Pageant of Evolution - Cambrian what?

I’ve been working on this sucker a lot, first a couple weeks ago, then got I to play Napa and touch real living humanity and eternity in the wonder of an 8 week old. Been able to stare at a sandstone wall laid down when we were Pangea, and I actually sensed deep-time for a precious moment. I have one more day before deadline and I need to lay this down for a while. Maybe even go to bed early, what a concept.

So 997 words, if evolution interests you, give it a try. If it don’t grab your attention early it’s probably not worth your time. Then again, who knows?

 

In last month’s celebration of Earth’s Pageant of Evolution I touched on the interplay of geochemistry, tectonics and archaic life. The intimate love-making of geology and biology - to put it poetically, rather than scientifically.

Getting back to the science, scientists have learned about the why and how of various ocean bottom geologic structures that provide the catalysts between geochemistry and biochemistry, by helping bind basic molecules into complex organic building blocks of life.

This month to convey the immensity of “Deep Time” I’m scaling down Earth’s 4.6 billion years to 24 hours. A billion years take 5 hours plus change, 3.2 million years tick by every minute. Our human story fits into Earth’s past 4-5 seconds. Imagine that.

Earth was an infant (3-4 minutes) when Theia slammed into her creating our Moon/Earth system. By 3AM baby continents were plowing through the oceans and doing their mountain building; erosion; grinding; pulverizing; redistribution; redigesting; creation drama.

Suggestively the earliest simple celled organisms show up shortly after that. Toughing it out in a very hostile world of raw unfiltered Sun’s rays and energetic-particle bombardment along with Earth’s toxic atmosphere and oceans.

To the rescue - plate tectonics started a cascade of processes - that by around 5 AM induced Earth’s iron core to turn into a dynamo that built a magnetic force field around Earth, thus deflecting those deadly particles. This allowed the slow seepage of geochemically produced oxygen to interact with the sun’s rays, this in turn allowed ozone to form and accumulate, absorbing ever more of those harmful rays.

As Earth’s shielding developed, life figured out how to utilize the tamed sunlight to split water’s H2O bond, using the hydrogen atoms to build sugars while discarding the oxygen. Thus photosynthesis, a potent source of oxygen was born and Earth’s ozone shielding got reinforcing.

Still, the global ocean and atmosphere was a brew of toxins. Though geology and biology was busy cleaning that up, albeit at a glacial pace.

Geology acts very slowly. How slow is slow, you ask? Consider taking a trip around the world moving as fast as your fingernails grow. Worse, upon your arrival you collide and are sent reeling right back across the globe, again and again.

One result was that shallow seas and massive tidal pools existed for immense periods of time, coming and going. While continents were creeping along, archaic microorganisms within those oceans were reproducing every day, when not in hours and minutes.

By afternoon, some simple cells expanded, sequestering their command and control within a reinforced fortress, the nucleus, creating new structures and pathways within the much larger fortified cell membranes.

These cells even took on outside microbes to help with the increasing work load and differentiating duties. Thus Earth’s first Eukaryotes appeared.

In learning about this scientists made a fundamental realization: cell biology and organisms, their development and evolution, cannot be considered without also understanding the environment within which they exist, and to which they must constantly adjust in order to thrive.

So it was, by 3 PM eukaryotes were firmly established, pushing Life’s potential as far as the environment allowed. Then back to biding time, waiting for what came next. Earth continued going through its great geochemical and geophysical convulsions, including continent grinding global ice ages.

By 7 PM ocean chemistry was moderating while free oxygen levels achieved concentrations that allowed those complex eukaryotes to evolve into coordinated communities and then into Earth’s first animals in short order.

But, it was a rough few hours. When communities of critters had a chance to develop and reproduce enough to make a difference, they made a difference alright. They were too bountiful and sucked free oxygen right back out of their environments. Suffocating themselves into extinction, until stromatolites could pump out enough oxygen for another go. One day at a time.

Apparently, living in moderation never was part of Earth’s natural order. Of course, the consequences of this tendency towards excess has always been collapse.

Then around 9 PM and after some 17 hours worth of stage prep; developing various genetic widgets and gadgets, like a Lego set; a few rehearsals; then finally timing lined up and Life took off like unchaperoned teenagers at a springtime full moon dance.

First the Ediacaran “Explosion” lasting around 12 minutes before an extinction event handed Life’s baton over to about 7 minutes worth of the Cambrian “Explosion”. During this third of an hour most to Life’s fundamental body plans appeared, filling every available niche.

The event was even a dilemma for Charles Darwin, since this sudden fossil proliferation was already recognized way back then. Today we understand it as an “eye of the beholder” problem. Looking through the wrong end of the telescope.

160 years of collecting and processing evidence resolves a time span of 60 to 90 millions years worth of biological adventurism. Geologically, it’s shockingly short. Biologically not so much.

Why was the Cambrian radiation so exuberant? Short answer, Earth was ripe and Life was ready. There were no precedents. No competition. No rules. No constraints. Endless amounts of microbial mats on sea floors. Generations ticking away in geologic milliseconds.

As primal animals consumed all those microbial mats and things got grime, competition was born. Then hunting, then ecology evolved and life settled down for the long haul. Well, except for periodic massive catastrophic tectonic upheavals, or the occasional asteroid impact knocking the pins out from under Earth’s biosphere.

When Life has to scramble with new geophysical realities it returns to its ancient genetic toolkit. As the dust settles and critters figured out how to adapt, there were always sudden bursts of amazingly fast (geologically speaking) evolutionary radiation.

Life would then repurpose its genetic heritage into body plans that adapted, survived and thrived in their brave new world. Some say the last couple hours in Earth’s story has only been variations on a theme. But, those must wait for another day.

Actually 990 words now. Talking about Canyon DeChelly - more on that some other time. Anyone want to see pics ?

Boring.

Well, I came by to check. Alrighty then, it’s a wrap.

In last month’s celebration of Earth’s Pageant of Evolution I touched on the interplay of tectonics, geochemistry and archaic life. The intimate love-making of Earth’s geology and biology - to put it poetically rather than scientifically.

Getting back to the science, scientists have learned about the why and how of various ocean bottom structures that provide the catalyst between geochemistry and biochemistry, by helping bind basic molecules into complex organic building blocks of life.

This month to convey the immensity of Deep Time I’m scaling down Earth’s 4.6 billion years to 24 hours. A billion years take 5 hours plus change, 3.2 million years tick by every minute. Our human story fits into Earth’s past 4-5 seconds. Imagine that.

Earth was an infant (3-4 minutes) when Theia slammed into her creating our Moon/Earth system. By 3 AM baby continents were plowing through the oceans and doing their mountain building; erosion; grinding; pulverizing; redistribution; redigesting; creation drama.

Suggestively the earliest simple celled organisms show up shortly after that. Toughing it out in a very hostile world of raw unfiltered Sun’s rays and energetic-particle bombardment along with toxic atmosphere and oceans.

To the rescue - plate tectonics started a cascade of processes - that by around 5 AM induced Earth’s iron core to turn into a dynamo that built a magnetic force field around Earth, thus deflecting those deadly particles. This allowed the slow seepage of geochemically produced oxygen to interact with the sun’s rays, this in turn allowed ozone to form and accumulate, absorbing ever more of those harmful rays.

As Earth’s shielding developed, life figured out how to utilize the tamed sunlight to split water’s H2O bond, using the hydrogen atoms to build sugars while discarding the oxygen. Thus photosynthesis, a potent source of oxygen, was born and Earth’s ozone shielding got reinforced.

Still, the global ocean and atmosphere was a brew of toxins. Though geology and biology was busy cleaning that up, albeit at a glacial pace.

Geology acts very slowly. How slow is slow, you ask? Consider taking a trip around the world moving as fast as your fingernails grow. Worse, upon your arrival you collide and are sent reeling right back across the planet, again and again.

One result was that shallow seas and massive tidal pools existed for immense periods of time, coming and going. While continents were creeping along archaic microorganisms within those oceans were reproducing every day, in hours and minutes.

By afternoon, some simple cells expanded, sequestering their command and control within a reinforced citadel (the nucleus), while created new components, structures and pathways within the much larger fortified cell membrane. These cells even recruited outside microbes to help with the increasing work load and differentiating duties. Thus Earth’s first Eukaryotes appeared.

In learning about this scientists made a fundamental realization: cell biology and organisms, their development and evolution, cannot be considered without also understanding the environment within which they exist, and to which they must constantly adjust in order to thrive.

So it was, by 3 PM eukaryotes were firmly established, pushing Life’s potential as far as the environment allowed. Then back to biding time, waiting for what came next as Earth continued going through its great geochemical and geophysical convulsions, including continent grinding global ice ages.

 

By 7 PM ocean chemistry was moderating while free oxygen levels achieved concentrations that allowed those complex eukaryotes to evolve into coordinated communities and then into Earth’s first critters.

But, it was a rough time. When communities of critters had a chance to develop and reproduce enough to make a difference, they made a difference alright. They were too bountiful and sucked free oxygen right back out of their environments. Suffocating themselves into extinction, until stromatolites could pump out enough oxygen for another go. One day at a time.

Apparently, living in moderation never was part of Earth’s natural order. Of course, the consequences of this tendency towards excess has always been collapse.

So, around 9 PM and after some 17 hours worth of stage prep; developing various genetic widgets and gadgets like a Lego set; a few rehearsals; now the timing was right - Life took off like unchaperoned teenagers at a springtime full moon dance.

The Ediacaran “Explosion” lasting around 12 minutes before an extinction event handed Life’s baton over to about 7 minutes worth of the Cambrian “Explosion.” During this third of an hour most of Life’s basic animal body plans (Phylum) appeared, filling every available niche.

The apparent suddenness was even a dilemma for Charles Darwin, since this sudden fossil proliferation was already recognized back then. Today we understand it as an “eye of the beholder” problem. Looking through the wrong end of the telescope.

160 years of collecting and processing evidence has resolved a time span of 70 to 90 million years worth of biological adventurism. Geologically, it’s shockingly short. Biologically, not so much.

Why was the Cambrian radiation so exuberant? Short answer, Earth was ripe and Life was ready. There were no precedents. No competition. No rules. No constraints. Endless microbial mats on sea floors. Generations ticking away in geologic milliseconds.

As primal animals consumed all those microbial mats things started getting grime, competition was born along with it’s hunting and defense strategies. Next thing we see is an arms race and ecology developing as life settles in for the long haul.

Except for periodic massive catastrophic tectonic upheavals, or the occasional asteroid impact, knocking the pins out from under Earth’s biosphere.

When radical geophysical catastrophes has Life scrambling again, it returns to its ancient genetic toolkit. As the dust settles and survivors figure out what’s what, there were always moments of sudden “explosive” (geologically speaking) animal radiation events.

Life would repurpose its genetic heritage, body plans adapted, animals radiated, and survivors learned to thrive in their brave new world. Some say since the Cambrian, Earth’s story has simply been variations on those themes as life dances to climate. But, all that must wait for another FCFP issue.

Did I miss the chance for pictures? Will this be published online?

But, all that must wait for another FCFP issue. What is the FCFP issues?

Eventually I’ll get those pictures together Lausten.

Four Corners Free Press an area monthly.

So many pathetic lies in that “documentary” (yes I’m familiar with the piece of excrement) - Have ever listened to scientists discussing their work. It’s totally different experience - this documentary is one dedicated focus sales pitch, with every sentence bent to that political message. Listen to scientists and they are busy explaining their work, what they have found, what they have not found, mistakes, or weakness, other’s scientists competing research and theories. It’s serious stuff because objective learning from the facts is the goal.

All you’ve shown me is a bunch of claptrap that you could not defend in any constructive honest debate. Yes you can consider that a dare.

Back to that garbage 24 clock they used - it wasn’t 2 minutes, more like 20 minutes, of radical divergence.

To say

28:00 - "hour clock six hours nothing but these simple single-celled organisms appear at the same sort that we saw in the beginning 12 hours same thing 18 hours same thing 3/4 of the day has passed and all we have are these simple single-celled organisms then at about the 21st hour in the space of about two minutes boom most of the major animal forms appear ..."
Is a gross misrepresentation of the facts, but if you refuse to spend the time learning about it, you'll never know any better. Self-certain faith shackled manipulation of real facts is disgusting.

If you start from a position that it’s impossible and then you readjust all the facts to fit in your self-certain conviction, then ignore all the facts that tell a much richer more complete story - you’ll remain deluded as evaa.

 

The great joke is that in that 24 hour clock, humanity showed up during the last 4-5 seconds, yet you think God, Intelligent Design, is all about us humans.

I’ve got a simple mind and as I learn more and more about the complexities of what’s being discovered, I’ll hand it to you the temptation to see an Intelligent Something behind it is humongous, since it’s simply too much for our mind to wrap it’s head around.

So okay, what if we grant you an Intelligent Designer - How on Earth can you think ID can possibly fit into the Bible or Jesus?

And of course what about the Bible’s own warning that God is beyond human understanding?

Lets try that again.

...

So, around 9 PM and after some 17 hours worth of stage prep; developing various genetic widgets and gadgets like a Lego set; a few rehearsals; now the timing was right - Life took off like unchaperoned teenagers at a springtime full moon dance.

The Ediacaran “Explosion” lasting around 12 minutes before an extinction event handed Life’s baton over to about 7 minutes worth of the Cambrian “Explosion.” During this third of an hour most of Life’s basic animal body plans (Phylum) appeared, filling every available niche.

The apparent suddenness was even a dilemma for Charles Darwin, since this sudden fossil proliferation was already recognized back then. Today we understand it as an “eye of the beholder” problem. Looking through the wrong end of the telescope.

160 years of collecting and processing evidence has resolved a time span of 70 to 90 million years worth of biological adventurism. Geologically, it’s shockingly short. Biologically, not so much.

Why was the Cambrian radiation so exuberant? Short answer, Earth was ripe and Life was ready. There were no precedents. No competition. No rules. No constraints. Endless microbial mats on sea floors. Generations ticking away in geologic milliseconds.

As increasingly complex and efficient primal animals consumed all those microbial mats things started getting grime, competition was born along with it’s hunting and defense strategies. Next thing we see is an arms race and ecology developing as life settles in for the long haul.

Except for periodic massive catastrophic tectonic upheavals, or the occasional asteroid impact, knocking the pins out from under Earth’s biosphere.

When radical geophysical catastrophes has Life scrambling again, it returns to its ancient genetic toolkit. As the dust settles and survivors figure out what’s what, there were always moments of sudden “explosive” (geologically speaking) animal radiation events.

Life would repurpose its genetic heritage, body plans adapted, animals radiated, and survivors learned to thrive in their brave new world. Some say since the Cambrian, Earth’s story has simply been variations on those themes as life dances to climate. But, all that must wait for another FCFP issue.

... Which brings me back to Gould’s magisterium and his missing key.

The missing key is appreciating the fundamental “Magisteria of Physical Reality,” - and recognizing that both science and religion are products of the “Magisteria of Our Human Mindscape.”

Science seeks to objectively learn about our physical world, but we should still recognize all our understanding is embedded within and constrained by our brain’s mindscape.

Religion is all about the human mindscape itself, with its wonderful struggles, fears, spiritual undercurrents, needs and stories we create to give our live’s meaning and make it worth living, or at least bearable.

What’s the point? I think it’s about better appreciating our ‘frame of reference’ - and especially recognizing that we aren’t the center of creation.

This is important today because some have convinced themselves that they actually have a personal Almighty God in their back pockets, when in fact our Gods are as transient as governments and the human species itself.

Religions, heaven, hell, science, political beliefs, even God, they are all products of the human mindscape, generations of imaginings built upon previous generations of imaginings, all the way down.

Destined to be swept away by the hands of time, while Earth and life will continue its dance.

 

http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2019/04/citizenschallenge-why-you-earth-centrist.html

Although better than that how about listening to a real scientist discussing how the search for origins is going.

Jack Szostak: Origin of life on earth and design of alternatives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAZTiWZU6Cc

MoleCluesTV, Published on Jun 4, 2017 (40:38 min.)

Nobel Prize winner Dr Jack Szostak’s lecture at the Molecular Frontiers Symposium at the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, Sweden, May 2017. The topic of the symposium was “Tailored Biology”.

For more information, visit www.molecularfrontiers.org


Seems to me all the ID side had is playing with statistics and crying it’s impossible, it’s impossible! Add to that a commitment to magical God and Creation thinking along with a rejection of learning from science - though they have taken the time to invent a snake-oil faux science, one that is unidirectional. Fundamentally dishonest, period.

Scientists don’t claim to know all the answers, they are okay with mysteries and the adventure of trying to crack the riddle, what ever it may be at the moment. That’s totally different from the faith based approach which is always selling a product.

Funny calling what I say an emotional outburst - emotional appeal is all the IDer have to begin with you joker.

Jonathan Wells is a member of the Discovery Institute

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jonathan_Wells

and a follower of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon’s Unification Church,

and a prominent advocate of intelligent design,

as well as the author of Icons of Evolution and Regnery Publishing’s Politically Incorrect Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design.[note 1]

Along with Michael Behe, he is one of the few in the movement with demonstrably legitimate credentials (he has a Ph.D. in biological science).

Wells completed the Ph.D. for the sole purpose of “debunking” evolution.[1]

Despite his credentials, he has been caught bullshitting or outright lying on many occasions, and his books are generally considered garbage by mainstream science. Wells has also lent his support to the cause of AIDS denialism.[2]

He also claims to expose the “lie about overwhelming amounts of evidence for evolution”.[3]

“[Reverend Moon, creepily referred to here as “Father]'s” words, my studies, and my prayers convinced me that I should devote my life to destroying Darwinism, just as many of my fellow Unificationists had already devoted their lives to destroying Marxism.” Darwinism: Why I Went for a Second Ph.D., Jonathan Wells
“AIDS denialism gathers strange bedfellows”, Vancouver Sun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3mqw4oxb2w


So you can have a PhD and still be a bat shit crazy manipulator and liar for his God of the Profits - when he discusses the science. Wells’ narrative of the 24 hour clock is contrived nonsense that underscores his dishonest, but then you would have to take the time to actually learn about evolution to appreciate that.

Even in that video, he misrepresent his “Evolution’s Icons” doesn’t share the modern understanding of those icons - it’s again one-sided salesmanship that’s all. Cherry picking his facts to fit his argument.

Science is about gathering facts and learning from them. Wells practices Science By Rhetoric, salesmanship and deception. Got nothing to do with better understanding the world we exist within.

You’re playing games, and I don’t have the time - what part of his 24 clock being represented falsely don’t you get?

I’ve shown he’s a biased as they get - my god the man is a MOONIE - he worships a mesmerist.

It’s not on me to prove him wrong - he doesn’t possess any legitimacy - though in due time you can be assured he is now on my list -

https://confrontingsciencecontrarians.blogspot.com/2019/07/diary-july-31-2019.html

Though this month is dedicated to reality - next month it’ll be time to get back to the alternate reality of the Wells’ and Holmes’* and Steele’s.

 

You show me where real evidence is on Well’s side.

He’s opining on what other’s have opined. That doesn’t have a thing to do with science.

 

Holmes, how about you simply trying to define this ID as you understand it - why don’t you try to teach what you know?

or is cut and paste the best you got

 

*not you.

Hmmmm, unless you’re actually 1000Frolly.

 

Now wouldn’t that be a kick in the ass.

That’s funny you who ignore everything I’ve presented regarding the Cambrian in your other thread - stuff that comes from serious scientists doing a serious job of explaining the state of understanding.

I shared an essay I wrote, why not challenge what I wrote - quote it - tear it apart with facts and your incisive intellect - why your compulsion to distract away from doing something constructive like that?


Now instead of addressing any of that you pull this joker out of your hat. I know it’s pretty near all you have so I shouldn’t be shocked.

 

This person you’ve elevated to near perfect authority, is a follower of Rev. Sun Myung Moon. He’s done no real studies, no serious scientific publications objections to what serious scientists are doing and discovering. Only a couple cheap books, and public spectacles that totally side track the state of understanding - but Wells gets away with it because that’s all his audience wants to hear.

Tell me why your ongoing emotional ranting should be given precedence over a person who’s earned a PhD in molecular biology?
Tell me why a degree in anything automatically makes you an expert worthy of consideration? This is not a formal debate Sherlock. If it was, Wells would be creamed. If you want specifics, try here http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wells/. He was also a witness at the Kansas Evolution Hearings. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/kansas/kangaroo2.html. The scientific community refused to participate in that kangaroo court because they felt it would appear they were legitimizing the views of people like Wells hold.

People refusing to “quote even one sentence” from a particular YouTube are not evidence against his lies and misrepresentations. If that’s the standard, then all you have to do is keep creating videos. If any one of them is not quoted and time stamped, that’s evidence for you that the entire science of evolution is bankrupt. You’ve created a game with rules that only you can win.

Holmes: Now back to the issue at hand – frankly I consider unacceptable to label someone a liar, falsifier and so on but refuse to state exactly what evidence one has for that accusation.
Then why do Creationists do it about the Science ALL THE TIME!

Oh, and I was quite clear - Wells rendition of the 24 clock is a total fiction because of all the stuff it ignores.

Tell me why a degree in anything automatically makes you an expert worthy of consideration? This is not a formal debate Sherlock. If it was, Wells would be creamed. If you want specifics, try here http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wells/. He was also a witness at the Kansas Evolution Hearings. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/kansas/kangaroo2.html. The scientific community refused to participate in that kangaroo court because they felt it would appear they were legitimizing the views of people like Wells hold.

People refusing to “quote even one sentence” from a particular YouTube are not evidence against his lies and misrepresentations. If that’s the standard, then all you have to do is keep creating videos. If any one of them is not quoted and time stamped, that’s evidence for you that the entire science of evolution is bankrupt. You’ve created a game with rules that only you can win.


I notice you deftly ignored what Lausten shared. Don’t worry Holmes, or is it 1000frolly, I’ll get to Wells in due time, just not on your time schedule, but I’ll be sure to let you know. ;- )

For the record

 

In 2006, Wells published a new book called The Politically Incorrect Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design. The Panda's Thumb has a detailed reviews of this factually incorrect book:

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design ReviewIntroduction
Why Should Words Have Meanings? (Chapter 1)
Simply Incorrect Embryology (Chapter 3)
The Secret is Lies (Chapter 9)
“Traditional Christianity,” Ersatz Revolutionaries, and the Culture War (Chapter 15)
Whose Head is Ugly? Jonathan Wells and Lysenkoism (Chapter 16)
PIG Ignorant About Ohio

 

Creationist Jonathan Wells, an intelligent-design advocate affiliated with the Discovery Institute, has written a book entitled Icons of Evolution, which states that some of the best-known evidences for evolution – such as the peppered moths, the Miller-Urey abiogenesis experiment, and the finches of the Galápagos islands – are false, fraudulent or misrepresented in college-level textbooks. Articles found here refute Wells’ book and demonstrate that the traditional, mainstream-science-supporting interpretations of these “icons” are correct.

 

Icon of Obfuscation Nick Matzke’s long and comprehensive article lists Wells’ “icons” and refutes his claims one by one, showing how in each case it is Wells who has promoted deceptive interpretations of these famous evidences for evolution.

Jonathan Wells and Darwin’s FinchesThis article examines one of Wells’ “icons” – the finch species of the Galápagos islands – in greater detail, showing how Wells’ claims about them do not stand up to scrutiny.

Wells and Haeckel’s EmbryosA biologist reviews the embryology “icon” in detail and shows that contrary to Wells that embryos are evidence for evolution.

Icons of Human EvolutionA review of the “From Ape to Human: The Ultimate Icon” chapter of Icons. It is part of the Fossil Hominids section of this Archive.

Kansas Evolution Hearings: Testimony of Jonathan Wells A transcript of the testimony given by Wells in the so-called “science hearings” of May, 2005.

Holmes looks like plenty has already been written to answer all your questions - so why try to bust my nuts on that nonsense, after all I did answer your question with one example - Why not show some gumption and originality and pick-on what I write. Go on hit me with your best shot - Oh and you labeling it incoherent ranting certainly can’t be your best shot. That’s the sort of thing a intellectually empty punk yells over his shoulder as he’s running away. Meaning its a reflection on you, not the essay.

Oh and just a little aside https://confrontingsciencecontrarians.blogspot.com/2019/07/diary-july-31-2019.html

 

That looks like a lot of cool info Lausten. They’ve done all the hard work for me.

I’ve glanced at Panda’sThumb on occasion, but never spent much time there, didn’t need to. Times they are a changing. Wasn’t aware of how much was there.

You are about the most valuable member here, you share so many good links. Plus your calming approach is also appreciated, I feel better already rereading your paragraphs. ;- ) oooooommmmmm

Citizenschallenge, I really appreciate the research, thought, time and care you put into all your work here. I took four days off to go camping and see you’ve been hard at work (probably ‘play’ to you) the whole time.

Sherlock Holmes, I am glad you returned. Folks like Citizen’ have a lot of good stuff to say, and if it is processed with honesty and thoughtfulness, we all might grow in our knowledge.