For those in this thread who might be unfamiliar with peacegirl, her father wrote a Big Book of Crazy that she has been hawking online for more than a decade. Among many other of his fanciful delusions, he didn't like vaccinations, and said in the "Golden Age" that would emerge after his "Three Discoveries" were acknowledged, doctors would not need degrees or even training, because people wanting to be doctors would know themselves whether they could do the job or not, and hence would never be doctors unless they knew they could do the job! Reasoning with peacegirl is futile. Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time, and it annoys the pig.David, he never mentioned vaccinations EVER! I brought this issue of vaccinations up, not him. You are such a fool! Yes he did, liar. You may have altered the text since then, of course. I added the text on vaccines. In the beginning of the book I said, as his daughter and owner of the copyright, I have the right to offer examples to further clarify this knowledge. As the steward I did a good job of making sure the basic concept was not altered in any way. Of course you added the text on vaccines! Just like you changed his "molecules of light" to "photons." Just like you completely rewrote his demented idea that in the "New World", it would be "mathematically impossible" for husbands and wives to share the same bed! Of course you rewrite stuff by someone you claim is infallible. You don't even see the contradiction in that. You are out of your mind, but quite amusing, as always! :lol:
But I saw this episode of The Brady Bunch on YouTube. They all had measles and they just stayed home and played games.I had measles as a kid. I don't remember playing games. I don't remember much of it at all. I guess fever can do that. And now, 50 plus years later, I am a physical mess. Damn measles. (Or, perhaps, damn sedentary lifestyle). Ya, your mess might be related to something else so don't blame it on what you aren't sure about. I had measles too. I don't have brain damage … :lol:
I had measles as a kid. I don't remember playing games. I don't remember much of it at all. I guess fever can do that. And now, 50 plus years later, I am a physical mess. Damn measles. (Or, perhaps, damn sedentary lifestyle).Ya, your mess might be related to something else so don't blame it on what you aren't sure about. I had measles too. I don't have brain damage … :lol: First point, the 'Brady Bunch' was a TV show played by actors following a script, what were the writers trying to portray? What the Brady Bunch did on a TV show had nothing to do with reality. TimB's experience is much more real and should be taken into account. That Peacegirl doesn't have brain damage is questionable, just look at her posts over 13 + years on various forums. And she is still hawking her fathers joke of a book, surely that says something about her mental state.
For those in this thread who might be unfamiliar with peacegirl, her father wrote a Big Book of Crazy that she has been hawking online for more than a decade. Among many other of his fanciful delusions, he didn't like vaccinations, and said in the "Golden Age" that would emerge after his "Three Discoveries" were acknowledged, doctors would not need degrees or even training, because people wanting to be doctors would know themselves whether they could do the job or not, and hence would never be doctors unless they knew they could do the job! Reasoning with peacegirl is futile. Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time, and it annoys the pig.David, he never mentioned vaccinations EVER! I brought this issue of vaccinations up, not him. You are such a fool! Yes he did, liar. You may have altered the text since then, of course. I added the text on vaccines. In the beginning of the book I said, as his daughter and owner of the copyright, I have the right to offer examples to further clarify this knowledge. As the steward I did a good job of making sure the basic concept was not altered in any way. Of course you added the text on vaccines! Just like you changed his "molecules of light" to "photons." Just like you completely rewrote his demented idea that in the "New World", it would be "mathematically impossible" for husbands and wives to share the same bed! Of course you rewrite stuff by someone you claim is infallible. You don't even see the contradiction in that. You are out of your mind, but quite amusing, as always! :lol: Using examples to explain a concept is not forbidden David. I am glad I have this excerpt in the book to show that until vaccinations can be proven to be 100% safe and effective, no doctor, CDC, FDA, or manufacturer, in good conscience, will want to tell a parent what they should do. All they will do is explain what they know to be the benefits and risks of vaccines (and admit when they don't know what those risks are long term) and let the parent decide for themselves. IMO, having a government mandate that a vaccine must be injected into your baby is not ethical and there is now a wave of rebellion against this growing practice.
For those in this thread who might be unfamiliar with peacegirl, her father wrote a Big Book of Crazy that she has been hawking online for more than a decade. Among many other of his fanciful delusions, he didn't like vaccinations, and said in the "Golden Age" that would emerge after his "Three Discoveries" were acknowledged, doctors would not need degrees or even training, because people wanting to be doctors would know themselves whether they could do the job or not, and hence would never be doctors unless they knew they could do the job! Reasoning with peacegirl is futile. Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time, and it annoys the pig.It doesn't matter what you say because people are not stupid David! Some people are stupid and some are not. You are in the former category. Stupid as shit.
The interesting thing is that you can't accept that determinism is not a modal fallacy.As I've explained to you umpteen times dating back to FF, I never said that determinism is a modal fallacy. Dumbass.
Stephen pointed this out to you. Did you listen? Of course not, because that would make all of the praise you give yourself thinking you did anything of your own free will null and void! :lol: Why do you follow me all around the internet David? Are you that bored? Your effort to ruin Lessans' reputation will not work because the truth always wins!Stephen agrees with practically nothing you have said, and has already repudiated your BS on how conscience supposedly works. In fact, Stephen agrees more with me than you. My only difference with Stephen is a disagreement on "could not have done otherwise" (him) and "would not have done otherwise" (me). Did you not notice that Stephen also :lol: at Lessans' claims on light and sight? Have your children read Lessans' book yet, peacegirl? %-P How can he disagree with something he didn't read or have any exposure to David? The disagreement you have with Stephen is central to the discussion because you are trying to deny that determinism is a fact by your "modal fallacy" accusation. You are claiming that under the same exact conditions Lincoln did not have to be assassinated. Isn't that what you are claiming? Stephen was very clear where you are in error. You just can't bear the thought that you won't be able to take credit for being the genius (ha) you think you are. :lol:
So, I guess you’re not “looking into” the study on autism that you say someone blew the whistle on, huh? Did you look at the link provided? Do you have a counter argument, or will you admit you are wrong on at least that one point? (top of pg 5 link says “Here ya go folks”)
So, I guess you're not "looking into" the study on autism that you say someone blew the whistle on, huh? Did you look at the link provided? Do you have a counter argument, or will you admit you are wrong on at least that one point? (top of pg 5 link says "Here ya go folks")Nope. Now that she has been caught out lying (again) here is what she'll do: disappear for a while and hope everyone forgets her lie. (Disappearing for a while is what she is doing now.) Later she'll come back, and change the subject. If people rub her nose in her lie, and post irrefutable proof of it, she'll brazenly deny that she lied or ever made a mistake of any kind at all. That's how peacegirl rolls. She's exactly like her father: a chip off the old blockhead.
Pec of Uliar and BreakUp
This discussion as a while seems unproductive since no one is being influenced to any appreciable degree by anyone else’s arguments or evidence. Nevertheless, if people want to keep banging their heads on the same brick wall, everyone is required to adhere to the rules while doing so.
But I saw this episode of The Brady Bunch on YouTube. They all had measles and they just stayed home and played games.I had measles as a kid. I don't remember playing games. I don't remember much of it at all. I guess fever can do that. And now, 50 plus years later, I am a physical mess. Damn measles. (Or, perhaps, damn sedentary lifestyle). Ya, your mess might be related to something else so don't blame it on what you aren't sure about. I had measles too. I don't have brain damage although the people following me would easily use this as lulz. Now I am forever immune to the illness. This is in contrast to the often dangerous side effects from the vaccination itself. I'm sorry but there needs to be more investigation as to the safety and efficacy of the vaccine schedule. There is so much emotion in this debate that I don't know if any discussion will be productive. You don't, yet, understand the vagaries of my sense of humor. I was being facetious about blaming my current maladies on having had the measles. Personally, I welcome debate on the vaccine issue. (Also, I think that I see the issue, to some extent, both from the concerned parents' as well as the concerned medical professionals' perspective, while not being emotionally caught up in it.) I doubt that your reputation will be beneficial to the anti-vaccine stance, but your perseverance on an issue will certainly give it expression.
So, I guess you're not "looking into" the study on autism that you say someone blew the whistle on, huh? Did you look at the link provided? Do you have a counter argument, or will you admit you are wrong on at least that one point? (top of pg 5 link says "Here ya go folks")I notice you are always making assumptions. I don't have time to read the link until later. Then I will get back to you.
But I saw this episode of The Brady Bunch on YouTube. They all had measles and they just stayed home and played games.I had measles as a kid. I don't remember playing games. I don't remember much of it at all. I guess fever can do that. And now, 50 plus years later, I am a physical mess. Damn measles. (Or, perhaps, damn sedentary lifestyle). Ya, your mess might be related to something else so don't blame it on what you aren't sure about. I had measles too. I don't have brain damage although the people following me would easily use this as lulz. Now I am forever immune to the illness. This is in contrast to the often dangerous side effects from the vaccination itself. I'm sorry but there needs to be more investigation as to the safety and efficacy of the vaccine schedule. There is so much emotion in this debate that I don't know if any discussion will be productive. You don't, yet, understand the vagaries of my sense of humor. I was being facetious about blaming my current maladies on having had the measles. Personally, I welcome debate on the vaccine issue. (Also, I think that I see the issue, to some extent, both from the concerned parents' as well as the concerned medical professionals' perspective, while not being emotionally caught up in it.) I doubt that your reputation will be beneficial to the anti-vaccine stance, but your perseverance on an issue will certainly give it expression. Sorry I didn't get your humor. You're right, I don't know you so I took what you said seriously. Here are some basic questions: Are all vaccines beneficial for all children during when there are no pandemics? Could these slew of shots be more injurious to some children than the risk of disease? Will old diseases come back if everybody isn't vaccinated? (The herd concept) Have there been any studies comparing the vaccinated with the unvaccinated? Can vaccines cause immediate and long term side effects (in some children) we might not know about? Do parents have the right to choose what they believe is best for their children in a free society?
So, I guess you're not "looking into" the study on autism that you say someone blew the whistle on, huh? Did you look at the link provided? Do you have a counter argument, or will you admit you are wrong on at least that one point? (top of pg 5 link says "Here ya go folks")I notice you are always making assumptions. I don't have time to read the link until later. Then I will get back to you. I based my statement on the fact that you were commenting on new line of questions. So it's not so much you don't have time as that you are choosing to spend time on other things. And it was a question anyway, not a statement, leaving myself open to your response.
Here are some basic questions: Are all vaccines beneficial for all children during when there are no pandemics? Could these slew of shots be more injurious to some children than the risk of disease? Will old diseases come back if everybody isn't vaccinated? (The herd concept) Have there been any studies comparing the vaccinated with the unvaccinated? Can vaccines cause immediate and long term side effects (in some children) we might not know about? Do parents have the right to choose what they believe is best for their children in a free society?Those are great questions. You should do your own research and get answers to them. Some of them are answered right in this thread.
Here are some basic questions: Are all vaccines beneficial for all children during when there are no pandemics? Could these slew of shots be more injurious to some children than the risk of disease? Will old diseases come back if everybody isn't vaccinated? (The herd concept) Have there been any studies comparing the vaccinated with the unvaccinated? Can vaccines cause immediate and long term side effects (in some children) we might not know about? Do parents have the right to choose what they believe is best for their children in a free society?Those are great questions. You should do your own research and get answers to them. Some of them are answered right in this thread. What do you think I'm doing Lausten? I am doing my own research and I am finding that the vaccine industry is coming up short answering many legitimate concerns by parents.
What do you think I'm doing Lausten? I am doing my own research and I am finding that the vaccine industry is coming up short answering many legitimate concerns by parents.What do you think I'm doing? I'm doing exactly what you are doing. I'm saying I have different answers than you, but I'm not providing you with data. I'm just saying it exists somewhere else. I'm doing that because I've determined that no matter what I say, you won't ever agree with me, just like you said I would do in your opening post. It's like we are in some Lewis Carrol alternate world and can't figure out who is Alice and who is the Mad Hatter.
What do you think I'm doing Lausten? I am doing my own research and I am finding that the vaccine industry is coming up short answering many legitimate concerns by parents.What do you think I'm doing? I'm doing exactly what you are doing. I'm saying I have different answers than you, but I'm not providing you with data. I'm just saying it exists somewhere else. I'm doing that because I've determined that no matter what I say, you won't ever agree with me, just like you said I would do in your opening post. It's like we are in some Lewis Carrol alternate world and can't figure out who is Alice and who is the Mad Hatter. If you can give me data that proves vaccines are not a risk to some children, I will agree with you, but why should my agreeing with you be a requirement? I am providing you with data. Didn't I give you a study that indicates there might be a synergistic toxicity when too many vaccines are combined? Even if I don't have all the data in my possession, this does not mean that vaccines are safe for all children by any means. Before I would inject my children with a drug (and vaccines are drugs) I would want to make an informed choice by educating myself, not accepting at face value what my doctor says. Maybe you will agree with me when all is said and done. Who knows? All I know is that this is an emotional issue and people who believe in vaccines have a difficult time seeing that they may not be all that they're cracked up to be.
If you can give me data that proves vaccines are not a risk to some children, I will agree with you, but why should my agreeing with you be a requirement? I am providing you with data. Didn't I give you a study that indicates there might be a synergistic toxicity when too many vaccines are combined? Even if I don't have all the data in my possession, this does not mean that vaccines are safe for all children by any means. Before I would inject my children with a drug (and vaccines are drugs) I would want to make an informed choice by educating myself, not accepting at face value what my doctor says. Maybe you will agree with me when all is said and done. Who knows? All I know is that this is an emotional issue and people who believe in vaccines have a difficult time seeing that they may not be all that they're cracked up to be.Yes, your study was horrible. I already said that. I also said there is a 1 in a million chance that a child will have an adverse to a vaccine. That's the literal odds. I don't know what the odds of having long term debilitating problems or death are, but they would have to be more than 1 in a million. The odds of adverse affects or death from any of the diseases that have vaccines, even in a vaccinated population, are much higher. This is easily verifiable by comparing to un-vaccinated populations and in pockets of the US where vaccinations rates drop below 95%. Really, if you can't refute those basic facts, the rest doesn't seem to matter. Vaccines are exactly what they are cracked up to be. If a parent thinks getting a vaccine has no risk and makes their kid immune, then they are uninformed. But there is a huge spectrum of understanding between that and anything you have said here.
If you can give me data that proves vaccines are not a risk to some children, I will agree with you, but why should my agreeing with you be a requirement? I am providing you with data. Didn't I give you a study that indicates there might be a synergistic toxicity when too many vaccines are combined? Even if I don't have all the data in my possession, this does not mean that vaccines are safe for all children by any means. Before I would inject my children with a drug (and vaccines are drugs) I would want to make an informed choice by educating myself, not accepting at face value what my doctor says. Maybe you will agree with me when all is said and done. Who knows? All I know is that this is an emotional issue and people who believe in vaccines have a difficult time seeing that they may not be all that they're cracked up to be.
Yes, your study was horrible. I already said that. I also said there is a 1 in a million chance that a child will have an adverse to a vaccine.Prove to me that there is 1 in a million chance that a child will have an adverse reaction to a vaccine.
That's the literal odds.Oh really? How do you know that?
I don't know what the odds of having long term debilitating problems or death are, but they would have to be more than 1 in a million. The odds of adverse affects or death from any of the diseases that have vaccines, even in a vaccinated population, are much higher.Again, how do you know that? How do you know the old diseases that were on their way out before mass vaccinations were put into effect would come back with a vengeance?
This is easily verifiable by comparing to un-vaccinated populations and in pockets of the US where vaccinations rates drop below 95%.There have been no studies comparing the vaccinated with the unvaccinated, so how do you know old diseases will come back, let alone have adverse affects or death?
Really, if you can't refute those basic facts, the rest doesn't seem to matter. Vaccines are exactly what they are cracked up to be. If a parent thinks getting a vaccine has no risk and makes their kid immune, then they are uninformed. But there is a huge spectrum of understanding between that and anything you have said here.I don't think so. I think there is more than a one in a million chance that a baby will get an adverse reaction. Look at all of the reports coming in to the vaccine injury hotline? And please don't tell me that these are only anecdotal so there's no proof of vaccine damage. It is the vaccine promoters and those who make money off of vaccines who have the burden of proof, and in my mind they have not even come close to meeting it, especially with the ever growing vaccine schedule.
Prove to me that there is 1 in a million chance that a child will have an adverse reaction to a vaccine.Since you could easily google that yourself, I have to ask what it is you are asking for? I could provide a number of links, but what would you trust? Not the CDC I assume. Do you need names and addresses of 999,999 healthy children? What counts as proof for you?
Prove to me that there is 1 in a million chance that a child will have an adverse reaction to a vaccine.Since you could easily google that yourself, I have to ask what it is you are asking for? I could provide a number of links, but what would you trust? Not the CDC I assume. Do you need names and addresses of 999,999 healthy children? What counts as proof for you? You're right, it's who you trust. I personally would rather err on the side of not vaccinating until proof is established that there are no risks, and you know they can't establish that. Look at the inserts. At this time all of the empirical studies do not conclude that there is no risk associated with vaccines. There are a lot of chronically ill children in our society, much more than in the past. There could be other contributory factors that are causing this rise, but it doesn't exclude vaccinations. And I'm not sure what you call "healthy". The fact that children don't have the disease that they were vaccinated against?