I would be interested to hear how you got to make that claim
Sorry and many thanks
I don’t open this box once a month and just got your message.
And i agree, these definitions change and change again.
150 years ago, to be a liberal Republican made you a leftist.
40 years ago, not to be a liberal republicain meant you were ultraright,
Today…
The claim “with a decent education system teaching critical analysis, no need to censor” is more of a principle than something I could prove with data. The data would be spread out over the last 500 years of refining scientific methods and arguments could be made about problems with that.
In principle, if enough people are able to make quality decisions then political discussion could handle bad information. Even people who weren’t well educated would know people they trust to help understand complex issues. I’m making some assumptions here about what “good” and “decent” mean. It would take critical analysis to determine that. That might sound circular but it’s not.
The question was on your claim that the meaning if left right has changed. Dont waste space writing something i wont read if you cant answer the question
Don’t complain because your question wasn’t clear
I began to answer.
I am of two minds.
In the political space, from an historical point of view, right and left definitions have changed.
When fascists get more than one third of the popular vote, I make a difference between a fascist and a liberal republican, who is not a fascist.
For the “ Rassemblement national “ of le Pen, left begins with Macron.
And to block the ultra right, an agreement will be needed. From a strategical point of view, one must distinguish the main enemy at a given time, from the secondary one.
And from another point of view, I fully agree with cutslikeaknife
To be an anti-fascist is not enough to make one a leftist. To be on left means at minimum, that you agree to curb the excesses of capitalism, let us say to be a social democrat.
And i know that for a “true” Marxist, such a social democrat is not a leftist, as he is not for the proletarian revolution.
The political ideology of a liberal republican is …….. ( drum roll } ……
I was speaking from an historical point of view and i appreciate you don’t contest my whole painting.
He cannot answer. Why bring it up ???
Political ideology of lib republican
Key Tenets of Liberal Republican Ideology:
- Economic Conservatism: They advocate for limited government interference in the economy, supporting free enterprise, fiscal responsibility, and free trade.
In what universe would someone characterise this as left
Sorry, i was thinking of liberal in the European sense.
For instance, in France, at the end of the 19th century, and at the beginning of the 20th, Liberal republican instituted freedom of press, freedom of trade union, freedom of association, legality of strike, secularism.
They were far from perfect, but it was progress. And, in their times, they were seen as on the left.
Given the evolution of nowadays politics and mainstream ideology, i am not sure that to promote these freedoms and values will not put you on the left soon.
No source. You make things up.
Liberal Republicanism in 20th-century France was a political tradition primarily situated on the centre-right, combining liberal economic principles with a commitment to the republican form of government
. This tradition evolved from the “moderate republicans” of the 19th century into several key political organizations throughout the 20th century, often supporting parliamentarism and individual liberties while opposing socialism and, at times, popular nationalism.
Key Philosophies
- Economic Liberalism: Advocates of free markets and limited state intervention, especially prominent in the late-century DL party led by Alain Madelin
Sorry for the lack of sources, for me, being French it is basic knowledge
Law of 1901, about freedom of association
Sorry, no Wikipedia paper in English about this law
And i fully agree that liberal is a word with a double meaning, political and economical.
Old liberals were liberals , mostly both in economy and politics.
Nowadays, no more in too many cases. Economic liberals have learnt they don’t need democracy.
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Do they advocate for free markets comrade ?
Who, they ?
Liberal Republicans from the1880th-1910th, yes
Classical Liberals, yes
Modern Liberals, yes
Modern Illiberals as Musk, no !!! They are against free market, and sate regulations, but for the freedoms of their monopoles.
Between 1945 and 1975, most Liberals were for free market, but recognized the need for state régulations, and a compromise between workers and capital.
Nowadays, not many economic Liberals do believe in that.
Are these people on the left.
From an absolute point of view, using our modern criteria, i would say no.
Bur from a relative point of you, given the historical situation and the dynamics of classe struggle, they could have been.
And nowadays with the rise of fascism and autoritarisme, we need their support, and to compromise with them.
As Staline made compromises in the1930th.
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Then how can they possibly be called left serious guy
In their times, they were, facing Monarchists and Bonapartists. And i gave you some very leftist laws they passed '( trade union, association, strike, press, secularism). I never said they were perfect.
And nowadays, when Ultra-right get almost 40 % of the popular votes, they are at the left of ultra-right. And they are necessary allies for the left.
Property is theft was the mantra from the left at that time. NOT WE WANT A FREE MARKET ECONOMY.
You dont know what you are talking about.
Yes, property is theft, and that’s irrelevant.
Revolution is not dogmatism. Revolution needs
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priority to the facts; if Trump telle me that weather is fine and warm, i check, and if weather is fine and warm, i say yes weather is fine and warm
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the concrete analysis of concrete situations;
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the ability to identify developments, contradictions, and power dynamics through dialectical analysis,
and not to impose pre-established and abstract frameworks on a shifting reality.
Now to be honest, i feel that greater or smaller than mine, your knowledge is useless, as you are unable to apply this method.
Please, these attacks on people participating here are mean and useless. Would you abstain ?
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That doesnt follow
Can you explain how this
has something to do with left wing politics?
Priority to the facts upon ideology, if you are a left wing activist, you want to change society. If you don’t give priority to the facts in your analysis, you will not understand the situation, and you will fail. If you lie to the people, you don’t educate them, you don’t lead them to freedom, but to servitude, and the day they understand you lie, you have lost.
that which constitutes the very gist, the living soul, of Marxism-a concrete analysis of a concrete situation by Lenin. Is not Lenin a left-wing writer, whatever be his crimes?
And about dialectic as a tool for left-wing politics?
May be i know less than you, but i have read many books, among them Marx and Lenin.
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