Hello friends,
I titled this thread the way I did because what I am sharing is truly a revolution in thought which has major implications for the betterment of mankind. Before you read further, I need to let everyone know that this knowledge lies locked behind the door of determinism. The idea that man’s will is not free is a difficult concept for some people to swallow but it actually is the answer to many of the ills plaguing our world. I hope people contain their skepticism enough to learn what this is about.
You won’t find much skepticism of that subject around here. Look around here in the Philosophy forum. There are several long threads on free will. We differ on the nuances.
Hello friends, I titled this thread the way I did because what I am sharing is truly a revolution in thought which has major implications for the betterment of mankind. Before you read further, I need to let everyone know that this knowledge lies locked behind the door of determinism. The idea that man's will is not free is a difficult concept for some people to swallow but it actually is the answer to many of the ills plaguing our world. I hope people contain their skepticism enough to learn what this is about.From the wiki on process philosophy here] Time, causality, and process
Inherent in each actual entity is its respective dimension of time. Potentially, each Whiteheadean occasion of experience is causally consequential on every other occasion of experience that precedes it in time, and has as its causal consequences every other occasion of experience that follows it in time; thus it has been said that Whitehead's occasions of experience are 'all window', in contrast to Leibniz's 'windowless' monads. In time defined relative to it, each occasion of experience is causally influenced by prior occasions of experiences, and causally influences future occasions of experience. An occasion of experience consists of a process of prehending other occasions of experience, reacting to them. This is the process in process philosophy. Such process is never deterministic. Consequently, free will is essential and inherent to the universe.Bold added by me.
Except for kkwan. He always takes the lunatic fringe view.
Except for kkwan. He always takes the lunatic fringe view.From the wiki on ad hominem here]
An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments. When used inappropriately, it is a fallacy in which a claim or argument is dismissed on the basis of some irrelevant fact or supposition about the author or the person being criticized.Is process philosophy "the lunatic fringe"? Your prejudice is showing, DarronS. :cheese:
You won't find much skepticism of that subject around here. Look around here in the Philosophy forum. There are several long threads on free will. We differ on the nuances.I hope that people are already leaning toward determinism, as it will make it easier for me to explain this author's proposition.
Hello friends, I titled this thread the way I did because what I am sharing is truly a revolution in thought which has major implications for the betterment of mankind. Before you read further, I need to let everyone know that this knowledge lies locked behind the door of determinism. The idea that man's will is not free is a difficult concept for some people to swallow but it actually is the answer to many of the ills plaguing our world. I hope people contain their skepticism enough to learn what this is about.From the wiki on process philosophy here] Time, causality, and process
Inherent in each actual entity is its respective dimension of time. Potentially, each Whiteheadean occasion of experience is causally consequential on every other occasion of experience that precedes it in time, and has as its causal consequences every other occasion of experience that follows it in time; thus it has been said that Whitehead's occasions of experience are 'all window', in contrast to Leibniz's 'windowless' monads. In time defined relative to it, each occasion of experience is causally influenced by prior occasions of experiences, and causally influences future occasions of experience. An occasion of experience consists of a process of prehending other occasions of experience, reacting to them. This is the process in process philosophy. Such process is never deterministic. Consequently, free will is essential and inherent to the universe.Bold added by me. That sounds to me like determinism, not free will.
Since time is of the essence, I thought it might be better to explain my reason for being here. I am trying to bring to light a discovery that was made in 1959. The author was not a member of a leading university and held no distinguishing titles, so he could not get his foot in the door to explain what he had discovered nor could he get conventionally published. No one wanted to invest in an unknown author. Therefore, he was forced to self-publish. At that time self-published books were not taken seriously. On top of that, everything he did to promote his work was out of pocket which eventually became prohibitive. He passed away in 1991, and I am trying to get his work noticed. It has never been given a careful review or been thoroughly investigated. The book is entitled: Decline and Fall of All Evil by Seymour Lessans. You can go to Amazon and read the sample to see if it interests you. As I already expressed, this knowledge lies locked behind the door of determinism. You can also hear the author read and elaborate on the first chapter of his 6th book. He gave me 12 tapes in the 70’s and I had them converted to CD’s and then an mp3. Just go to the website under the heading: Beyond the Framework of Modern Thought and scroll down. I am looking for reviews, so if anyone would like to participate please let me know. I also know that with any extraordinary claim, there needs to be extraordinary proof. He did not come to this finding through empiricism, so if people criticize him for this, they should not read further. His findings came from astute observation and sound reasoning. This does not mean his findings are unfalsifiable, but it would have to be a simulated environment to prove that his observations were correct. Just to warn people ahead of time, he uses the word God throughout the book, but he does not refer to God as something supernatural. My hope is that as huge as these claims are people will give him the benefit of the doubt and not jump to premature conclusions.
You still haven’t gotten to the point. I managed to read part of the sample and almost fell asleep. I have little patience with authors who devote multiple pages telling me how revolutionary their idea is. Don’t tell me how smart you are, tell me your idea, Mr. Author.
peacegirl, please post a short synopsis of what this Earth-changing idea includes and how it will save our civilization. I’m not going to buy the book to find out.
The author did get to the point but you’re not willing to invest the time to find out. The fact that he makes extraordinary claims does not mean he’s wrong for making them especially if he is right in his analysis. How do you know his findings are not revolutionary if you don’t know what they are? The author demonstrates why man’s will is not free, and then extends this knowledge into every area of human relation. Philosophers down through the ages looked at determinism and could not get past the implications for if man’s will is not free, we cannot blame. The question becomes: How in the world can we not blame people who hurt us, and wouldn’t this make man even less responsible? This impasse has been a difficult stumbling block to overcome since blame and punishment is the cornerstone of our civilization. I cannot give a quick synopsis as it will not do this work justice. You fell asleep that fast? Sorry to have bored you.
peacegirl - You’re missing the point. Spit it out already. This is a forum, not a book sales site. Summarize this author’s ideas briefly here. If we find it interesting maybe we’ll pursue it further as you suggest. But if you’re not even willing to summarize things here, then forget it. And even something as revolutionary as General Relativity could be summarized sufficiently here to provoke discussion. So unless this author’s ideas are even more revolutionary than that just spit it out here.
Reminds of those multi page flyers about how to get rich quick. 8 pages of stories of people who quit their jobs and used the secret method, then the last page tells you the secret is to send in $30 to get another pamphlet that tells what the secret is.
peacegirl - You're missing the point. Spit it out already. This is a forum, not a book sales site. Summarize this author's ideas briefly here. If we find it interesting maybe we'll pursue it further as you suggest. But if you're not even willing to summarize things here, then forget it. And even something as revolutionary as General Relativity could be summarized sufficiently here to provoke discussion. So unless this author's ideas are even more revolutionary than that just spit it out here.I did spit it out. I gave a short overview of what the book is about. He demonstrates why man's will is not free and then goes on to show how a world of "no blame" (please don't jump to conclusions as people are wont to do) will bring us a world of peace, not chaos. To repeat: These findings came from astute observation and sound reasoning, not empirical testing. A lot of philosophers believe that empiricism is the only way to truth, so I'm sure this will not interest them. How can you expect an important discovery such as this (if his claims are valid, which they are) in a few sentences? Do you think it's fair to discuss someone's 30+ year work with such reductionism? Srsly!! This is not my first rodeo and I know how people think in these forums, which is unfortunate because it is these very people who could understand this book but only if they understand it in its entirety which will take more than a cursory look.
This is not my first rodeo and I know how people think in these forums, which is unfortunate because it is these very people who could understand this book but only if they understand it in its entirety which will take more than a cursory look.If you know, why are you trying then? This is a forum to discuss ideas. So if you have ideas, then bring them. If they are difficult ideas, then be prepared to invest time here, so you can explain the detailed answers on our questions and objections. But don't expect us to invest our time only on the promise that a set of ideas will solve all problems of humanity. There are many more people who think they have ideas that will save the world than there are ideas that do save the world. So forgive us our scepticism. Show us what these ideas are, and what they are worth, or let it be. And if you get angry, then obviously you blame us, which would mean you can't even put these ideas into practice.
That sounds to me like determinism, not free will.More like indeterminism. From the wiki on indeterminism here]
In science, most specifically quantum theory in physics, indeterminism is the belief that no event is certain and the entire outcome of anything is a probability. The Heisenberg uncertainty relations and the “Born rule", proposed by Max Born, are often starting points in support of the indeterministic nature of the universe.
That sounds to me like determinism, not free will.More like indeterminism. From the wiki on indeterminism here]
In science, most specifically quantum theory in physics, indeterminism is the belief that no event is certain and the entire outcome of anything is a probability. The Heisenberg uncertainty relations and the “Born rule", proposed by Max Born, are often starting points in support of the indeterministic nature of the universe.Just because we don't know how an event is going to manifest itself does not mean there is not a reason behind the outcome. We just don't know it. Regardless of the quantum physics theory, this author is discussing human nature at a macro level and it is absolutely spot on.
This is not my first rodeo and I know how people think in these forums, which is unfortunate because it is these very people who could understand this book but only if they understand it in its entirety which will take more than a cursory look.If you know, why are you trying then? This is a forum to discuss ideas. So if you have ideas, then bring them. If they are difficult ideas, then be prepared to invest time here, so you can explain the detailed answers on our questions and objections. But don't expect us to invest our time only on the promise that a set of ideas will solve all problems of humanity. There are many more people who think they have ideas that will save the world than there are ideas that do save the world. So forgive us our scepticism. Show us what these ideas are, and what they are worth, or let it be. And if you get angry, then obviously you blame us, which would mean you can't even put these ideas into practice. Getting frustrated does not mean I'm blaming anyone. And, fyi, there is no way you can judge my reaction as proof that these principles don't work when the conditions of the environment change. That's placing the cart before the horse. I do forgive your skepticism but I am tired of people not meeting me half way. I offered everyone the website where they can listen to the author reading and elaborating on his first chapter of his sixth book. I also told people where to go to read a sample of the book. At the very least you will have a basis upon which you can ask legitimate questions. Why should I have to reinvent the wheel by explaining this chapter in an inferior fashion? I also made it into an ebook so people wouldn't have to pay much to read it. Is $4.99 for a 600 page book a rip off? http://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-All-Evil-Important-ebook/dp/B00ONA7JVQ/ref=sr_1_1_twi_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1426170541&sr=8-1&keywords=decline+and+fall+of+all+evil
Why should I have to reinvent the wheel by explaining this chapter in an inferior fashion? I also made it into an ebook so people wouldn't have to pay much to read it. Is $4.99 for a 600 page book a rip off? http://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-All-Evil-Important-ebook/dp/B00ONA7JVQ/ref=sr_1_1_twi_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1426170541&sr=8-1&keywords=decline+and+fall+of+all+evilAs mentioned earlier, this is a discussion forum not a place to peddle your wares. All you have done is repeat the claims in the first chapter of the book, that this ground-breaking idea will change the world. We asked you to explain the idea and you doubled down with the claim but refuse to discuss the philosophical breakthrough. Nice try, but I ain't buying.
Why should I have to reinvent the wheel by explaining this chapter in an inferior fashion? I also made it into an ebook so people wouldn't have to pay much to read it. Is $4.99 for a 600 page book a rip off? http://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-All-Evil-Important-ebook/dp/B00ONA7JVQ/ref=sr_1_1_twi_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1426170541&sr=8-1&keywords=decline+and+fall+of+all+evilAs mentioned earlier, this is a discussion forum not a place to peddle your wares. All you have done is repeat the claims in the first chapter of the book, that this ground-breaking idea will change the world. We asked you to explain the idea and you doubled down with the claim but refuse to discuss the philosophical breakthrough. Nice try, but I ain't buying. I wish I had the desire to continue, but based on the reaction so far I don't know if I can. I can almost predict how people are going to respond and it's disheartening considering the fact that no one will even take a half hour of their time to do what I asked so we could have a productive discussion. I know there are a lot of trolls out there, and this thread probably sounds a little crazy to someone not familiar with this knowledge, but it's really not. If anyone has a legitimate question based on Chapter One, I would be more than happy to answer you.
Just because we don't know how an event is going to manifest itself does not mean there is not a reason behind the outcome. We just don't know it. Regardless of the quantum physics theory, this author is discussing human nature at a macro level and it is absolutely spot on.Events can happen without "a reason behind the outcome". Can you explain the author's "revolution in thought" concisely and explicitly?