Redwood trees and evolution

Pseudoscience and the Paranormal
1

We have proof that redwood trees have 6 strands of DNA. This is impossible given evolution, for if this were the result of evolution, then all life would have this trait. If it is failure of evolution, then on evolutionary grounds, it wouldn’t exist. This leaves only technological intervention, and I claim proof of both malevolence and intelligence. Further I think that the fact of the threes shows that the universe expanding is going to continue until there is a terminus. At some point the tree will alter and its current form will shatter; this will happen because the effective subsidy that provides it with the ability to exist out of the Sun via hyperspace—which has to exist to permit the subsidy to happen—will run out. I wonder what the effect of the disaster will be, and how will it help to kill off the remaining humans?

Since we have to have a massive climatic difference when this form of subsidy stops, I also wonder if the current state of agriculture can continue. We have altered the plant based food supply through farmer breeding for crop increase. If this is also subsidized, then that too will simply cease to exist. In the light of this I wonder that the idea that there could be other evidence of non-human intelligence. Whatever they are, they don’t need to interfere with us in any direct manner. If there is other evidence, I feel confident that we will overlook that also.

2

So, aliens. That clears it up.

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I understand that there is going to be disagreement over what caused them, but I did prefer to have a discussion since we have no means to state accurately what did cause them. I agree that I would prefer that we had an answer, but what do you think–given evolution as a barometer from which to decide where they came from—caused such an unlikely event? Rather than dismiss it out of hand because I don’t prefer the answer since it implies that something has a problem with us in that whatever it *is* isn’t giving interviews, looking to score points in a chat environment, and isn’t giving any clues as to the reasons it would cause redwoods.

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Why do you think it is so unlikely that evolution does not explain it?

5

Do scientists have a theory of how this came about? (Alien intervention simply doesn’t sound convincing to me)

8:26 AM

Claude responded: Yes, scientists have a pretty solid natural explanation!

Yes, scientists have a pretty solid natural explanation! Based on the search results already retrieved:

The coast redwood’s ancestors all have paired (diploid) chromosomes, so researchers investigated how it evolved into a hexaploid. (Save the Redwoods League )

The leading theory involves a process called autopolyploidy — essentially, chromosome sets multiplying within a single ancestral lineage rather than through alien intervention (reassuringly). Phylogenetic analysis indicates that Sequoia sempervirens is an autopolyploid — meaning the hexaploidy arose from within a single ancestral species rather than from hybridization between different species. (NIH )

How does that actually happen? Occasionally during cell division, chromosomes fail to separate properly — a process called non-disjunction — and offspring end up with extra full sets of chromosomes. In plants especially, this can be surprisingly survivable and even advantageous. Aneuploidy (changes in chromosome number) occurs in redwoods, where occasionally a chromosome is lost or added, suggesting ongoing chromosomal flexibility in the species. (Twist Bioscience )

The prevailing view is that this hexaploidy has been a survival advantage rather than a liability. Redwoods may survive thanks in part to their unique polyploid genome — having six copies of each gene likely provides tremendous redundancy and resilience, allowing the trees to adapt to disease, stress, and environmental change over their extraordinarily long lifespans. (Twist Bioscience )

So it’s a well-understood natural mechanism, even if the end result — a tree nearly 400 feet tall with a genome nine times larger than ours — does seem almost otherworldly.

Indeed they are, long, long ago I was privileged to be able to spend some time getting to know one grove in particular and develop a personal connection with those giant. It’s tough hugging those tree, but the fascinating soft bark makes it fun to try.

Brings back wonderful memories of living in Wawona (Yosemite NP) a nice three hour hike up to the Mariposa Grove of Redwood. Even got to experience a couple days of working a wildfire line up there, back in '75ish.
Back then it was still, able bodied men showing up at the YNP office, registering and climbing on the truck. Without a doubt the most exhausting work I’ve ever done. The burning woods keeps one’s adrenaline running full steam, while the body and muscles still have their limitations. Out running one’s headlights comes to mind.

Like taking a exuberant sprint down the block in Silverton, only to discover you are nearly at 10’000 and the air is very thin, and it isn’t replenishing your body’s need, as one is sucking in air for all it’s worth, while worrying you might just drop dead right there.

Excuse the digression of an old man reminiscing, and rescuing this comment from simply being a cut and past.

Cheers

6

What subsidy?

I don’t know how much of a discussion we can have. But a good start might be to explain what that first quote is about? How you arrived at it? and, Do you have any evidence, or is this simply a mental exercise?

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I see that people would prefer to have a neat answer about how this might have happened, but just be cause you prefer to think that an unusual event in evolution can happen just one time, and never in the available evidence on anything—even everything else—is there any evidence that this 6 strand DNA is replicated anywhere else. The law of Serendipity applies here. Just because we would prefer that an essentially miraculous event took place because we would prefer to assume that this one off event is somehow different than would be required in a test of the idea of hexaploid evolution happening all the time, doesn’t mean that there is evidence that this is that. I am distrustful of unique events happening in evolution. I can understand that people would prefer that there be an answer to the question. That doesn’t mean that there is such a neat conclusion. I don’t like the idea of aliens, and I fail to see evidence of any arrivals or other interventions, but I am unwilling to permit a miracle, with our without faith, to the answer for why this tree exists. As for why I see things this way, I am unwilling after using RET to find out how I feel and think about the fact, that there is nothing there. I admit that it is my thought of what might be, and I doubt that there will be scientific research into the why of this, as there is no immediate benefit under the capitalist system, since the use of the tree as a market subject means that finding it useful for market purposes means that I am unlikely to win any argument regarding military responsibility. I simply note that using the Law of Serendipity, there is no answer without using an outside of our planet set of resources. I can see that people will invent hexaploid variation, and I simply fail to see why this can’t be a function of evolution for everything else; if this is true evolution, then why not us as well?

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Bread wheat, kiwi, and sweet potato have hexaploid dna.

9

I real tried to make sense of those 350 words, but could not manage it.

What subsidy?

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My wording may have been a little dense. I suspect, or hypothesize that there is interaction at an energy level between hyperspace, as part of physical space. I think that this could explain why the sky is relatively clear at night if you live in a dark sky section of the country. Yet during the day, the sky is opaque, and also generally blue. I suspect that over time, as the universe expands and the energy cost of dealing with hyperspace is likely to increase, that alterations will occur. I even predict that a time will arrive—possibly several hundred thousand years from now—when the sky is as transparent during the day as it is at night. This would mean that any interaction between the ecosphere and the Sun using hyperspace as part of its energy transfer will cease, and the universe will become even more unforgiving and cold to our entreaties. Hopefully this will see an end to religions that fail by even the mild differences between atheism and Mahayana Buddhism. I suspect that the trees are defined by the current status of easily available energy to exist. If they require energy from hyperspace (the “subsidy”), then that will vanish. It is the uniqueness I find disturbing. I would prefer to never have aliens involved in discussions. Since if they exist, and have shown no interest in visiting us—kidnap stories aside—then I find it hard given the unforgiving nature of reality to define what they do, or their reasons for failure to interact. If there is hyperspace, then transit is less than impossible, and they could visit, or initiate commercial interaction, etc. But, nothing yet. I do therefor wonder if there is reason for this to be p[ossibly true, yet hidden in a manner that defies reasonable explanation. I can’t find it, but I choose to err on the side of human potential and progress. The current attempts by President Trump to declare a fascist theocracy follow the usual steps that such a creation emerges from. I feel badly that there is anything of this sort going on at all, but in the dim light of even a chance of outside interference, I choose to take up the cause of thinking, and trying to get any idea that can bring about debate to pay attention.

11

I will have to look that up.

12

This is possibly one of weirdest things I’ve seen posted here. Not because it’s outrageous or fantastical but because it’s so entirely banal. The reason the why is blue.

I wish I could write it off as a joke, or trolling, but I’m not sure even AI would come up with this if you asked it create a pseudoscientific theory.

An interesting twist.

The usual standards of being disruptive or abusive will apply to this account.

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Sorry you already lost me. What hyperspace? Where did that come from? What is it doing? How would it “transfer energy”? What kind of energy? Why would it impact us?

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Hyperspace is a theory about dimensions beyond the 3 we interact with. It doesn’t have special energy. It’s also a sci-fi thing, which is probably confusing donald.

15

Okay, my bad, I thought we were talking Redwood trees and genetics.

Thanks for the heads up.

(FWIW_that dropping quotes thing, never has gotten better.)

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