Seculiarism and Death.

"Mummy, what happens after we die?” Many parents have been asked this kind of question, and it is often difficult to know how best to reply. Should you be open about your own beliefs – whether they are religious, agnostic or atheist?

Even kids know that dead people, or their pets, cannot move or see because their bodies have stop moving. Should you be dogmatic or acknowledge the uncertainties of life and mystery of death? Being honest can mean admitting that there are some things that nobody can know and that others may hold very different views. This approach will encourage tolerance of others’ beliefs, support children’s naturally strong drive to make sense of the world and inspire an appreciation of its wonder and mystery. (Adapted from an article in Neuroscience.)

But Sree,

that is an assumption that death brings with it a mystery of “what happens after death”.

IMO, that is a false assumption on the basis of assigning a form of spiritual mystery to individual consciousness which is a product of individual physical brain processes.

No one disputes that when you die your body buried or burnt. In both istances the physical body, including the physical brain cease to exist.

So the mystery surrounds only the question about consciousness. But being that consciousness is a product of the physical brain, the death and destruction of the brain ends the conscious existence of that individual.

If the individual was a prominent figure in society, the memory of his existence and works may remain in the brains of the living. We even erect statues in their honor to remember his life. This is his enduring “legacy”, but it cannot be identified as the dead person’s “soul”, as if the soul has life of its own.

Such an imaginary spiritual existence is referred to as a Tulpa in Buddhism.

Tulpa

Tulpa is a concept in mysticism and the paranormal of a being or object which is created through spiritual or mental powers.[1] It was adapted by 20th century theosophists from Tibetan sprul-pa (Tibetan: སྤྲུལ་པ་, Wylie: sprulpa) which means "emanation" or "manifestation".[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa

So IMO, when a child asks “mummy what happens after we die” the only (almost) true answer is “if you have been a good person all your life, you will always be remembered by the people who knew you and who have reserved a little place in their heart (mind) just for you”.

 

Write4U:

But Sree,

that is an assumption that death brings with it a mystery of “what happens after death”.


 

Death itself can be mysterious.

 

Death itself can be mysterious.

No, that is a made up question. Causes of death are well established, much more so than causes of life.

For instance, the human organism is unable to digest its own food and extract the nutrients it needs for survival and has to rely on bacterial symbionts to do that job for us, else we would die from starvation.

Ever had digestive problems? That is most likely due to an imbalance of beneficial bacteria in the digestive system. We take probiotics to restore the balance.


What are probiotics?

Probiotics are live microorganisms that are intended to have health benefits when consumed or applied to the body. They can be found in yogurt and other fermented foods, dietary supplements, and beauty products.

Although people often think of bacteria and other microorganisms as harmful “germs,” many are actually helpful. Some bacteria help digest food, destroy disease-causing cells, or produce vitamins. Many of the microorganisms in probiotic products are the same as or similar to microorganisms that naturally live in our bodies.


What types of bacteria are in probiotics?

Probiotics may contain a variety of microorganisms. The most common are bacteria that belong to groups alled Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium. Other bacteria may also be used as probiotics, and so may yeasts such as Saccharomyces boulardii.

Different types of probiotics may have different effects. For example, if a specific kind of Lactobacillus helps prevent an illness, that doesn’t necessarily mean that another kind of Lactobacillus or any of the Bifidobacterium probiotics would do the same thing.


https://nccih.nih.gov/health/probiotics/introduction.htm

In the science subforum check out my links to video presentations on Youtube by Bonnie Bassler. This is really interesting stuff.

For instance did you know that bacteria can communicate with each other and use chemicals which the produce as words . Their language is called “quorum sensing” and is kind of like a hive mind.

Quorum sensing, mechanism by which bacteria regulate gene expression in accordance with population density through the use of signal molecules. Quorum sensing allows bacteria populations to communicate and coordinate group behaviour and commonly is used by pathogens (disease-causing organisms) in disease and infection processes. Bacterial activity involving quorum sensing was first observed in the mid-1960s by Hungarian-born microbiologist Alexander Tomasz in his studies of the ability of Pneumococcus (later known as Streptococcus pneumoniae) to take up free DNA from its environment.
https://www.britannica.com/science/quorum-sensing

All living organisms carry populations of beneficial bacteria to help them cope with their environment. This is why living organisms are often referred to as microbiomes.

The human microbiome is the aggregate of all microbiota that reside on or within human tissues and biofluids along with the corresponding anatomical sites in which they reside,[1] including the skin, mammary glands, placenta, seminal fluid, uterus, ovarian follicles, lung, saliva, oral mucosa, conjunctiva, biliary tract, and gastrointestinal tract. Types of human microbiota include bacteria, archaea, fungi, protists and viruses. Though micro-animals can also live on the human body, they are typically excluded from this definition. In the context of genomics, the term human microbiome is sometimes used to refer to the collective genomes of resident microorganisms;[2] however, the term human metagenome has the same meaning.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_microbiome

The more one learns about nature, the greater respect one gains for the wonderful interaction of natural potentials. It’s all very mathematical, but the results are pure natural artistry. Hence the expression “Natura Artis Magistra” (nature is the teacher of art (and science)

I have literally never asked, been asked or head any child ask that question. I believe it is important to accept death for what it is early on so that you may be well adjusted as an adult and not fall for any snake oil that promises you that you’ll never die.

Widdershin:

I have literally never asked, been asked or head any child ask that question. I believe it is important to accept death for what it is early on so that you may be well adjusted as an adult and not fall for any snake oil that promises you that you’ll never die.
That's you. Accepting death with no understanding of this phenomenon is what people do. This is why death is still a mystery.

There’s nothing after death, just as there is nothing before birth. So what’s there to tell a kid but the truth?

Mriana:

There’s nothing after death, just as there is nothing before birth. So what’s there to tell a kid but the truth?


 

Can you not just tell the kid that you don’t know?

Mriana said that there is nothing after death. How does she come to that conclusion? Putting ghosts and spirits aside, for the moment, and dismissing them as superstitions, what is the basis for claiming that one vanishes at time of death? The doctor can certify the death of the body. Only Mriana can prove, empirically, that there is nothing after her direct factual experience of death. To do that before the fact is conjecture. To assert that without proof is unscientific and inconsistent with the principle of critical thinking.

Sree said,

Only Mriana can prove, empirically, that there is nothing after her direct factual experience of death. To do that before the fact is conjecture. To assert that without proof is unscientific and inconsistent with the principle of critical thinking.


Of the billions of people who have died, how many have returned to tell you or anyone else their after death story? Seems to me that would surely make headlines around the world.

The only story of a physical resurrection is in the bible but even then no one actually ever talked to Jesus except for a person who claimed to have seen Jesus in the guise of being a gardner. Moreover, the story becomes ever more complicated by the introduction of Jesus having become a Nephelem, who then descended back to earth and pretended to be a gardner.

By the overwhelming evidence that no person has ever returned from the dead, why do you question the “educated guess”, supported by the entire medical profession, that it is impossible for any person to become resurrected after death, except perhaps as fertilizer for a rose growing on a grave.

I have no problem with allegory and metaphor, but when the story assumes that I am an imbecile who can be fooled into believing things that are logically and scientifically impossible, I tend to make my protestations known.

IMHO, this is no longer dwelling in reality but in a delusional make believe world. I am sorry, but I cannot be kind about this.

You sound much to intelligent to believe that Beowulf slew Grendel or that Jesus was born male by immaculate conception or that people and Dinosaurs lived at the same time. These a fairy tales and cannot help you in time of real need for scientific or medical assistance.

Write4U: “Of the billions of people who have died, how many have returned to tell you or anyone else their after death story? Seems to me that would surely make headlines around the world.”

There have been hundreds, if not thousands, of people who have been declared by medical people and later came back to life. Surely you know many have come forward with claims of experiences during their time of being dead. Some of their stories have been quite compelling. Whether you choose to believe them is up to you.

I wouldn’t expect anyone to accept such claims without at least some reservations unless he or she has had a similar experience. Even then, without a way to reproduce the experience there will always be questions and some uncertainty.

Some of their stories have been quite compelling.
Actually no. They have all included symbolism that the person gained in life. They are like dreams.

And has there ever been one from three days after being declared dead?

Bob said,

There have been hundreds, if not thousands, of people who have been declared dead by medical people and later came back to life. Surely you know many have come forward with claims of experiences during their time of being dead. Some of their stories have been quite compelling. Whether you choose to believe them is up to you.


Question: How long were they dead without access to oxygen to the brain? This is a critical measurement, because after the brain dies from lack of oxygen the person cannot be restored to consciousness, ever.

OTOH, if the heart stops and the patient is medically dead (at that time) the brain still has sufficient oxygen to survive about 15-20 minutes without incurring brain damage. If during that time a heartbeat is restored the patient will just wake up as from a dream.

This occurs quite often when a person has a heart attack and is practically dead when he arrives in ER. After administering nitroglycerine and using electrical shock in most cases the heart can be revived and blood flow restored . During this time the brain may well be partially conscious and experiencing all kinds of disoriented experiences, such as bright lights, ghostly images, sounds, but those are not experiences from beyond the grave.

After the brain dies and brain cell destruction sets in, a person ceases to exist and no amount of artificial life supports can bring that person back to consciousness. If they manage to keep the body alive by artificial means as in an iron lung, the body will be alive but the person will be in a vegetative state.

Anil Seth recounted a story where he was under anesthesia (a chemically induced partial unconsciousness), and for the duration of the operation he ceased to be a person. When he came back he had no idea of how long he had been uncoscious. It could have been a 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 years or 50 years. All sense of time had disappeared. Was he dead and resurrected? No, the subconscious part of the brain which keeps the body alive was always functional. It was his conscious mind which was rendered unconscious but not dead that caused him to mentally cease to exist as a person. He was just an object during that time.

The point is that when the brain ceases to function and has used all its remaining oxygen, it begins to experience catastrophic brain damage from which one cannot recover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyu7v7nWzfo&t=8s

 

 

Children are at an important stage of development, so they should always be told the truth. The truth is that no one knows what, if anything, to expect after death. Heaven, hell, resurrection, reincarnation or evolution, but one thing is for sure. The truth is some people believe in each of these things and no one knows for sure but if you don’t tell them the truth they will suspect your own bias and be more curious to examine other explanations that they may come across and then they may fall into delirium believing in global warming or some other nonsensical form of science witchery.

Watch out when they start exploring eastern spiritual practices, that’s the first sign. Also reading, very dangerous.

Imagination is a double edged sword.

If it is based on proven scientific principles, it is good for finding functional truths. If it is based on unscientific principles, it is good for writing fictional fables…

David Leon, Are you for real? Sadly, I am guessing you are? Tell me you are just being satirical, about children becoming delirious from “science witchery” nonsense like “global warming”.

As far as what awaits us post death, best guess, odds on favorite answer: Nada.

David is a troll. I’ve warned him a couple times, but he’s fairly harmless. He asserts things without evidence. When he does present evidence it’s convoluted and sometimes flat out false. Any attempt to discuss how truth is discovered is met with scoffing, bordering on insults. He engages in conversations then leaves them when he runs out of responses. I don’t really know what his schedule is, so I can’t say that he’ll never respond to the many questions and comments dangling out there, but the odds diminish as the days go by.

@Lausten I know how unbelievers operate. I would be glad to address any questions I may have failed to address. There’s only one of me compared to what? 4 or 5 of you.

That’s right @TimB, I’m real.