Nah, most hunters would ask you if you need dynomite to go fishing too, if you used an assault rifle to hunt. They’d all be laughing at you whether I know them or not.
Yes, we most definitely need to do something and I think banning ARs would be a very good start. You truly cannot use them for hunting.
I find it horrifically frightening that you actually have to explain that to people.
Of course guess the fantasy of turning a living curious animal into into hamburger splattered all over the landscape, just like in them video games, is the ultimate jack-off for some.
I do too. I’m not a hunter, but I know an AR wouldn’t leave one with much worthwhile food after using it on game.
I don’t know much about the relationship between violent video games and mass shooting, but I do know that the military uses some games to train with. Of course that is not the end all and be all of the training. Those in the military, who use ARs, are well trained, supervised, and they must return those weapons at the end of the training or the tour of duty. They can’t keep them.
it’s not like we haven’t been studying this.
Importantly, they need to be implemented on a national level
Permits
Magazine capacity – note, this is not “assault rifle”. The type of gun is not the problem. Unfortunately this gets touted and gun rights people laugh at it. It’s a distraction
Universal background checks in concert with the permits
Violent criminals should not have guns, even a misdemeanor.
Red flag laws.
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[Mass shootings across the U.S. leave dozens killed or wounded this weekend : NPR]
And the blood bath is fed …
Note one quote from that article:
Glick and his colleagues also examined 20 mass shooters who died at the crime scene and found that eight had schizophrenia, seven had other mental health diagnoses, and five had unknown diagnoses. None were receiving appropriate medications.
It doesn’t go so far as to say, “None were receiving any psychiatric medication.” A bit vague. They may have been receiving medication, but because they committed a shooting, was it deemed inappropriate? More of my speculation, of course, but it seems that statement could be less vague.
But getting back to the point, besides some of the methods people have suggested in this thread for preventing gun violence, I think it would be extremely helpful if the powers-that-be would stop gaslighting people.
It’s universally accepted that mental health problems can be caused my mental and emotional abuse. It’s universally accepted forms of that are often the act of lying to someone. It’s universally accepted (reported even in the mainstream media) that government officials, employees or executives of corporations, employers, etc. sometimes lie.
The established authority needs to stop attempting to convince people who have trouble (extreme or otherwise) coping in our society that they have a mental illness. While it may be true in some cases, the vast majority of cases are overdiagnosed.
This doesn’t entirely support that claim, but you may raise your eyebrows to find that 10% of children in the US are diagnosed with ADHD.
ADHD meds don’t lead to higher grades or more learning, FIU study finds
Another example that might raise eyebrows (or only one if you’re a Vulcan)
Treating children for bipolar disorder
Doctors increasingly agree that some of these children have bipolar disorder. Once thought to be exceedingly rare among children, the problem is being diagnosed more frequently and at younger ages than ever before. A small but growing group of psychiatrists say they are treating children as young as four for bipolar disorder, prescribing mood-stabilizing drugs and antipsychotics that have rarely if ever been used on patients so young.
The number of children diagnosed as bipolar rose 26 percent from 2002 to 2004, to 19,776 cases in a database of 113 million anonymous patient records kept by health-care information company NDCHealth Corp. Increased use of antipsychotic medicines, such as Seroquel and Risperdal, was a big driver of pediatric drug costs last year, according to pharmacy-benefit manager Medco Health Solutions Inc.
I believe that anyone with common sense, or a very basic understanding of psychology) will know that you could create mental health problems in an otherwise health individual if you can convince them they have mental health problems. Of course that becomes even more true when the victim is a vulnerable, impressionable child.
It would be far more effective for authority figures to acknowledge the deceit and to reform the mental health care system.
Again, I’m not saying that people with mental health issues are generally more dangerous, but it would vastly decrease the amount of violent crimes (or misdemeanors) by people whether or not they’ve ever been diagnosed.
Also… people would generally be able to cope with the stresses of life and society better. Oppression and lies are no way to run a railroad.
Moreover, the political gambit now is to blame marijuana use for increasing violence.
“Reefer Madness” is making a comeback in spite of the medical data that shows marijuana does in fact yield opposite effects such as combatting autism, epilepsy, and anxiety from daily stresses…
Their motto is; “more gun violence”? Well, what we need is more guns!"
Utter madness has gripped a large portion of the American public, especially the white nationalistic kind.
There is a gathering darkness. Let’s hope it does not turn into thunder and lightning. i
Yes, med compliance is always a thing (or actually not a thing) among people with a mental illness. People in general do not like taking meds OR they chose to self-medicate and by that I mean they do illicit drugs, which make them feel better than an Rx or not feel at all.
The woman with schizophrenia, who was taller than I am (most people are) and threatened to nail me into the floor when I was working as a psych tech, was off her meds- thus why she was readmitted. It took two bouncer type orderlies to take her down and dosed her with haldol. I was quickly turned off of working in the mental health field, but not just because of her though.
Just as it’s not a politician business to go into a gynecologist/obstetrician’s office and dictate what sort of medical care a woman can or cannot have, they shouldn’t be in the mental health field either. However, I do think a mental health eval should be done before getting a gun and license for it.
Makes sense. Since you don’t associate with people that hunt you don’t know their opinions on guns. But AR15s are pretty common with hunters.
As that relates to gun violence though, I don’t understand how the math adds up. There are more psych meds available and prescribed now than 20 or 30 years ago. Patient compliance would have been as much a problem then as it is now, but fewer drug options were available, which would seem to indicate a patient wasn’t even prescribed meds (because they didn’t exist yet), or if they were, the treatment regimen would have consisted of older, less effective medication. Shouldn’t there have been more gun violence prior to the skyrocketing availability and consumption of psych medication?
I agree. Furthermore, I don’t believe a doctor should have the power to dictate whether a woman has an abortion, or whether a patient takes meds. Discuss, yes, but not dictate. I don’t believe other people should have the power to decide about other peoples bodies or minds. If meds were safe and guaranteed effective, then no problem. But they are only sometimes effective and sometimes dangerous, sometimes permanently (if any one of you ever sees a person with known mental health problems exhibiting involuntary facial twitching, please be aware that it’s not necessarily caused by mental health problems, but may be caused by medication to treat mental health problems).
No they are not. That’s like using dynamite to fish. Just because I don’t personally know hunters, I do listen and hear them talk. It would seem you don’t know hunters because they don’t use ARs to hunt. Stop making false claims.
Oh but then how else would they be able to bully us into getting their way, at our expense.
Dysfunctional households create dysfunctional children, creates troubled and spooky adults.
That’s what’s to be expected when a society is taken over by the sort of Lord of the Flies mentality, that the GOP and especially thee Great trumpster and his crowd of enablers exemplifies.
Exactly. That’s how medicine should work- the doctor discusses and educates the patient on their options, not dictate, and then the patient decides what they will do. Of course some decisions are easier than others. If you have a sinus infection, antibiotics are a course of action most people take.
There maybe, but that doesn’t mean patients are med compliant. Case in point, my son has bipolar, but he doesn’t like the meds because they make him feel depressed all the time. He loves the highs of his bipolar though. In order to have the highs and not feel the lows all the time, he avoids meds. He doesn’t like guns, so his highs won’t lead him to that, but some people with a mental health issue do and don’t take meds.
I don’t think they could get guns back then if they were Dx with a mental illness. I think that changed recently. However, it’s always been the case, if they end up in the hospital and act up in the hospital, they are forced, restrained by several staff and injected with haldol or some other medication to sedate them. Basically, they are forced fed meds. There was a pregnant women in the hospital I worked at and she was screaming in anger, nothing more and they restrained her and gave her a shot of haldol. When I asked about it, they said her behaviour would have done more harm to the baby then meds. I doubt that, since she was just screaming in anger.
I can tell your stories that will probably turn you off of mental health care. It did me.
Tardive dyskinesia is still a common issue concerning mental health meds. If you listen to the ads, they do mention symptoms of tardive dyskinesia. Yet they don’t want the patient to stop the meds… at least not until they talk to the doctor who Rx the med(s). This makes med compliance a problem. People won’t keep taking a med that causes them to jerk and twitch involuntarily. While not on the level of seizures, it’s still not right. If given a shot of haldol or alike drug, that is supposed to last for several days in one’s system, the first few days patients can have involuntary facial movements. It’s not something most people want or will tolerate.
They had to use DNA to identify the children after the dude shot them with an AR. This is what ARs do to a child’s body and it’s why no hunter hunts with such weapons:
Blockquote What this brings up to me is that the number-one cause of death in children between the ages of 1 and 19 is gun violence. That statistic, when I read it in NEJM the other day, just made me cringe.
KInda nuts. I’ve heard people say, and I’m talking about soccer moms saying this, that the odds of a child being killed at school is very low. I always thought, okay, but some numbers should be zero. We should be able to go a full year without a child being shot at school.
But this, never heard this one. Kind of puts a whole different spin on that “low odds” thing. What really gets me though is the cry for wanting responsible people to be able to own guns supposedly overrides imposing on them to take a test to get a permit, but who pays for that? Not the poor old guy who can’t have his gun, but the kid who gets killed by it.
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Exactly. Sometimes the kid and the parents pay more and the gun owner gets a way, because ya know, gun rights and all that stupid crap. Either that or they shoot him (often a guy) and that’s the end of story, but it’s not for the family.
You don’t know hunters but you do hear them talk? Try harder not to sound like a moron.
It depends on your definition of “hunter”, doesn’t it?
There are Bow hunters, the most honorable hunting practice that requires the hunter to stalk his prey to get close enough for a single effective bow shot. If he misses the prey is gone.
Then there are Black Powder hunters who basically have the same challenge as the bow hunter, but are able to fire a single shot from a somewhat greater distance.
Then we have the Modern hunter who has a high powered rifle capable of killing at a great distance, which requires great skill in long-distance targeting for a single killing shot or else severely wound the prey and have to track it sometimes for days while prey is suffering great pain
Then there is the Sunday hunter who takes his AR 15 with 30 rounds and just aims and sprays the target with enough bullets to kill a small herd.
Then there is the well regulated Militia who are trained in warfare and mass killing at any distance but only use their AR 15 in defence of their nation against a foreign enemy.
And then there are the Insane hunters who actually do use their AR 15 to kill a group of innocent people, just for sport.
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