If you think there is such a thing as treason to begin with, what would it be? I'm still waiting for you to tell me what civil liberties you have lost.Although impolite about referencing it, he gave the link to the topic he posted re: civil liberties under attack in our society at large. http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/17148/ AFAIK, I, personally, have not lost any civil liberties and Fuzzy may not have either. Still if some members of society are having their civil liberties attacked, then it should be a matter of concern for all of us, IMO. Re what constitutes treason, isn't it something like: providing aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war and/or advocating the violent overthrow of the government? (I would look it up, but I'm in the middle of this post.) What about when government agencies (e.g., the NSA and CIA) abuse their power and obfuscate it so that Congressional or other oversight becomes ineffectual. Could that be considered treasonous? Yes I followed the link. It's to his own writings. You're right about the word treason though. Espionage is the right word. My mistake. "Civil Liberties under attack at large in our society" is not really a topic I want to get into. Civil Liberties are always under attack. I wanted to know about civil liberties that have been taken away in reference to anything that Snowden may have revealed. I'm trying to stay on topic here.
Although impolite about referencing it, he gave the link to the topic he posted re: civil liberties under attack in our society at large. http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/17148/ AFAIK, I, personally, have not lost any civil liberties and Fuzzy may not have either. Still if some members of society are having their civil liberties attacked, then it should be a matter of concern for all of us, IMO. Re what constitutes treason, isn't it something like: providing aid and comfort to the enemy in time of war and/or advocating the violent overthrow of the government? (I would look it up, but I'm in the middle of this post.) What about when government agencies (e.g., the NSA and CIA) abuse their power and obfuscate it so that Congressional or other oversight becomes ineffectual. Could that be considered treasonous?Military officers pledge to defend the Constitution, not the state. If the state is acting in a way that attacks the rights of citizens encoded in the Constitution then they are in fact domestic enemies. And it's people like Edward Snowden who are standing up for the true intent of the Constitution which is the preservation of freedom and independence in America. Not the implementation of state control and the suppression of citizens rights. And with all pervasive intrusions of privacy and the constant use of force by the state against citizens is there really any question that the sate is acting unconstitutionally. Unfortunately there are Supremes like Scalia and Thomas who don't even try and appear impartial and concerned with upholding the Constitution.
Why don’t you worry about your own country Fuzzy? You’re not even American.
Military officers pledge to defend the Constitution, not the state. If the state is acting in a way that attacks the rights of citizens encoded in the Constitution then they are in fact domestic enemies.Seriously TimB, you want to entertain this?
If you think there is such a thing as treason to begin with, what would it be? I'm still waiting for you to tell me what civil liberties you have lost.It's amazing how you've completely forgotten that one of the main factors of this issue is the all pervasive intrusion of privacy by state security. It's that right to privacy and protection from unlawful search and seizure that have affected the Civil Liberites of us all. Earlier Lois posted a story about how the state is denying the freedom of people through the use of very heavy handed tactics.
Secrets, lies and Snowden’s email: why I was forced to shut down Lavabit For the first time, the founder of an encrypted email startup that was supposed to insure privacy for all reveals how the FBI and the US legal system made sure we don’t have the right to much privacy in the first placeI think you'd have to totally oblivious to history to not understand that if you wait until they get to you you'll somehow be fine. http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.I also seriously question the morality of anyone that claims we need to wait until our own direct interests are affected before we act.
Why don't you worry about your own country Fuzzy? You're not even American.Why don't you mind your own business, I have dual citizenship and although I haven't lived there in a long time it's still my country too.
Ok TimB? I mean let’s be honest here. This reminds of the 9/11 Jet Plane threads.
Fuzzy Logic-Military officers pledge to defend the Constitution, not the state. If the state is acting in a way that attacks the rights of citizens encoded in the Constitution then they are in fact domestic enemies.
And what’s going on in America isn’t staying confined there.
The NSA is working closely with CSEC to do the same thing up here.
A top secret document retrieved by U.S. whistleblower Edward Snowden and obtained by CBC News shows that Canada's electronic spy agency used information from the free internet service at a major Canadian airport to track the wireless devices of thousands of ordinary airline passengers for days after they left the terminal. After reviewing the document, one of Canada's foremost authorities on cyber-security says the clandestine operation by the Communications Security Establishment Canada (CSEC) was almost certainly illegal.http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/dont-spy-on-me-csec/article17781948/
Fuzzy Logic-It’s that right to privacy and protection from unlawful search and seizure that have affected the Civil Liberites of us all. Earlier Lois posted a story about how the state is denying the freedom of people through the use of very heavy handed tactics.When do you think these heavy handed tactics started? When did they really kick in?
And? What do officers say when they pledge to defend the constitution, "Against enemies both foreign and domestic". The Constitution isn't there so someone can set up an empire in America, it's there to protect the freedom and independence of its citizens, something you seem to have not the slightest clue about. So parties and organizations who are actively working to remove the rights of Americans and effectively defraud them of a future are acting against the core values and principles encoded in the Constitution. How does that not make them enemies of the Constitution. As I said military officers in the US don't pledge to protect the state, they pledge to protect its founding principles. But I'm wasting my time with you, it really is a game for you I see.Fuzzy Logic-Military officers pledge to defend the Constitution, not the state. If the state is acting in a way that attacks the rights of citizens encoded in the Constitution then they are in fact domestic enemies.
Like I said, worry about Canada. We’ve got enough wackaloons here.
These political matters don’t concern you. You’re ranting and raving practically.
But you should look into having all of the military arrested for not upholding their oath. That’s good.
Ok TimB? I mean let's be honest here. This reminds of the 9/11 Jet Plane threads.When someone says that it's usually a good indication that honesty is the last thing they're interested in.
Fuzzy Logic-But I’m wasting my time with you, it really is a game for you I see.No it's not a game for me. But it is obviously an obsession of yours. One of those obsessions we see from time to time around here.
Like I said, worry about Canada. We've got enough wackaloons here. These political matters don't concern you. You're ranting and raving practically. But you should look into having all of the military arrested for not upholding their oath. That's good.Bug off troll.
Ok TimB? I mean let's be honest here. This reminds of the 9/11 Jet Plane threads.When someone says that it's usually a good indication that honesty is the last thing they're interested in. Right.
Military officers pledge to defend the Constitution, not the state. If the state is acting in a way that attacks the rights of citizens encoded in the Constitution then they are in fact domestic enemies.Seriously TimB, you want to entertain this? It's a thought. But I think I see your point about it being something that someone like Ted Cruz (Canadian) or Rand Paul (who is, BTW, not Canadian) might spout, in supporting his own ultra-right agenda. But I don't think that Fuzzy has an ultra-right agenda. (And Fuzzy, I don't mean to insult you, if you are, partially, Canadian. I just, really, really, really don't like Ted Cruz.)
Like I said, worry about Canada. We've got enough wackaloons here. These political matters don't concern you. You're ranting and raving practically. But you should look into having all of the military arrested for not upholding their oath. That's good.Bug off troll. Who's a troll? You've been here for less than a year and you have 10,000 pages about Global warming and police states. It gets old. Especially when you keep regurgitating it back to the same 4-5 people.
Fuzzy logic-If you think the kind of power that is being given away in the name of security is going to be given back willingly then your critical thinking skills are pathetic.This is your first response to me on this thread after I posted a polite, rational response of my own opinion on the subject. Who's a troll? You're pathetic!
Okay, I’m bugging out for now. When I return, I expect (?) to see more thoughtful and insightful dialogue and less personal attacks. (But in parting I would like to say… Ted Cruz sucks.)