Mother Jones Foggy Mental Breakdown.

Mother Jones ENVIRONMENT → Climate Change, Climate Desk, International, Top Stories America Is the Biggest Problem at the Climate Talks Wealthy countries caused the climate crisis. Now they’re trying to avoid paying to fix it. —By Ben Adler | Sat Dec. 5, 2015 12:05 AM EST
America is the biggest problem at the Climate Talks? America is the biggest problem at the Climate Talks?!!? We are rapidly expanding efforts to reduce greenhouse emissions with regulation on cars, power plants and investments in renewables etc.. Russia, China and India are doing Zero!! Zero! Russia and China officially refuse to admit, accept, or address AGW!! Let's not forget Brazil, Mexico and Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, and Iran...also in the top 20 list of emitters. I'm sure they're doing a hell of alot to remedy the situation.

Yeah and we got nothing to do with the insanity in the mid-east either. >:(

Yeah and we got nothing to do with the insanity in the mid-east either. >:(
Extrapolate this CC.

I don’t think it helps anything to villainize one country but we are certainly a big part of the problem. We produce more carbon per capita then any other country in the world ( see here: http://carbonfootprintofnations.com/content/carbon_footprint_worldwide_1990_2010_/) and the Republican Party has thwarted any effort to participate in prior international AGW agreements and continues to resist efforts to do anything about AGW. As a result we have NASA scientists being forbidden to discuss AGW and schools across the country banning AGW discussion in science classes. We have a lot of work to do if we are going to be a real world leader in combating AGW.

I don't think it helps anything to villainize one country but we are certainly a big part of the problem. We produce more carbon per capita then any other country in the world ( see here: http://carbonfootprintofnations.com/content/carbon_footprint_worldwide_1990_2010_/) and the Republican Party has thwarted any effort to participate in prior international AGW agreements and continues to resist efforts to do anything about AGW. As a result we have NASA scientists being forbidden to discuss AGW and schools across the country banning AGW discussion in science classes. We have a lot of work to do if we are going to be a real world leader in combating AGW.
That's completely true. But we are working on it...and I think have taken the lead on it. I believe China is the number one emitter though, gross aggregate...but who's counting? I know we aren't angels in this regard but Obama has really gotten this rolling and the country is much more aware of the problem than say 20 years ago. China India and Brazil aren't going to spend one penny on this. They're playing catch up. These nations don't want to be lectured by the US on AGW. They're gonna get their's just like we got ours.

Don’t really have the time
suffice it to say I am sick to my stomach of Americans constantly trying to imagine ourselves as the innocent bystanders -
When it was we and our global might, and the relentless greed of our businessmen and their politicians that has made this depressingly tragic,
dead-end world of today, not to mention the horrific future we are actively setting up for ourselves but mostly for our children to endure into ultimate oblivion.
Be it in appreciating serious climate science, or appreciating why the down-trodden are so pissed-off.
So we blithely march along, responding in the same way that lead to this deteriorating situation in the first place.
Demonize all we disagree with, while having angel wings safety-pinned to our shoulders. :blank:
Don’t get me wrong our culpability doesn’t make the Islamic crazies innocent - but blaming them on everything,
when it is we who enabled them at every turn materially and psychotically - is stupid and self destructive and oh so self-deceptive.
(that should have been psychologically - but the spell checker turned out to be profound this time)
Oh but we were talking about climate weren’t we.
We are the world leader, yet many, if not most of our politicians pretend an ancient book
(together with their greed-is-good ideology) should trump the understanding modern science affords us.
That is still alive and well.
Oh, and Obama saved his engagement for the lamb duck period of his presidency, sorry if I’m unimpressed.

Don't really have the time suffice it to say I am sick to my stomach of Americans constantly trying to imagine ourselves as the innocent bystanders - When it was we and our global might, and the relentless greed of our businessmen and their politicians that has made this depressingly tragic, dead-end world of today, not to mention the horrific future we are actively setting up for ourselves but mostly for our children to endure into ultimate oblivion. Be it in appreciating serious climate science, or appreciating why the down-trodden are so pissed-off. So we blithely march along... if not most of our politicians pretend an ancient book (together with their greed-is-good ideology) should trump the understanding modern science affords us. That is still alive and well. Oh, and Obama saved his engagement for the lamb duck period of his presidency, sorry if I'm unimpressed.
I just wanted to talk about climate change politics. I forgot that we are the only country that ever owned automobiles and coal plants...how silly of me.
Don't really have the time suffice it to say I am sick to my stomach of Americans constantly trying to imagine ourselves as the innocent bystanders
So it's going to be the US's fault that this COP21 is also going to fall way short of it's goals?
When it was we and our global might, and the relentless greed of our businessmen and their politicians that has made this depressingly tragic, dead-end world of today, not to mention the horrific future we are actively setting up for ourselves but mostly for our children to endure into ultimate oblivion.
Yeah the US is solely responsible for making a dead end world of today....wake up! CC! You're pathetic. Yes us and our might that produced billions of tons of food, goods and machines that the entire world imported and used to further their welfare and well being. When we exported millions of tractors around the world. When we sent millions of refrigerators around the world. Millions of tons of grain. But nobody wanted that stuff right? They all knew it was bad for the Earth. India, China, Mexico, just about every country there ever was. Now they all want to make stuff and export stuff. That's all our fault? China's plan for their contribution is to reach their peak emissions in 10 years. That's their cap. India is already saying they didn't start this, it's not their fault or their problem. They want others to pay for their emissions control.
Yeah the US is solely responsible for making a dead end world of today....wake up! CC! You're pathetic.
And you too are pathetic for feeling comfortable ignoring how we got here. http://www.merchantsofdoubt.org and the direction it's taken our country. Lip service to reality does not a good future make. _____________________________________________ If you want to get down to core causes, how about Our greed is good mentality, and the glorification of maximizing personal profits with complete disregard to externalities, and the Hollywoodization of everyone's expectations into the pathetically unrealistic level. Oh and don't forget USAs expectation that everyone fall into line with our desires, while we hold them in contempt. Nor should we forget our growing disconnect from our planet Earth and its natural processes that we dependent on for everything. The twentieth century was called the American century and it certainly was and we certainly dropped the ball. Pathetic yes indeed.

And no it’s not all our fault, nothing ever is, we are all guilty.
And please don’t bring up all the tractors we export while ignoring all the weapons we export. That would be sort of pathetic.

• Total global military expenditure has risen from US$1.14 trillion in 2001 to $US1.711 trillion in 2014, a rise of 50%. [Source: SIPRI – figures in constant 2011 prices/exchange rates] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/08/killer-facts-the-scale-of-the-global-arms-trade/ http://www.statista.com/topics/1696/defense-and-arms/
Our greed is good mentality, and the glorification of maximizing personal profits with complete disregard to externalities, and the Hollywoodization of everyone's expectations into the pathetically unrealistic level. Oh and don't forget USAs expectation that everyone fall into line with our desires, while we hold them in contempt. Nor should we forget our growing disconnect from our planet Earth and its natural processes that we dependent on for everything. The twentieth century was called the American century and it certainly was and we certainly dropped the ball. Pathetic yes indeed.
First off CC FWIW I regretted using the word pathetic shortly after I typed it. I was going to take it off but I figured you already saw it. I'm sorry I used that word. I used it because I was getting emotional over your emotions. The Twentieth Century was called all kinds of things. Pollution didn't start in the 20th Century. "Oh but it wasn't as severe as the 20th Century!" -Yeah but Pandoras Box was opened in the 19th Century. The 20th Century was Inevitable. As far as the 20th Century goes....we didn't start World War parts 1 and 2. Coupled with the USSR. Those things had a MASSIVE impact on the World. You say OUR greed as if we are some special distinct species apart from the rest of the world. Aside from that look at your arguments above, they are plastered with histrionics and unrelated or vague broad strokes about political social conditions. Your US bashing is getting unrealistic. There are rising nations who are going to play catch up with The US, Russia, Europe, China etc. It's that simple. The coal and the other fossil fuels were in the ground. What did you think humanity was going to do with it? What could you possibly think that humanity was going to do sitting on top of endless quantities of free, easy energy? Please don't give me some altruistic answer...if you do, you obviously have no clue about humanity.
It's that simple. The coal and the other fossil fuels were in the ground. What did you think humanity was going to do with it? What could you possibly think that humanity was going to do sitting on top of endless quantities of free, easy energy? Please don't give me some altruistic answer...if you do, you obviously have no clue about humanity.
Well back in the 60s 70s when it became abundantly obvious that humanity had crossed a threshold called the limits of growth because of insanely increasing populations and diminishing lebensraum and resources. Many of us hoped that humanity's higher faculties could manage to moderate our more primal tribal instincts. Instead we got Reaganomics and Hollywood block busters ever more unhinged from the real stuff life is all about. It's just been very sad watching all these decades worth of one stupid mistake and missed opportunity after another, all told ensuring our descent back into shades of barbarism with worse to come. Step by logical step.
Mother Jones ENVIRONMENT → Climate Change, Climate Desk, International, Top Stories America Is the Biggest Problem at the Climate Talks Wealthy countries caused the climate crisis. Now they’re trying to avoid paying to fix it. —By Ben Adler | Sat Dec. 5, 2015 12:05 AM EST
America is the biggest problem at the Climate Talks? America is the biggest problem at the Climate Talks?!!? We are rapidly expanding efforts to reduce greenhouse emissions with regulation on cars, power plants and investments in renewables etc.. Russia, China and India are doing Zero!! Zero! Russia and China officially refuse to admit, accept, or address AGW!! Let's not forget Brazil, Mexico and Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, and Iran...also in the top 20 list of emitters. I'm sure they're doing a hell of alot to remedy the situation.
Hey VYAZMA, have you read the article? I finally got around to it. It's a very provocative title, but it seemed to me the article was pretty even handed with plenty of blame to pass around for everyone. It seems to me it also makes some fundamentally accurate assessments, such as
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/12/paris-climate-change-cop21-climate-finance Take a step back and look at the problem of climate change through the lens of equity and environmental justice. From that perspective, each country's responsibility to cut emissions and invest in renewables at home and abroad is determined by how much climate pollution it has cumulatively emitted, and how much wealth per capita it has now.
As of 2011, the US was responsible for 27 percent of the world's cumulative greenhouse gas emissions—the largest share of any country— and the European Union collectively accounted for 25 percent. India, with a current-day population much larger than the EU and US combined, had emitted 3 percent. ...
Rich countries—most especially the US—are responsible for the bulk of the problem, have almost all the capacity to fix it, and should be on the hook for the vast majority of the solution. ... But none of that changes the need for developed countries to pony up more than they have. That is not just a matter of justice; it would be in everyone's interests, as it would allow the world to come away from Paris with a set of more ambitious climate pledges from developing countries.
Yeah, I know it's all a bunch of bull shit anyways, lots of talks and the can gets kicked down the road again. Admittedly, we're stuck on this wreck without much to be done, realistically, physically anymore. Too much runway behind us, too little left in front of us. But that wasn't so back in the seventies and eighties when the enormity of what we were doing became quite plain to recognize. Unless of course ideological consideration clouded one's rational objective abilities. But it demanded willingness to moderate our expectations and populations. We couldn't do it. We lose.

Incidentally VYAZMA, not sure you were around when I posted about this a few weeks back.
If you’re curious about my perspective on the thing, check out
http://thehumanist.com/magazine/november-december-2015/up-front/concerning-our-failure-to-appreciate-the-weather
I like to think it’s a pretty decent summation.

It’s a geo-political nut that has to be cracked CC. I know you know this already.
I think there is more runway in front of us than you might think.
This AGW problem is the same exact thing as an Arms Race.
On another note Obama said something in his speech which is very pertinent…people don’t like to sacrifice for problems that aren’t affecting them.
Those weren’t his words but it’s the same thing.
If the AGW side effects aren’t actually adversely affecting people, nobody is going to care.
So far the effects are no different than any "baseline radiation’.
I read both articles cited above, yes.

Our greed is good mentality, and the glorification of maximizing personal profits with complete disregard to externalities, The twentieth century was called the American century and it certainly was and we certainly dropped the ball. Pathetic yes indeed.
The Twentieth Century was called all kinds of things. Pollution didn't start in the 20th Century. "Oh but it wasn't as severe as the 20th Century!" -Yeah but Pandoras Box was opened in the 19th Century. The 20th Century was Inevitable. As far as the 20th Century goes....we didn't start World War parts 1 and 2. Coupled with the USSR. Those things had a MASSIVE impact on the World. You say OUR greed as if we are some special distinct species apart from the rest of the world. Planned Obsolescence did not start until the 1920s in the United States. The Communist economists should have noticed that the Capitalist economists were ignoring the depreciation of durable consumer goods in the 1950s. But instead the US and the USSR almost had a nuclear war over defective algebra in 1962. http://www.toxicdrums.com/economic-wargames-by-dal-timgar.html We have a problem with adjusting culture to technology, people don't think enough and change to slow. Blame it on Europeans, and White Americans are Europeans. The science and technology is created by a tiny percentage of the population. Then the masses get to do brainless shit with it. Redesigning cars every year makes no sense. psik
Redesigning cars every year makes no sense. psik
Yup, and throw away appliances and computers, etc., etc. How about if somewhere we had the sense to say lease our car tires, so that the old tires go back to the manufacturer for retreading or for repurposing into different products. Same with those poison filled batteries, particular the new ones with all the rare minerals. And so on and so forth. But, that would have all taken a sense of 'kinship' and feeling of 'responsibility' and 'appreciation' and even nurturing duty towards our planet Earth. Can't do that if maximizing profits is all your life is dedicated to. Instead seems like most everyone chose to shove their heads up ancients books that were focused on tribalism and contempt for the planet that sustains everything we hold near and dear.
It's a geo-political nut that has to be cracked CC. I know you know this already. I think there is more runway in front of us than you might think.
I would love for you to be correct and me to be very wrong on that call. Unfortunately, in your next sentences you robbed me of that ephemeral optimism. You are very wrong thinking that global warming is exactly like the arms race which was 100% manmade and 100% man-controlled. We are dealing with Earth processes that unfold over hundreds and thousands of years. This may be manmade, but it's acting on a system that runs by it's own rules on a time scale human can't fathom. When you have a runaway freighter, waiting until we can actually start measuring the damage happening to the hull - equals waiting too long to do anything about the crunch up. That is the road Republicans and most everyone else is advocating. Let our kids figure it out, it's too tough for us. That's the problem with the entire right-wing (as reflect by what their various PR sources put out) and much of the rest of humanity, they simply can't get beyond their one-dimensional cartoonish understanding of our planet Earth, when it comes to actually appreciating what our huge geophysical planet is about, it's a big gapping void. Worse they don't care - Hollywood, fashion, gossip and pro-sports produce all the intellectual stimulation they seem to need. :down:

No. It’s like an arms race geo-politically because Nations do not want to slow their technological and industrial progress for mainly economic and strategic reasons.
Yes? You get this don’t you?

As long as there are people in the world who want to have enough food to eat, decent clothes to wear, decent shelter, communications, transportation, invention, exploitation of resources, education and a generally easier life, we are going to have pollution. So far the only real answer has been to deprive large segments of the world’s population of those things and to blame the producers of those improvements to life for polluting the atmosphere. It isn’t going to stop. Pollution is the result of producing goods everyone wants. Shortages produce competition, competition creates the desire to control the flow of goods, often resorting to force–often through war, territorialism, and terrorism. Right now there are too many people demanding goods. I see no relief to the pollution of producing goods except to lower and control our numbers. The inevitable result of not doing this is famine, disease, a general lack of necessities and world-wide poverty. If we don’t get a handle on it–a global handle–nature will take its course globally. Indications of this are already obvious. Can we humans control our desire and ability to create goods and distribute them as we see fit? Are we willing to control the poor distribution of goods and wealth? Are we willing to control our war-like competitive natures? I doubt it.

No. It's like an arms race geo-politically because Nations do not want to slow their technological and industrial progress for mainly economic and strategic reasons. Yes? You get this don't you?
I get "Nations do not want to slow their technological and industrial progress for mainly economic and strategic reasons" part but the rest of it don't make any sense. What's any of that got to do with what we have done to our planet's geophysical processes?
As long as there are people in the world who want to have enough food to eat, decent clothes to wear, decent shelter, communications, transportation, invention, exploitation of resources, education and a generally easier life, we are going to have pollution. So far the only real answer has been to deprive large segments of the world's population of those things and to blame the producers of those improvements to life for polluting the atmosphere. It isn't going to stop. Pollution is the result of producing goods everyone wants. Shortages produce competition, competition creates the desire to control the flow of goods, often resorting to force--often through war, territorialism, and terrorism. Right now there are too many people demanding goods. I see no relief to the pollution of producing goods except to lower and control our numbers. The inevitable result of not doing this is famine, disease, a general lack of necessities and world-wide poverty. If we don't get a handle on it--a global handle--nature will take its course globally. Indications of this are already obvious. Can we humans control our desire and ability to create goods and distribute them as we see fit? Are we willing to control the poor distribution of goods and wealth? Are we willing to control our war-like competitive natures? I doubt it.
Which brings me right back to my runway nightmare.