Xain you might want to try Apatheism - Wikipedia
@ibelieveinlogicApatheism (/ˌæpəˈθiːɪzəm/;[citation needed] a portmanteau of apathy and theism) is the attitude of apathy towards the existence or non-existence of God(s). It is more of an attitude rather than a belief, claim, or belief system.[1][2]
An apatheist is someone who is not interested in accepting or rejecting any claims that gods exist or do not exist. The existence of God(s) is not rejected, but may be designated irrelevant.[3]
Scientist and philosopher Ian von Hegner has argued that apatheism is an alternative to positions such as theism, atheism, and agnosticism, with implications that have been overlooked in modern philosophical discussions.[3] Philosopher Trevor Hedberg has called apatheism “uncharted territory in the philosophy of religion.”[1]
Thanks, that’s a new term for me, but it’s essence I’ve identified with for a long time now. Nice to see someone has worked on spelling it out.
Now lets talk about the difference between Physical Reality and our Human Mindscape (wherein all our gods reside) 
{You’re a newbie here - so you may not appreciate the smilie I’ve attached to it.}
Oh and welcome to the forum Logic. Have at it.
Oh and welcome to the forum Logic. Have at it.While you were off in the real world, our forum High Master Above All Who We Must Obey, changed the displayed name to the username, instead the other one that I don't know what it's called. So, for you and me, no big deal because those two things are almost exactly the same. But some people, completely different.
you may not appreciate the smilieBut I do appreciate the smilie, its like getting a hug, only on-line.
But some people, completely different.Amazing just how different some people can be, eh.
It’s hard for me to “pretend” things matter though.
I value living according to truth and what is right and thinking that there is no objective meaning to anything means that me making meaning is lying to myself. That I am clouding reality for my own benefit.
I clung to nihilism out of convenience rather than sincerity. I projected my failing onto others, but it was I who didn’t “Get it”. Never did. -- Xain/SnowcityThe truth is, you are a meaning making machine. That's what we all have to reconcile. We make meaning, if it is there or not. Knowing something about meaning doesn't change your feelings. You can't stop your feelings.
Well knowing something about meaning does change me though, because I know I am “wrong”. About it. That in reality meaning doesn’t exist objectively and for me to say something means something to me would be like I am lying. I still remember what the Broward Meditation people said about the picture world we build based on our experience of things around us and how this “image” we have of things clouds us to what they really are.
So it’s hard for me to reconcile that with making meaning, which seems like lying to me.
Everyone has had this problem since our consciousnesses evolved. Many of them solved it by making up myths. But do you think you are the first person in the history of the world who questioned the myths of his culture? Have you noticed all the old statues laying around in ruins? Sorry we didn’t protect you from knowledge. Sorry that we didn’t make some meaning for you so you would never have to think for yourself. If you think you can stop yourself from this desire to know what you really are, go ahead and try, then write a book about. Heck, I might even buy a copy.
We shape clay into a pot, but it is the emptiness inside that holds whatever we want. Lao Tzu
Xain,
You are beating yourself up over trying to justify living a life without meaning. Yet the simple fact that you care so much about this proves, absolutely, that things in your life have meaning. There is no way to avoid that conclusion, so accept it and move on to the next stage of growth. It would be the height of lunacy to refuse to grow intellectually or emotionally because you insist on proving that nothing has intellectual or emotional meaning [read this sentence again and let the absurdity of it sink in].
If there was no meaning you wouldn’t care about anything at all. Can you see that you are claiming there is no meaning while spending a good portion of your life obsessing over the meaning of life? It’s like choosing to use radio to spread a message denying the existence of radio waves, or holding a fundraiser to raise money for your group that is campaigning against the use of fundraisers to raise money. Stop and think about it.
You need stop denying that ‘meaning’ exists. Attributing meaning to stuff is part of being a Homo sapiens and is what makes you capable of living a fulfilling and meaningful life.
If you want to stop feeling emotions, good luck, but you’re going to suffer badly and needlessly because you will be trying to deny a fundamental aspect of being a human… which you are.
This is all very difficult to talk about in this format, but I hope at least a bit of what I’m saying makes sense. You don’t have to agree with my points, but hopefully you at least understand them the way I mean them!
If only he would spend as much time actually thinking about some of the good advice he gets here, (such as those paragraphs right up there), as he does superficially listening to professional talkers, he’d be way ahead of the game.
I’m pretty sure I already spent my dime on this thread, so have nothing to add. May peace be with you all.
We shape clay into a pot, but it is the emptiness inside that holds whatever we want. Lao TzuUnfortunately in my mind that means that the reality is the emptiness.
Unfortunately in my mind that means that the reality is the emptiness.Yes, we've established that. No one here has argued against the idea that you live and you die and there is no purpose provided to you. I think Lao Tzu is saying the clay is inert, it's just the physical matter, but it is the shape of it that makes it a pot. There's nothing in there, but that shape defines what we call a "pot". Then it's up to us to do something with that empty space. You just see the emptiness and try to make the clay disappear.
You are beating yourself up over trying to justify living a life without meaning. Yet the simple fact that you care so much about this proves, absolutely, that things in your life have meaning. There is no way to avoid that conclusion, so accept it and move on to the next stage of growth. It would be the height of lunacy to refuse to grow intellectually or emotionally because you insist on proving that nothing has intellectual or emotional meaning [read this sentence again and let the absurdity of it sink in].Well by definition there would be no such thing as growth or development, there is nowhere to go. That's nihilism essentially but Buddhism mentions something similar to that. The goals and markers that I felt good about in the past evaporated when I realized they never truly existed, and with such arbitrary markers for achievement I had nothing to really feel good about. Because I didn't "do" anything. Why is something considered great? Because everyone says so? Why? And does that make it so? The only saving grace I have so far is my bad memory and I temporarily forget about how meaningless everything is. The truth is that there is nothing in my life that has meaning, not anymore. I try to pretend the things I used to like are meaningful and matter, only for reality to creep in on me and drown it all out. It's an effort just to go to work, likely from some kind of survival drive still kicking me forward. Suicide is painful and not always successful so that keeps me locked into finding things to kill time until I kick the bucket.
I don’t have to prove that nothing has intellectual or emotional meaning because it already is so. Where it not then objective meaning would exist. It’s not justifying living without meaning, I don’t think so. Rather it’s not being able to cope with what is. As I may have already said, many times I know…, I value truth and paradoxically that means reckoning with life being meaningless and having no purpose and realizing that all the values you grew up with are little more than breath on the wind.
I take it you didn’t follow the link
Xain: "I value truth"You think you do, but you don't. You value confirmation of what you already think more than the truth.
This is a feature (bug?) in humans, so don’t feel too bad, but don’t let it be an excuse to keep doing it, either.
Lausten alone has given you tens of thousands of dollars worth of education to help you fix this problem, but you still think exactly like you did when you first arrived here looking for help. One who values truth would, if not change their thinking completely, have at least incorporated the truth that’s been repeatedly handed to them.
Don’t despair though. Like I said, you’re human and have the normal difficulties associated with seeing your ideas objectively so you can correct them. Many people get past that hurdle, and your inquisitiveness and tenacity on this topic will work in your favor to get past that hurdle as well.
I did follow the link but I fail to see how that relates to things mattering or not. He’s talking about the base nature of reality not where things matter or have value.
Rat, you still don’t get it. Lausten has not given me anything that is useful to stop nihilism. Because at the end of the day, no matter how much I want to protest, nothing truly matters. Objectively speaking there is no value for value is a judgment call which is based on personal feelings not data. Data only shows us what is, not what to do. My ideas are “objective” but in being so makes it hard for a subjective individual like me to follow then. Nihilism is the ultimate truth of our reality, and this isn’t confirmation bias. We’re into engage in confirmation I would look for information that says things matter or have some level of inherent worth. Yet these claims are false under intense scrutiny. So as much as I want to believe living is worthwhile and things matter I know objectively they don’t. So Lausten has not handed me any truths but more like ways to avoid dealing with what is the truth.
So it comes down to whether I can live a lie and pretend things matter or struggle to live according to what is true about existence.
Xain, You are choosing to believe nothing matters. I am telling you to not choose to believe that.
It is 100% your choice and only one of those choices is correct.
A baby will stop crying when it is picked up because it feels comforted. A mother bear will rip you to shreds if you get between her and her cub. A gold fish will orient and swim towards food dropped onto the surface of it’s tank. A person can feel guilty if they do something mean to someone else. A spider will race out onto it’s web when it feels the struggles of a trapped insect. Xain, you felt some emotion (dread, excitement, anticipation, etc) when logging into this forum for the first time today.
All of those biological reactions are real. Do you understand that? Real means they are real. You can’t dismiss them merely because there is an idea with a name (nihilism) that makes you think you can. Real things are real… full stop.
Nihilism is an example of an idea that is useful in only a narrow area (in this case, philosophical discussions, and that’s it.) It is not applicable when you walk out the door and live your life.
Lausten has not given me anything that is useful to stop nihilism. -- XainI did not know that's what I was tasked with. Here's one of the definitions of nihilism:
extreme skepticism maintaining that nothing in the world has a real existence.So, you have an extreme philosophy. What I was trying to do was to get you off of using Buddhism as a justification for nihilism. I think you just conceded that. Another definition:
the rejection of all religious and moral principles, in the belief that life is meaningless.So if you are a nihilist, then you are rejecting Buddhism, sort of a religion, and it definitely has moral principles, so you can't also use it to claim life is meaningless. You can google "is buddhism nihilism" and find scholarly articles and not-so-scholarly discussion on this.