor come from?
You just trollin' around here? You seem to repeat the same thing over and over without going into much detail.He's an inadvertent troll. He wears out a little faster than some others, but yes, he's very repetitive. He doesn't want to do the work of thinking. If I could have solved this myself I would have. But I can't seem to prove things around me exist And are real outside the mind. My vision feels like I'm watching some kind of movie and everything seems imaginary. I can't prove otherwise either (I can't prove it is illusion either but that's irrelevant). Because no one has solved it. ] Thanks for identifying the condition.
But if I can’t know whether I or anyone else exists for certainty, then how do you go on living? Why bother learning, loving, building, any of that if it’s a chance it’s not real. If there is a chance people aren’t real, how could you love an illusion?
But if I can't know whether I or anyone else exists for certainty, then how do you go on living? Why bother learning, loving, building, any of that if it's a chance it's not real. If there is a chance people aren't real, how could you love an illusion?I think the computer/robotics industry is hard at work to make that a reality. It's called AI. ;-)
But if I can't know whether I or anyone else exists for certainty, then how do you go on living? Why bother learning, loving, building, any of that if it's a chance it's not real. If there is a chance people aren't real, how could you love an illusion?I think the computer/robotics industry is hard at work to make that a reality. It's called AI. ;-) That's not what I meant.
But if I can't know whether I or anyone else exists for certainty, then how do you go on living? Why bother learning, loving, building, any of that if it's a chance it's not real. If there is a chance people aren't real, how could you love an illusion?I think the computer/robotics industry is hard at work to make that a reality. It's called AI. ;-) That's not what I meant. I know. But the answer lies in the question itself. You are real (exist) because you are able to ask the question. Logically, you have to be real, because if you were not real (exist), you wouldn't ask the question.
That doesn’t prove I’m real though. It just proves thoughts. Not that there is a me having them or a body, or even an I.
Even then what of the rest of reality?
That doesn't prove I'm real though. It just proves thoughts. Not that there is a me having them or a body, or even an I. Even then what of the rest of reality?If thoughts exist then the *being* (existence in reality) producing these thoughts is real, if only mathematically at its most fundamental nature. But there can be no doubt that a *thought* cannot be produced without a thinking brain. Relativistically there are as many observed and experienced realities as there are sentient observers, but in most cases we now understand the relativistic nature of observation and experience and have agreed on many *common* areas of reality. We know the Doppler effect creates a different pitch in sound or color shift in light, depending on the the direction it is moving relative to your position. Why should this be necessary in a simulation? We would not know the difference. We also know some of the stuff that exists in the universe and how this universe formed and evolved all by itself, without any *illusions*, just stuff (elements), but with value in reality. Subjectively you may not be able to process the information you receive exactly like everyone else, but then, no one does. But that is not sufficient reason to question reality itself. I wear glasses and without them reality looks fuzzy, then I put them on and reality is clear and defined again, and all is well.
Actually I don't know if it's real.An, at least momentarily, wise man, once said "when it comes down to two beliefs, I’ll avoid the stupid one." But then, where would our humor come from? Where it has always come from. Pain. But that is off topic. Unless. What if pain is not real? Oh my gracious! What will I do? What if the pain that I had when passing that kidney stone was not real? I just don't think that I can go on, not knowing whether that pain was real. It's just too much to bear. Life is so meaningless not knowing whether it was real or not. Mercy sakes, what will I do?
But if I can't know whether I or anyone else exists for certainty, then how do you go on living? Why bother learning, loving, building, any of that if it's a chance it's not real. If there is a chance people aren't real, how could you love an illusion?The question kinda answers itself. It's kind of a worse version of Pascal.
That doesn't prove I'm real though. It just proves thoughts. Not that there is a me having them or a body, or even an I. Even then what of the rest of reality?If thoughts exist then the *being* (existence in reality) producing these thoughts is real, if only mathematically at its most fundamental nature. But there can be no doubt that a *thought* cannot be produced without a thinking brain. Relativistically there are as many observed and experienced realities as there are sentient observers, but in most cases we now understand the relativistic nature of observation and experience and have agreed on many *common* areas of reality. We know the Doppler effect creates a different pitch in sound or color shift in light, depending on the the direction it is moving relative to your position. Why should this be necessary in a simulation? We would not know the difference. We also know some of the stuff that exists in the universe and how this universe formed and evolved all by itself, without any *illusions*, just stuff (elements), but with value in reality. Subjectively you may not be able to process the information you receive exactly like everyone else, but then, no one does. But that is not sufficient reason to question reality itself. I wear glasses and without them reality looks fuzzy, then I put them on and reality is clear and defined again, and all is well. Actually it is enough reason to question reality itself. Because we see things different from objective reality (if there is one), it's proof our senses are fallible and misleading. For all we know it could be a dream and we wouldn't know it. As for thoughts, you cannot prove that they require a brain.