Magic Man ~ God

Religion and Secularism
101

@Lausten:

Your questions? Oh, you mean the correct teachings of Jesus right?

Well, since I seem to know them and agree with them, could it be that what I have been talking about on this forum, are the correct teachings of Jesus then? Could it be I was already answering your question, by example? Or maybe I am full of it right?

Lets think about it logically here for a second and we are going to assume here that God exists and God and Jesus are the same entity. Do you really think, in that context, that, an intelligence of that caliber would be an asshole? Wanting people to do stupid things? People know themselves what stupid behavior is right? And, some by experience, what it leads to right? Being nice to others, getting rid of greed/envy, respecting others… You think that would work? If people did that? Getting rid of fear, how about that? If you did everything at your disposal to do things right, what would you be afraid of? Judgement? Hell? Other people’s opinion? They can all have one, doesn’t mean anything. Can you defend your life? It is not about the exact verse in a book Lausten. It is about making decisions, looking ahead and attempting at all cost to minimize the negative impact on others. When people finally learn that, I will be impressed.

I wrote something just now that reminded me of a movie. It is not my usual genre, but I enjoyed it. Maybe some people here would like it as well. It is called “Defending your life”. Got a link here. Have a nice day!

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0101698/

102

@blaire

Fear Not! Demons aren’t anymore real than the boogeyman.

Lucipher, The Devil, Mark of The Beast, Beelzebub and Satan

Many Christians believe the devil was once a beautiful angel named Lucipher who defied God and fell from grace.


Forget the Christians, I am talking about you. The mark of the beast is anyone who is against freedom of worship and a defender of immoral lifestyles. To the beast, fornication is ok but living a good Christian life is not.

103
Well, since I seem to know them and agree with them, could it be that what I have been talking about on this forum, are the correct teachings of Jesus then? -- MM
I don’t understand the logic of this. I wasn’t quizzing you. In my opinion, no one knows what the “the correct” teachings are. You can’t determine them from the Bible because what’s there has contradictions. It gets worse when you start studying theologians.
we are going to assume here that God exists
I’m granting that for the sake of argument, but that’s all
Being nice to others, getting rid of greed/envy, respecting others.. You think that would work? If people did that? Getting rid of fear, how about that? If you did everything at your disposal to do things right, what would you be afraid of?
That’s it? I don’t see anything unique to Jesus there. These are the basic values of decent society. The hard part is getting everyone to agree on how to implement them, how to take care of the transgressors, how to teach them.
It is not about the exact verse in a book Lausten.
Umm, that’s my line.
104
That’s it? I don’t see anything unique to Jesus there. These are the basic values of decent society. The hard part is getting everyone to agree on how to implement them, how to take care of the transgressors, how to teach them. - Lausten
Descent societies exist today on account of Jesus. Western governments implement Christian values, and their justice systems deal with lawbreakers in accordance with their penal codes. If these societies are not decent enough, what society on earth do you have in mind?
105

@mountainman

It is not about the exact verse in a book Lausten. It is about making decisions, looking ahead and attempting at all cost to minimize the negative impact on others.
The human digit is basically selfish. People are hardwired that way. By being selfish, I don't mean grabbing all the food for oneself while others starve. Take Steve Jobs, for example. He was not the conventional master of the universe driven by greed. He wasn't born rich, went around barefoot even as CEO of Apple, and was into Buddhist philosophy. And yet, he ended up as a billionaire on account of his passion for what he was creating. You seem to be pretty passionate also. You have strong feelings about the state of the world. Such energy impacts society and brings about change.
106

@Lausten:

So, sree kind of answered your statement already. Correctly. The correct teachings had already been picked up by others, who at least attempted to live accordingly. So, nowadays you already have an example of how that goes. People base their current knowledge and understanding on what is already there and very often base their new developments on said knowledge and understanding. Without a good base. What would happen? Well, I used to live in a country, that is now more than 50% atheist/irreligious. The behavior of people there leaves much to be desired. They are rude, obnoxious, thinking they are oh so smart assclowns. Really. Personal experience.

So, what? Do I still have to prove you wrong now or what? And even if I show you something, then what? Lets say you then still say, I don’t believe it? It is all coincidence right? That is what a lot of people seem to think walking around with their eyes wide shut correct? Hey, if I can prove something related to God, am I then also eligible for the 250.000 dollar grand prize? It is considered supernatural no? Besides the fact I do not care about money, I would have a great plan for it. I would go to a city, walk around, look for homeless people and give them 100 euros each and get out of there fast. Last time I did something like that with less money I got surrounded by 20 homeless people all talking at the same time. And I had no more money.

Have a nice day!

107
If these societies are not decent enough, what society on earth do you have in mind? --Sree
The entire continents that we now call the Americas were doing just fine before 1491
108
People base their current knowledge and understanding on what is already there and very often base their new developments on said knowledge and understanding. – MM
Again, that’s my line. We seem to agree on everything, except that there is a God, its name is Jesus, and its teachings are the most awesome thing ever. We agree that people pass on knowledge to the next generation. Somewhere way back there, some early humans nurtured their children and learned to communicate before getting violent and those are the ones that we are descended from.

Sounds like the actual problem here is you had some bad personal experiences with atheists. Well, I’ve had some bad experiences with religious people but I try not to let it change my logic. I’ve had a few run ins with atheists too.

No, you don’t have to prove me wrong. I’m not even sure what it is we are discussing anymore, you have brought up so many topics without going in to detail on any of them. We would have to start somewhere like; what is belief?

109
"We would have to start somewhere like; what is belief?"
Mountain Man does need to settle down and focus. He has some good ideas. He has some not good ideas too.

To reduce future misunderstandings he should start by answering Lausten’s question. Unfortunately any answer will lead to a ton more questions and probably more misunderstandings too, but you have to start somewhere to get anywhere.

I’ll start: My definition of belief is, “Holding something to be true.” It is usually used when there is possible doubt or no way to prove the idea. For example people don’t bother saying they believe their parents exist, but they do say they believe their parents are the best ever (at least my kids do.) In this forum, it’s most often used when talking about a god.

This is a very basic definition, but basic is good at this stage.

110
No, you don’t have to prove me wrong. I’m not even sure what it is we are discussing anymore, you have brought up so many topics without going in to detail on any of them. - Lausten
I noticed that also. Mountainman just says enough - superficially - to address your questions and those from others here without going further in-depth. Look at what happened to Jesus who went into detail as you want Mountainman to do. Are you are just waiting for an opening to nail him?
We would have to start somewhere like; what is belief? - Lausten
Is this an honest inquiry? Your question would be great if you were really interested in Mountainman's viewpoint and willing to listen with prejudice.

 

 

111
Mountain Man does need to settle down and focus. He has some good ideas. He has some not good ideas too. - 3point
Sounds fair. If the moderator position is open for election, you have my vote.

 

112

@Lausten: What is belief?

Fine. I will play along.

Belief, as a singular word means Taking something as true, without any evidence to support it.

However, religious belief originally did not have that same meaning and has been muddled up by people who think they are very clever. In that way, they attempt to shove an automatic no evidence claim on religious people by using semantics.

Religious belief should be regarded as following a certain teaching. Nothing more.

I on the other hand do not believe anything. I know or I don’t know. And if I don’t know, I will figure out if it is true or not. I might have the inclination to think something is true or not, based on other knowledge I have already gathered. But that is not a belief.

Have a nice day!

 

113
Mountain Man: "Belief, as a singular word means Taking something as true, without any evidence to support it.

However, religious belief originally did not have that same meaning"


If “belief” means, “Taking something as true, without any evidence to support it”, but, “religious belief originally did not have that same meaning”, then what did “religious belief” mean?

Your definition of “belief” sounds tailor made for believing a religion, so how are clever people muddling things up if it’s accurate?

114

Rob Bell or maybe it was Crossan had something about the formally meaning “be-love”. Whatever, look it up.

Not a bad start. I often say I don’t believe much.

Would you like to pick the next point?

115

Inspired by pi guy here, 3point14, I would like to ask a science related question. Since many scientific formulas have the number pi as well. So, it would seem a circle is based off the number pi, you can make a circle with circumference pi. Someone then told me that circles also exist in nature. Fine. But, if pi is 3 and an infinite number behind the . , how does the start point ever touch the end point of the circle? Nature certainly does not round numbers does it? When will the circle be complete? How long is that line then exactly? Just wondering, since not a single person has been able to answer me this question.

116

1/3 = 0.333333333333333(with threes going on forever.)

Can you measure 1/3 of something if the decimal form of the fraction is an infinitely long number?

I can: 1/3 of a 6 foot board is a 2 foot board.

This is an apparent paradox that really isn’t one. It’s similar to Xeno’s paradox where you can never catch someone ahead of you since you have to cover half the distance, then half that distance, then half that distance, etc., ad infinitum.

117

Interesting.

I will ask one more question and I will leave the floor to someone else. I once watched this interview, Richard Dawkins with Ben Stein and Richard, the Dawkinator right? Seems to have said something along the lines that he could possibly entertain the idea that life on this planet might have been seeded/created by extraterrestrials. Any other people here think that/agree with that?

118
Any other people here think that/agree with that? -- MM
It's my favorite theory. I'm writing a science fiction book where we meet people from another planet who figured out that they were seeded from a comet that dropped bacteria on their planet, and we were seeded from the same comet.
119
and I will leave the floor to someone else. -- mm
I figured you might just take a pass when asked to pick a point. I'm not just going to pick from the myriad of topics you've touched on and respond, because you've already shown that you will only 1/4 answer and start 2 other topics in the process. I compiled this list of quotes from you. If I mistyped one, correct it, quoted out of context, fill it in. Or if leaving is your thing, well, it's been fun.

Why then would he (God) have to explain anything really?

…death and misery was caused by people not following the guidelines outlined in the biblical texts, wasn’t it?

Why would he create something and interact with it having absolutely no connection with it right? (not sure what the point was here, 336763)

Well, I bet there is something to this reality that shows it was designed. Maybe people have overlooked it. You can not seriously tell me you are so sure that people have things figured out so well correct? A lot of unknowns no?

People claiming God is an unknowable, always invisible something right? That is not what I have understood, but anyway.

What people call God is an entity of creation. (336830, long post)

I state that certain things Jesus said were modified by people to suit their own needs etc.

No uncontrolled system will ever give you anything useful ever, no matter how long you run it. That is because, simply, to make it into anything useful something/an intelligence needs to stop it, to control it, to set rules when it actually does something of value.

You then go straight to evolution, while I was actually referring to the 3 forces and gravity. Maybe I should have been more clear, sorry about that. They are rules. Evolution, a still unproven idea.

I do not think there ever were an Adam and Eve. It is a story that does not match the beginning of genesis at all. It states God can speak things into existence. What sense does it make he would suddenly need dust and ribs to create people? That story must of originated from something else.

Most people, and I have met quite a few, spend most of their time in their lives working, in certain cases even a job they do not want to do, so they can keep running from paycheck to paycheck to pay bills all based on a trading system, money, that doesn’t even exist. <and> The point is, the economy, the monetary system, are not fixed rulesets of this reality. They are made up by people.

And with that statement I was referring to mathematics, true randomness, and how these concepts actually work.

(regarding the teachings of Jesus) Well, since I seem to know them and agree with them, could it be that what I have been talking about on this forum, are the correct teachings of Jesus then? Could it be I was already answering your question, by example?

Being nice to others, getting rid of greed/envy, respecting others… You think that would work?

The correct teachings had already been picked up by others, who at least attempted to live accordingly. So, nowadays you already have an example of how that goes. People base their current knowledge and understanding on what is already there and very often base their new developments on said knowledge and understanding.

Hey, if I can prove something related to God, am I then also eligible for the 250.000 dollar grand prize? It is considered supernatural no?

120

@Lausten: What is the purpose of those quotes? What do you want with that? You want more explanation or what? I could do that, but you said: “No, you don’t have to prove me wrong.”

By the way, nice you are writing a book. Hope you finish it and it is good. Would like to read it. I think it is really interesting, the extraterrestrial angle. Because, certain people have no issue believing in that possibility right? Have you ever seen star trek: The next generation? Fantastic show right? Hey, and Q, an extraterrestrial no? He seems to be quite powerful in the show. Could just about pull a whole universe out of his sleeve could he not? I love this compilation of clips from the show. Have people seen them? I would recommend a view.

https://youtu.be/kBwoEXlTph0