But it never fits. What’s your standard? What test did you apply? Where’s your data? Even if you did all of that, that’s not what an evidence based site is for. It’s for learning, sharing perspectives, and demonstrating your point of view, objectively.
The ability of American citizens to defend and hold on to American’s principles. Such as the importance of honesty in public dialogues about existentially important matters. Accepting pluralism as where society has evolved to in an overcrowded world.
Election result paint a bleak picture, honesty is out, totalitarian me, me, me thinking is in. That’s really a danger sign for the future - I can’t be as casual about our self-destruction as others. But guess it’s the will of the people - eh? Or do they even know what they have done?
The Christian Right in the Republican Party: The Case of Pat Robertson’s Supporters
John C. Green and James L. Gut
The Journal of Politics
Vol. 50, No. 1 (Feb., 1988),
https://www.oah.org/tah/november-5/evangelicalism-and-politics/
If that’s the case shouldn’t CFI folks be putting more effort into the defense of serious science and especially of the need for honesty and truth in public policy discourse?
Of course all of us lie sometimes,
but to make it morally okay to lie, that is another matter altogether.
Also remember how you formulate your questions, dictates the quality of the response.
I didn’t make lying morally right.
If you want to critique CFI, go ahead. Be specific.
I didn’t say you did it. But the entire GOP certainly has.
MAGA is created out of lies and hysteria fabrication, lead by FOX faux news, Limbaugh, BreitBart, Christian Nationalists, Obama birtherism, climate science trashing, etc., etc…
But my experience shows me there’s no point to the exercise, critique is frowned upon, it simply irritates people, and then they get all torked and self defense and don’t’ even bother to hear what one is saying.
What does that have to do with this conversation
That’s a dodge. I ask for specifics and you vaguely wave an arm around
It’s moribund and with little interest beyond a few die hards who seem to have run out of things to discuss. Not sure how many more specifics you want.
For the grand view - Since Democrats and Gore gave up on their election win, (yeah sure long before, but…), the progressives have done little to nothing since to stand up and try to change minds. Even though what was happening with the Christian White Suprematist movement and their faith-driven, self declared war on rational secularism and our rule of law, with its checks and balances - it was clear to see for all who dared look.
Nothing - where were the people trying to change minds and confront the lies and raise the fundamental questions and issues facing our society and way of looking at life.
To discuss, instead it was melodrama and deception, to the point that we are numb and blind to it these days.
I’m just complaining about a general apathy, and no one knows what to do.
So okay, you’re right, I was bad again, I should not blame CFI for it, and I didn’t mean to sound so harsh, mea culpa.
Well, you are right about the state of the left …
Between mainstream left, unable to connect anymore with the people, and the radical left prisoner of itself and his search for perfect rightness, left is out of the field and unable to mobilize its voters.
For the main left, the movement began with Truman.
I remember reading a few years ago a paper analyzing the speechs given by the democrats candidates the day they were designated by the party, since Truman.
Each of them was less and less leftist and less and less appealing to the ordinary people. And the people voted less and less. The two stats are parallel.
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Yeah, it’s a long sad story. Sort of an inverse thing, the more we were swept up into Hollywood Dreaming, the less we cared about the nuts and bolts of keeping our ship of state in trim.
We cared less and less about the need to remain informed and engaged, our government of the people, by the people, or democracy would die. How fast and easy it has happened.
We are reentering an era where people want to do the worst and destroy, having not a smattering of an awareness of how this path can lead to nothing but serious, ugly, wide spread self destruction. To learn what the Russian people have long had to learn for ourselves, what a monstrosity totalitarianism is. Same lesson the Germans had to learn - and now to hear these hapless MAGA full of glee and behaving like wind up dolls makes me want to cry.
Buy 'em books and buy 'em books and all they do is eat the covers.
Public Support for Democracy in the United States Has Declined Generationally
Christopher Claassen, Pedro C Magalhães
Public Opinion Quarterly, Volume 87, Issue 3, Fall 2023, Pages 719–732,
It would be an interesting exercise to go down to Main Street and ask random people if they’ve heard of “Robert’s Rules of Order” - and how many know what it is.
But we dare not show frustration, or wonder where were all our great minds, the thinkers, the philosophers and pundits and other talking heads, during the past decades of degeneration?
A lot of self adulation, progress is god, keep racing forward it is all we can do, it is our destiny.
Filling us with reassurance and always looking to the future, leaving our day to days behind because the mundane was boring, we were going to conquer the universe, it was our destiny. Bothering to care about and learn about what it takes to feed all of us, or what our incredible global heat and moisture engine was all about, and what we were doing to it. It was simply too much bother, get with it lad, there’s a party going on! . . .
…
…
Now with a little help from some friends, I’ll peel myself off the floor and get on with today. 
I forgot I had started this Piketty discussion here. This thread has gone into the usual degeneration, so I’ll leave the conclusion over here:
BTW, in response to the old news about civic being down
I don’t think it’s the candidates that are the big problem,
it’s messaging, and informing, and engaging and helping Democrats network and cross motivate each other, with some serious information and arguments that strike to the core of the Right Wing oligarch deception.
If Democratic leaders aren’t changing minds, we are losing.
We have people in charge now, who profess to have a personal relationship with God Almighty - I mean why isn’t that sort of crazy hubris not target one?
God is beyond human understanding, and all that.
How can anything change, if we don’t change attitudes.
A healthy democracy demands an informed and engaged electorate - where is that happening? Sure there’s Indivisible but it’s pretty much white bread and old folks and there are other organization I’m not familiar with, but I’m reminded of pasta, it’s not enough to stave off starvation.
Democrats need some invigorating, but that’s tall order in today’s world.
Heck, I can’t seem to find anyone who has the slightest interest in A Democratic Party online Forum. To help inform and build community. I would think it’s worth the effort
But, no one else seems to.
If Democrats aren’t changing minds, we are losing.
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Where have you looked?
All over, including those three, sorry not impressed, including directly into Democratic Party offices, and on the Colorado convention floor - if you’re demanding some bona fide.
Can you highlight anything that’s goes beyond motivational talks and the same old?
I sent out over 1500 of these postcards - At the county Democratic convention before the election, I was derided, “don’t I realize the Abortion Issue has been handled?” Yeah, we saw how well Democrats handled things. It seems like no one wants to stand up and say: Damit, YES a woman’s life is more important than an unborn fetus, a potentiality!!
If we can’t even muster that, how is kumbaya going to work in a government run by cynical, lawless utterly ruthless group?
In Defense of Women (v.3) - postcard advocacy
I mean not one response, So what’s wrong with it, does it misrepresent anything? Is it too politically incorrect?
Heck you can’t even bring yourself to acknowledge that I’m talking about stuff like opening up to the lie of a Personal God. Why not? Since, that really is at the root of today’s brainwashed masses of grievance filled US Constitution haters and freshly minted Putin supporters.
Well okay, the price of gas and food might be more important than god.
Right behind our unwillingness to face up to our self-absorbed nature, and self-serving actions.
Followed by that most fundamental need to take on Earth as a partner.
Of course, we don’t need to - and probably won’t even try to do any of that, just don’t be surprised when it ends in utter collapse.
The same old same old hasn’t worked, but it seems to be good enough for you.
What?
Are you talking to me?
What did you expect from an online forum?
Not bad at all.
Just an hesitation: for me abortion is not an issue up to the point the fetus can breath and live autonomously
Interesting tidbit.
The destruction of a fertilized human egg is murder.
The destruction of a fertilized chicken egg is an omelette.
I would not trey to make an omelette with a 18 days hatched egg.
Some insist that at moment of fertilization the egg IS a human with human rights and privileges.
IOW, when a fertlized egg is aborted at any state, the female becomes a serial killer. It happens often because very few fertilized eggs actually make it to maturity.
The situation is crazy!!
Miscarriage is the most common complication of pregnancy in the United States, occurring in 15–20% of clinically-recognized pregnancies , or 750,000–1,000,000 cases annually.
And many women miscarry without even having know they were pregnant. Religious ideologues are mad.
But, when they come to power, women suffer, because many miscarrying women are suspected of abortion, and doctors are afraid to treat the cases as they should be, afraid of being suspected of being abortionists.
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