"Evil" does not exist?

I am reading a fictional novel by Anne Rice and one of the characters presents the concept the evil does not really exist, only mistakes. Actions we perceive as “evil” are results of hormones, chemical reactions in the brain and even mental illness–but there is nothing behind it beyond that (i.e. supernatural forces such as evil). I agree. I don’t think this would be well received in general society though, but it is the only scientific answer, in my opinion. What do you think?

I’ve read a couple of Anne’s books. She strikes me as a very sharp writer. And for there being a lot of intelligence in the books, they’re still easy to read. She’s good.
I also think that this “evil” concept permeates her books; she just doesn’t always spell it out.

I am reading a fictional novel by Anne Rice and one of the characters presents the concept the evil does not really exist, only mistakes. Actions we perceive as "evil" are results of hormones, chemical reactions in the brain and even mental illness--but there is nothing behind it beyond that (i.e. supernatural forces such as evil). I agree. I don't think this would be well received in general society though, but it is the only scientific answer, in my opinion. What do you think?
I agree with her analysis. Evil is a supernatural concept. I reject all supernatural concepts. None has any objective evidence. You're right that it would not be well received by general society, but general society has an unshakable belief in the supernatural. It has no effect on the truth. Ann Rice sounds like a skeptic at heart, maybe even an atheist. Lois
I agree.
Two words: Charles Manson. So much for the notion that evil does not exist.
I agree.
Two words: Charles Manson. So much for the notion that evil does not exist.
I am not sure I understand. Can you explain?
I am not sure I understand. Can you explain?
If you and anybody else reading through this thread do not understand who and what Charles Manson is, then you're all so far out of touch with all reality, there's no point in even going on. To say that this guy and his followers are poster children FOR the death penalty is the grandest of understatements. If you can't understand that, try checking out guys like Hitler, and Stalin. Maybe then, somebody will get it. Evil exists. That's not a supernatural precept.
I am not sure I understand. Can you explain? If you and anybody else reading through this thread do not understand who and what Charles Manson is, then you’re all so far out of touch with all reality, there’s no point in even going on. To say that this guy and his followers are poster children FOR the death penalty is the grandest of understatements. If you can’t understand that, try checking out guys like Hitler, and Stalin. Maybe then, somebody will get it. Evil exists. That’s not a supernatural precept.
Unfortunately EOC this is someone I know a lot about as his mother was born and raised in my home town, and he spent his early years in our area with his aunt and uncle near Charleston, WV. Not only did he committ petty crimes, but they investigated the murder of one of his relatives here. Given his abusive background I have to agree with Lois that there was no supernatural motivation. Mansion, in all probability was born with sociopathic tendencies and his lack of nurturing helped to create a true psychopath. Neuroscience is revealing that certain anomalies in the brain create sociopathic tendencies and given the right nurturing switch (or lack of) a psychopath is born. Also remember that Hitler's father (who married his own niece and had little Adolph) hated Hitler and beat him often. Hitler responded in kind and hated Dad. He lived in a fantasy World and when he became powerful acted on those fantasies. Yes, I'll readily agree that there are evil people in the World who have no empathy nor sympathy for their fellow man but no Satan caused it. Besides he exists only in the brain anyway; we made him up. Cap't Jack
Ann Rice sounds like a skeptic at heart, maybe even an atheist. Lois
Out of curiosity I checked her website. I don't think she's an atheist, or a skeptic of any sort, judging by the quotes] she put on her site.
I agree.
Two words: Charles Manson. So much for the notion that evil does not exist.
Still doesn't. Many factors went into making Charles Manson amd none of them was the supernatural. They were all natural phenomena. It could happen again or it could be worse. Does it make you feel better to think it comes out of some supernatural force instead of natural forces? I've never been able to understand people's tendency to believe that. If it's natural it can be analyzed, understood and perhaps prevented. If you attribute it to the supernatural it's an excuse to throw up your hands and say it's beyond understanding. That's what they used to say about mental illness in general. It's an excuse to do nothing, IMO. Lois
I am not sure I understand. Can you explain?
If you and anybody else reading through this thread do not understand who and what Charles Manson is, then you're all so far out of touch with all reality, there's no point in even going on. To say that this guy and his followers are poster children FOR the death penalty is the grandest of understatements. If you can't understand that, try checking out guys like Hitler, and Stalin. Maybe then, somebody will get it. Evil exists. That's not a supernatural precept.
If it isn't supernatural, what is it? Where does it come from? Can you show any objective evidence that aything that you call evil exists? Lois
I am not sure I understand. Can you explain? If you and anybody else reading through this thread do not understand who and what Charles Manson is, then you’re all so far out of touch with all reality, there’s no point in even going on. To say that this guy and his followers are poster children FOR the death penalty is the grandest of understatements. If you can’t understand that, try checking out guys like Hitler, and Stalin. Maybe then, somebody will get it. Evil exists. That’s not a supernatural precept.
Unfortunately EOC this is someone I know a lot about as his mother was born and raised in my home town, and he spent his early years in our area with his aunt and uncle near Charleston, WV. Not only did he committ petty crimes, but they investigated the murder of one of his relatives here. Given his abusive background I have to agree with Lois that there was no supernatural motivation. Mansion, in all probability was born with sociopathic tendencies and his lack of nurturing helped to create a true psychopath. Neuroscience is revealing that certain anomalies in the brain create sociopathic tendencies and given the right nurturing switch (or lack of) a psychopath is born. Also remember that Hitler's father (who married his own niece and had little Adolph) hated Hitler and beat him often. Hitler responded in kind and hated Dad. He lived in a fantasy World and when he became powerful acted on those fantasies. Yes, I'll readily agree that there are evil people in the World who have no empathy nor sympathy for their fellow man but no Satan caused it. Besides he exists only in the brain anyway; we made him up. Cap't Jack
You're right, Jack everything has a natural explanation. But it may be impossible to convince people who believe in what they call evil, which they can't define. It's like trying to get a person to define god or to understand that it's a myth. The concepts of Evil and god have a lot in common, they're easy answers that stand in for rational analysis of what is going on around us. Lois
Ann Rice sounds like a skeptic at heart, maybe even an atheist. Lois
Out of curiosity I checked her website. I don't think she's an atheist, or a skeptic of any sort, judging by the quotes] she put on her site. Thanks. I guess I was hoping for something better. Lois

Evil just means “really bad”. I agree that so called evil behavior is a result of biology, like all behavior is.
However, it’s in our nature to perceive things to be good, evil, etc. and that is what matters.

I am not sure I understand. Can you explain?
If you and anybody else reading through this thread do not understand who and what Charles Manson is, then you're all so far out of touch with all reality, there's no point in even going on. To say that this guy and his followers are poster children FOR the death penalty is the grandest of understatements. If you can't understand that, try checking out guys like Hitler, and Stalin. Maybe then, somebody will get it. Evil exists. That's not a supernatural precept.
Of course I know who Charles Manson and all the rest of the individuals you named are; the point of my original post is that people in society generally do not accept the concept the evil does not exist--see my original post. You proved that point in your first response. The point of the thread was to present the concept that certain people attribute what most of society perceives as "evil" to mental illness, chemical imbalances mixed with hormones. Sometimes, these factors can sway people to be completely against the death penalty. When I originally posted, I wasn't exactly thinking of a 5 year old taking bubble gum from a candy shop without paying.
I am reading a fictional novel by Anne Rice and one of the characters presents the concept the evil does not really exist, only mistakes. Actions we perceive as "evil" are results of hormones, chemical reactions in the brain and even mental illness--but there is nothing behind it beyond that (i.e. supernatural forces such as evil). I agree. I don't think this would be well received in general society though, but it is the only scientific answer, in my opinion. What do you think?
I agree with her analysis. Evil is a supernatural concept. I reject all supernatural concepts. None has any objective evidence. You're right that it would not be well received by general society, but general society has an unshakable belief in the supernatural. It has no effect on the truth. Ann Rice sounds like a skeptic at heart, maybe even an atheist. Lois Anne seems to be an atheist but also remains fascinated by religion and lived part of her life under Catholic influence. At times, she has seemingly vacillated between atheism and Christianity. Check out the section on her "Renunciation of Christianity", if interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_rice I follow her on Facebook and I can say with certainty that she is not a traditional Christian, if one at all.
You’re right, Jack everything has a natural explanation. But it may be impossible to convince people who believe in what they call evil, which they can’t define. It’s like trying to get a person to define god or to understand that it’s a myth. The concepts of Evil and god have a lot in common, they’re easy answers that stand in for rational analysis of what is going on around us.
Advancements in the field of neuroscience have uncovered more evidence of the causes of sociopathy and psychopathy. The problem seems to lie in the underdevelopment of areas in the prefrontal cortex and PET scans on criminals confirm it. Injuries to the brain may also alter personality, creating sociopathic behavior. Most are born without sympathy or remorse, are often thrill seekers and can appear to be normal when they need to but they're only acting a part. There's a lot of research on this and IMO a great place to start is Pinker's book "How the Mind Works". Another good one is Barbara Oakley's "Evil Genes". Both discuss the causes of these abnormalities that our ancestors chalked up to a supernatural evil guy. Well, it made sense then, if there is a good god or goddess it has to be balanced with a bad guy. No human could be THAT evil and thoughtless so it had to be some malevolent outside influence. Besides, it's a lot easier to say "the devil made me do it" than to admit that you have a brain malfunction, and you don't have to do all that boring research when you can read some bronze age tome that explains it all, and it has an escape clause for all the evil you did! Cap't Jack

This subject is a tough one to even be free to discuss with most people, religious or not, because instead of defeating another person’s cling to moral absolution, it sometimes has undesirable consequences on you for just arguing it. While I absolutely agree that no moral absolution exists, I’ve had experienced unintended bad consequences towards myself and those I’ve discussed this with. For some, I think I convinced the rationality of it without realizing that in their state of loss, they acted out in undesirable ways that previously kept them in check.
One guy I remember had seemed intellectual and interesting to discuss this with. He agreed with my argument. And then he confessed that he often liked to go out and bash people on the street at night and steal their money! In the following days after he said this to me, a report on the news came out about how this guy was mugged in this very guy’s neighborhood, hospitalized and almost dead. I was afraid of going directly to the police for obvious reasons and instead used the “Crime Stoppers” to report this too.
I’ve also discussed this with people I have become close to only discover that their disgust for the realization of it made me a bearer of bad news and sometimes even caused them to feel justified in behaving in derogatory ways toward me. Note that even many atheists will have the same response. It is one of the reasons that the Skeptical Inquirer and this site base their ideological conceptions around the title, “humanist” as opposed to atheism.
While we may recognize that morals are mere conventional concepts, a caution for discussing this with others is necessary because for those ill equipped to handle a truth without their own stability and self discovered insights on the issue, can be very dangerous to yourself, the person you discussed this with, and those this person could potentially act out on. I believe some psychological and gradual preparation is needed for some to adjust to certain truths healthily. I want to believe it, but I am convinced that truth can be harmful to one’s health and welfare. What’s worse, even internalizing that truth is an unwelcome and often destructive force in personal relationships, I am so habituated and comfortable with regards to matters of truth that it is harder in many ways to avoid it in practice.
I point to one author in regards to how and why people do actually succeed in relations: Robert Greene. His main opus was “The 48 Law of Power”. I was at first disgusted with its truth and yet couldn’t deny it. In fact, when the person person referred it to me, it brought up real questions as to his own behavioral sincerity towards me and others. You won’t find this book being promoted openly by too many people who abide by its contents because of the very thing that even brought me to find discomfort with the person who told me about it. For those of you who read it and his other works, I’m sure you’d agree. If you don’t want to talk about it, I got yeah. :zip:

Micro and Macro viewpoints, may each in turn be more accurate than the other.
Building a tunnel from both ends toward the center. Some adjustments required to complete.
Building in opposite directions is just crazy. Maybe even evil.
What is the scientific name for “Fear of Metaphor”?

Mid Atlantic - "Evil just means 'really bad'. ... it’s in our nature to perceive things to be good, evil, etc. and that is what matters."
Yes evil exists in our experience. As humans in relationship to other humans. The counterpoint to good.
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - "Evil exists. That’s not a supernatural precept."
Yes, and what doesn't exist is "supernatural". This is impossible. there can only be 'natural'. But we are still 'Babes in the Woods' when it comes to knowing the scope of that.
Mid Atlantic - "...so called evil behavior is a result of biology, like all behavior is."
But saying this, like using terms such as "sociopathy and psychopathy", just replaces the term "satan" with more modern terminology and reference points. A thousand or ten thousand years from now, it will all make us chuckle. Perhaps, having then completed the previously alluded to tunnel... ... and achieved 'evolutionary superconductivity'. (Just threw that in for fun.)
You’re right, Jack everything has a natural explanation. But it may be impossible to convince people who believe in what they call evil, which they can’t define. It’s like trying to get a person to define god or to understand that it’s a myth. The concepts of Evil and god have a lot in common, they’re easy answers that stand in for rational analysis of what is going on around us.
Advancements in the field of neuroscience have uncovered more evidence of the causes of sociopathy and psychopathy. The problem seems to lie in the underdevelopment of areas in the prefrontal cortex and PET scans on criminals confirm it. Injuries to the brain may also alter personality, creating sociopathic behavior. Most are born without sympathy or remorse, are often thrill seekers and can appear to be normal when they need to but they're only acting a part. There's a lot of research on this and IMO a great place to start is Pinker's book "How the Mind Works". Another good one is Barbara Oakley's "Evil Genes". Both discuss the causes of these abnormalities that our ancestors chalked up to a supernatural evil guy. Well, it made sense then, if there is a good god or goddess it has to be balanced with a bad guy. No human could be THAT evil and thoughtless so it had to be some malevolent outside influence. Besides, it's a lot easier to say "the devil made me do it" than to admit that you have a brain malfunction, and you don't have to do all that boring research when you can read some bronze age tome that explains it all, and it has an escape clause for all the evil you did! Cap't Jack
That's a good concept: escape clause. Evil, Satan, miracles, God, all escapes. Escape from thinking, escape from responsibility, escape from reality. Lois