Seeking Truth - Need Help

Religion and Secularism
41

I would suggest being very careful about how you proceed here @dad1. I’m using blue text here, which means these come from a moderator. Note the “keymaster” under my name and “participant” under yours. Saying “get serious” is not an argument, it’s not logic, it lacks evidence. You are bringing up decent points, but many of us here have studied these points and discussed them before. You might want to either come up with something new, something we might not know, or listen.

No one knew Mark? Get serious.
Okay, when was he born? What was his last name? What did a non-Christian historian of that time say about him? Who were his friends, and did any of them write anything? The Bible was assembled in the third century, how did they “know” Mark? Where was this compilation of stories kept between 50AD and 210AD? Why were all the other writings not put in the Bible? Like the Gospel of Thomas?

You’re right, I can’t say close friends of his didn’t preserve stuff, but I can with total authority and all the proof of the world’s best scholars, say you don’t know who those friends were or where they kept it.

Boom
Since Satan exists, boom, he put those words to confuse us. You cannot claim that didn’t happen.
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Show us the verse where God says Christians should kill people? Gong! -- dad1
https://biblehub.com/exodus/32-28.htm
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@dad1

When people say things like ‘it is fiction’ or ‘it is fantasy’ they cannot support it.

I did support it, but you didn’t like the answer. It seems to me you have an agenda here on the forum.

As for the untold millions killed by godless unbelievers, of course they do not kill because God told them to

Let me fix that for you: As for the untold millions killed by religious believers, of course they kill because God told them to. Hitler was Catholic and very much a believer in a god. He killed 2 million Jews, as well as other Xians (Political prisoners) and that’s not even talking about the stories in the Bile where God told his followers to kill people.

god’ means nothing. Evil spirits are a dime a dozen.

You’re not really making any sense, because the Holy Trinity involves God The Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I don’t know what denomination you are, but obviously it is not Biblically based, which means it’s not actually Xian, because we’ve or at least I have, been using the stories of the Bile to explain to you why it’s not history or actually happened. If you like I can do chapter and verse, especially the different versions of the Marys at the tomb. Either way, it’s obvious you haven’t read even the KJV Bile. I can even give you chapter and verse where God told his followers to kill others, even cut babies out of mother’s wombs. The Bible is a really disgusting book. These are not acts of a loving deity, not even when he killed his own son, which was also him. That should tell you right there, is just more the same mythology as before, rewritten for a different group of people. Jesus is not different from Krishna, Ra/Osiris, etc etc. None of them were evil spirits, unless you want to call them that because they aren’t what you call “the one true god”, which is the same as before, but you are wrong about the character of Jesus, because he is considered and as been since Xianity was created, part of the Trinity, which I just explained to you. If you believe ‘god’ is an evil spirit, then you just shown you are not an Xian.

Before you go on a tirade about Xian, it is an abbreviation for Christian. X is part of the Chi Rho referring to Christ. The X is Greek symbolizing Chi and Christ. The Early Xians were conquers because God came to Constitaine in a “vision”. I think it would help you if you took a few religion courses, as well as learn some Greek, which was the original language of the New Testament, especially if you are going to go around evangelizing and trying to convert atheists.

and

Again, we’ve shown you why it’s fiction/fantasy/etc, but as @write4u says, the burden of proof is on you, because you are making the claims.

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-I did support it

Nope. Link to the support?

-of course they kill because God told them to

False. I read the bible and Jesus never said to do anything like that.

-You’re not really making any sense, because the Holy Trinity involves God The Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit

God is not the only spirit, there are also fallen angels. This is news?

-Jesus is not different from Krishna, Ra/Osiris, etc etc. None of them were evil spirits

Says you. Too bad God says something quite different.

1 Jn 1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

-you are wrong about the character of Jesus, because he is considered and as been since Xianity was created, part of the Trinity

Jesus said I and My Father are One actually. Same spirit.

-Xian, it is an abbreviation for Christian

So what? I don’t see that used by God do you? Some people may have sincere reasons for using the x, I don’t know. The appearances are that they cannot stomach Jesus or His name or hearing or saying it and want to cross it out a bit like ‘xmas’.

 

 

45

Jesus was born in Israel. When I say Jesus never said to kill that refers to Jesus on earth as a man who died and rose again, not to other situations with His people in another time and situation. We are in the age of grace now, and the job of a believer is to help people and preach the truth/gospel. Jesus never told anyone to kill anyone and killed no one when He was here. Period.

46

We do not know how God preserved the record He promised to get to us correctly! There is therefore NO reason to doubt that He did. Do you need that is blue writing!?

47
When I say Jesus never said to kill that refers to Jesus on earth as a man who died and rose again, not to other situations with His people in another time and situation.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished."

“For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.”

“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."

And, okay, maybe these aren’t that direct, but the whole idea is, God/Jesus will save some and the rest will not live forever in heaven. Pretty much the same as killing.

We are in the age of grace now, and the job of a believer is to help people and preach the truth/gospel.
Yep, you are doing that preaching thing. ""When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. "
Jesus never told anyone to kill anyone and killed no one when He was here. Period.
This is not such a great thing. It doesn't wash away all the other problems of Christianity.
48

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

That does not in any way mean that we are commanded to kill babies or other people. Another fail.

For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.

That was Paul, and he was talking about the armed police that enforce laws in the world. That was not Jesus telling us to kill people by any stretch of the imagination. Another fail.

Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

That was Jesus telling about how the world is divided between His people and the wicked and not even remotely connected to asking us to kill people. The word of God is like a two edged sword, again that does not mean we are to attack people with swords.

God/Jesus will save some and the rest will not live forever in heaven. Pretty much the same as killing

False. It is more like people killing themselves by refusing to be saved as He wishes!

When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

This has zero to do with hiding our light under a bushel rather than up where all can see it. That is not a verse telling people not to do what Jesus commanded us and preach the gospel. So far you have displayed a complete lack of understanding on spiritual matters. Thanks for the demo. Since you posted a threatening blue letter notice with a not so veiled warning that you are a moderator as well as a debater here, I will try to refrain from wasting my time enlightening you further. In my experience, soundly defeated moderators usually misuse the little power they have and try to silence/ban folks that actually know what they are talking about. Cheers…so if I don’t respond you know why.

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That was Jesus telling about how the world is divided between His people and the wicked and not even remotely connected to asking us to kill people.
Go to hell and fry for eternity.
50
Sure, sure, that's not like killing at all.
What it is, is wishing much worse that killing for people you don't agree with.

 

Why are you terrified of an ending to your life???

That’s what I’d really like to understand.

What make the thought of an eternal heaven comforting to you?

It’s sound like pure hell to me, though rather than burning, you’re locked up in a padded cell for the rest of eternity. It’s the stuff of the ultimate nightmare.

What on Earth is wrong with appreciating that, our Gods come from within ourselves, and when we die, we die.

Deep dark eternal sleep.

What after life we have, exists within the minds of others and the legacies we leave behind.

What’s wrong with that?

 

What’s so difficult about appreciating we were created by Earth and her evolution and when we die, we are reabsorbed into out Mother Earth?

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Welcome back CC.

52

God wishes no man to die. The wicked fight their way to hell with all their hearts despite the mercies offered to them along the way which they reject and trample. As for ‘appreciating’ that you think man came about by evolution, why would I care about your personal beliefs? Some people think they appreciate that the universe came out of a turtles rear end…etc. People are welcome to their beliefs but not welcome to pretend they are more than that.

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People are welcome to their beliefs but not welcome to pretend they are more than that.
I fully agree, but then you must admit that belief in god a belief among others, no more, no less.

There is no reason it be otherwise !

 

54

Truth is relative and something that must be sought by every individual in his / her own life. Truth in the spiritual sense of the word, can not be delivered in a paragraph or book necessarily or everyone would achieve enlightenment by reading that particular writing.

Seeking ever further truth is a life-long endeavor that involves the evolution of our perception over time as much as it might involve actively attempting to learn things from external sources.

55
Truth is relative
No. Truth is truth. Lies are lies. Jesus said He was the Truth. He is not relative, He is a Person. People's reaction and response to the truth may differ and be relative to what they choose to embrace and believe.
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I fully agree, but then you must admit that belief in god a belief among others, no more, no less.

There is no reason it be otherwise !


Yes we can believe in science, or/and a spirit we chose, or God. Not all beliefs or spirits are equal though.

57
People are welcome to their beliefs but not welcome to pretend they are more than that.
Then heed your own words. You display a totally unwarranted conviction that you know truth, yet you blindly dismiss science as revealing truth. That is a glaring attempt to elevate yourself above the rest and of course justifies your proselytizing. Truth is we've heard it all before and it is as unconvincing now as ever.

In your mind you are “special” and that is simply delusional. Anil Seth proposes that the majority of humans live by “controlled hallucination”, which of course is juxtaposed to a minority of humans living an “uncontrolled hallucination”. Make up your mind to what group you wish to belong to.

 

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Then heed your own words. You display a totally unwarranted conviction that you know truth, yet you blindly dismiss science as revealing truth.
Name any science that I dismiss! Try to be truthful.

 

That is a glaring attempt to elevate yourself above the rest and of course justifies your proselytizing. Truth is we’ve heard it all before and it is as unconvincing now as ever.
That is an insane response to what you quoted me as saying. I said you are welcome to your beliefs. Now if you think you can show them to be more than beliefs, in some other way than using the word science as if you were best buddies, then do offer support and evidence and details. (that beats insane accusations, strawman nonsense, and false claims about what I actually say)
In your mind you are “special” and that is simply delusional. Anil Seth proposes that the majority of humans live by “controlled hallucination”, which of course is juxtaposed to a minority of humans living an “uncontrolled hallucination”. Make up your mind to what group you wish to belong to.
Newsflash: not everyone has to belong to some idiotic made up group someone I never heard of made up!
59
Name any science that I dismiss! Try to be truthful.
Oh that's easy. I just addressed that very issue in the thread on Climate Change. Here it is;
You: An example of a fantastic difference in dates based on the starting beliefs used in interpreting radioactive ratios (in various ways and methods) is the time of the KT layer. I assume at the moment (subject to new evidence) that the flood year was probably around that time. If correct that means that in real time the KT layer was put down around 4500 actual years ago or so. The belief based dates science uses place that time at somewhere around 66-70 million years ago!
Read my response.
That is an insane response to what you quoted me as saying. I said you are welcome to your beliefs. Now if you think you can show them to be more than beliefs, in some other way than using the word science as if you were best buddies, then do offer support and evidence and details. (that beats insane accusations, strawman nonsense, and false claims about what I actually say
Contrary to your unsupported bluster, I do provide links to reliable scientific sites with every post I make that refers to actual science. Another example of your totally unpreparedness to hold an informed debate.
Newsflash: not everyone has to belong to some idiotic made up group someone I never heard of made up!
Exactly, you are totally uninformed in the scientific disciplines that are currently being discussed, and what's worse, you are unwilling to learn. Why are you here?

Anil Seth

Seth went to school at King Alfred's Academy in Wantage. He has degrees in Natural Sciences (BA/MA, Cambridge, 1994), Knowledge-Based Systems (M.Sc., Sussex, 1996) and Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence (D.Phil./Ph.D., Sussex, 2001). He was a Postdoctoral and Associate Fellow at The Neurosciences Institute in San Diego, California (2001-2006).
Career
Seth is Co-Director (with Prof. Hugo Critchley) of the Sackler Centre for Consciousness Science[2] and Editor-in-Chief of Neuroscience of Consciousness.[3] He was Conference Chair of the 16th Meeting of the Association for the Scientific Study of Consciousness and continuing member 'at large'[4] and is on the steering group and advisory board of the Human Mind Project.[5] He was president of the Psychology Section of the British Science Association in 2017.[6][7]
Publications
Seth has published over 100 scientific papers and book chapters, and is the Editor-in-Chief of the journal, Neuroscience of Consciousness.[3] He is a regular contributor to the New Scientist, The Guardian,[8] and BBC,[9] and writes the blog NeuroBanter.[10] He also consulted for the popular science book, Eye Benders, which won the 2014 Royal Society Young People’s Book Prize.[11] An introductory essay on consciousness has been published on Aeon – The Real Problem – a 2016 Editor’s Pick. Seth was included in the 2019 Highly Cited Researchers List that was published by Clarivate Analytics.[12]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anil_Seth
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@Lausten. @ #346431

?


@Dad1.  @ #346433
<blockquote>God wishes no man to die.</blockquote>
What a bunch of out-of-this world malarkey.  Death is an inherent part of life.  If you can't come to terms with the simple reality - that is that death also possesses a degree of sanctity and is a necessary part of life's survival, it's no wonder you turn your back on physical reality.
<blockquote>The wicked fight their way to hell with all their hearts despite the mercies offered to them</blockquote>
What mercies does your god offer?
<blockquote>People are welcome to their beliefs but not welcome to pretend they are more than that.</blockquote>
So why are you assuming that rule doesn't apply to you?

At least I respect that my convictions are the product of my brain processing the information that I've become familiar with?

@Dad1 #346508

Name any science that I dismiss! Try to be truthful.
Anthropogenic Global Warming and where it's taking our planet, and the society that depends on a healthy biosphere.

Geology

Biology

Evolution