I am an atheist and I don’t think atheism is all that it is made out to be. I think atheists who find meaning and value in this life of mortality and suffering through their atheism are being way too optimistic. They tell you that your life can still have full meaning despite it being the one and only life we have which unfortunately happens to consist of much suffering. I just think that is way too optimistic and unrealistic.
There are many people in this world who go through suffering to such a great degree that it is beyond your comprehension. A severely crippled treatment resistant depressed person will struggle with severe crippling depression and be on the brink of suicide throughout his/her life and here you are telling him/her that he/she can still have love, joy, happiness, inspiration, and good meaning in his/her life. That his/her life can be so wonderful even while struggling with that crippling depression.
Another example. A person will go through severe suffering, find no good meaning in his/her life, never got the chance to inspire the world or do anything great in their lives, and then just die shortly afterwards with no eternal blissful afterlife as a reward for his/her misery and meaningless life. You atheists are just blindly and ignorantly leaving out the suffering and meaningless lives of other people. It is no different than how many religious people are also too optimistic as well. They also blindly and ignorantly leave out the suffering of others.
The greatest and most innocent caring people in this world will be born into this world only to have so much suffering, depression, and lack of meaning in their lives and to just die in the end. And all of this because they were simply “unfortunate.” We deserve better than that. We deserve an eternal blissful life of no more suffering created here on Earth through science in the future and for science to resurrect people such as me who have missed out on all the meaning of this life so we can live this eternal blissful life in the future.
It is like they say. It is often pessimists who see the truth while optimists tend to be blind. So I can clearly see the truth here. That being, there is nothing good at all about this being the one and only life we have. It might be for some people. But for many others, it consists virtually of suffering and the absence of good meaning. Both atheism and religious belief have their upsides and downsides. But the way I see it, atheism has the far greater downside when it comes to those types of unfortunate people I mentioned.
In conclusion, many people would say to me that it is impossible to create an eternal blissful life through science in the future and to resurrect people who have died and rotted away. But science has been achieving many things that we once thought were impossible in the past. Therefore, we shouldn’t give up on trying to create an eternal blissful life and to resurrect those who have missed out. Even if it is somehow impossible to achieve this, then at least it was the greatest intellectual challenge for scientists to try and achieve it.
I think atheists who find meaning and value in this life of mortality and suffering through their atheism are being way too optimistic.That is where your thinking derails. I find my meaning in life through humanism. Atheism merely means not believing in gods.
Hey Mozart, I was just thinking about you the other day. I saved a few notes after our last conversation, but I might lost them. Currently I’m reading Victor Frankl’s Man’s Search for Meaning. He went through a Nazi concentration camp, about as horrible an existence as you can get, but managed to find meaning during that. Pretty amazing.
... I think atheists who find meaning and value in this life of mortality and suffering through their atheism are being way too optimistic. ... there is nothing good at all about this being the one and only life we have. It might be for some people. ... we shouldn't give up on trying to create an eternal blissful life and to resurrect those who have missed out. Even if it is somehow impossible to achieve this, then at least it was the greatest intellectual challenge for scientists to try and achieve it.I partly agree, and partly disagree. I think humanity is hugely disappointing and depressing, for the reasons you cite. That would be true regardless of my view on gods. We are a species just barely smart enough for our best to recognize how stupid most are, but not smart enough to do anything about it. That's about it. Atheism doesn't require, nor does it produce, optimism. And many people claiming to be atheist aren't. They just like the politics typically associated with atheism. What atheism does do is cut away all the crap, giving you a clearer picture of the world to be optimistic, neutral, or pessimistic about. You could be optimistic that life, the universe (and everything?) has an end. That means you won't have to suffer a boring eternity (and in eternity, it always gets boring). No matter how bad things are, they will end. You could also be optimistic that humanity probably isn't the universe's only adventure into "intelligent" life, and that perhaps some other species is really accomplishing things, getting something out of this universe, and enjoying it, before it's time to say goodbye. Ultimately, the interpretation is up to you, as nothing is inherently "good" or "bad". It is simply what is. I would say that we shouldn't spend time on things if we know they aren't achievable. There will be time for that later, if it's somehow interesting. Let's work on stuff that we think may be achievable, and necessary.
We deserve an eternal blissful life of no more suffering created here on Earth through science in the future and for science to resurrect people such as me who have missed out on all the meaning of this life so we can live this eternal blissful life in the future.Sounds like magical thinking to me. As long as you keep hoping for this impossible dream, you are bound to be disappointed. Which is why I question your claim to be an atheist. Most atheists I know accept the reality of the world around them and make the best of it, instead of wishing for something that will probably never happen.
Who ever claimed that atheists find meaning and value in life through their atheism? Atheists find meaning in their lives through rational thinking, not atheism. Atheism is just another position motivated and supported by rational thinking. Anyone who would make such a statement has had his mind contaminated by theistic religion and has been indoctrinated to think that theistic religion is necessary to finding meaning in life. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is no connection.
Lois
Here are a few good quotes by Dan Barker
“The atheists I know, virtually all of whom are happy and mentally healthy, might more properly be called anti-nihilists. We are mainly optimists who love our lives and find them to be full of meaning and purpose."
― Dan Barker, Life Driven Purpose: How an Atheist Finds Meaning
“But purpose is personal. It can’t be right or wrong. It can’t be true or false. It can’t not be about you. It’s how you decide to live your own life. If someone else tells you how to live, you are not free. If you don’t choose your own purpose, you are a slave."
― Dan Barker, Life Driven Purpose: How an Atheist Finds Meaning
“According to believers like Craig who are unhappy with blunt reality, life needs to be more than it is, otherwise it is absurd, and since we can’t possibly allow life to be absurd, then life must be more than it is! As an atheist, I think that is absurd."
― Dan Barker, Life Driven Purpose: How an Atheist Finds Meaning
“The preachers have got it completely backward. If life is eternal, then life is cheap. Value does not come from surplus; it comes from rarity. Prices rise as supply drops. The reality that our lives are brief is what makes them precious. The fact that they will end makes them more meaningful. “Ultimate purpose" is no purpose at all: it is the surrender of purpose. It is the pretense that faith equals meaning."
― Dan Barker, Life Driven Purpose: How an Atheist Finds Meaning
He also said that asking what is the purpose or meaning of life is the wrong question. You might as well ask what is the life of life?
This is from Victor Frankl
We can answer these questions from experience as well as on principle. The experiences of camp life show that man does have a choice of action. There were enough examples, often of a heroic nature, which proved that apathy could be overcome, irritability suppressed. Man can preserve a vestige of spiritual freedom, of independence of mind, even in such terrible conditions of psychic and physical stress. We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men walked through the huts, comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms – to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way. … In the final analysis it becomes clear that the sort of person the prisoner became was the result of an inner decision, and not the result of camp influences alone. Fundamentally, therefore, any man can, even under such circumstances, decide what shall become of him – mentally and spiritually. He may retain his human dignity even in a concentration camp.It kinda blows your analysis out of the water. It doesn't address mental illness however. It assumes a certain ability to think clearly, an ability to make a rational choice. Severe chronic depression prevents that, as do other ailments. But you don't speak to mental ailments, you generalize about "atheists" and you do assume that they are thinking through their personal choices.