Your tu quoque logical fallacy aside, you conveniently ignore the fact that Obama extended the Patriot Act when he could have killed it. You also ignore that Bush got Congressional approval before going to war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Obama did not get Congressional approval before going to war in Libya, Yemen and Pakistan, not to mention his deploying Special Ops to 134 countries - compared to 60 under Bush. The Obama Administration also holds the record for the most censoring of government files and outright denying Freedom of Information Act requests. Obama is also worse on Civil Liberties than Bush according to the ACLU. So, nice try, but you and America loses when it comes to Obama.Congress backed the Bush Cheney war in Iraq because they got sold a complete fabrication as we now well know, there was no WMD threat which was the justification. The far right has been running a virtual war against Obama from the start, often in really bizarre ways, it's possible you're getting the monster you helped create.
If it all comes down to the voters then why do Koch Bros. and Soros and Unions pour lots of money into elections? Why would they pour tons of money into politics, including election campaign contributions? If it all comes down to voters then why bother?They bother in an attempt to get out their base to the polls and to sway the undecided voters in an effort to tilt the election the way each side would like. So it's more than just voters? It's money too.
Congress backed the Bush Cheney war in Iraq because they got sold a complete fabrication as we now well know, there was no WMD threat which was the justification.And Obama sold America a complete fabrication about himself and now just ignores Congress and illegally goes to war(s) and changes laws all by himself.
The far right has been running a virtual war against Obama from the start, often in really bizarre ways, it's possible you're getting the monster you helped create.Are you somehow trying to blame others for Obama's horrid behavior in office? I understand your desire to assuage the cognitive dissonance you must feel about Obama's actions being worse than Bush's, but you are not doing yourself (or the U.S.) any favors in making excuses for Obama. Quit blaming the right for Obama. Obama is to blame for Obama.
So it's more than just voters? It's money too.It takes money to eat. It takes money to put clothes on your back. It takes money to go to a movie. What's your point? Are you suggesting that no candidate ever be allowed to spend a penny to print up yard signs or produce a TV or radio spot? The Kochs spent millions yet Obama won two terms and the Senate is controlled by the Democrats. So obviously neither they nor their money "decided" any of those political races as was the crazy conspiracy theory originally stated at the start of this thread. Let them spend their money. Let George Soros spend his money. Why the hell do you care what others spend their money on? People should be free to spend their money as they see fit, even if we disagree with them. Who the hell are you or anyone else to decide how a person lives their life?
So. Someone thinks that our current President is a “nasty fascist” and a “megalomaniac”. I have similar thoughts about ex-President Cheney (via his sock-puppet George W. That regime gave us the Iraq war with its ensuing debilitation that will plague us for years to come, not to mention bringing on the greatest recession in our history).
I think that President Obama has done an exceptionally good job, considering what he has been faced with and has had to work with. In hindsight, could he have done better? Probably, but we don’t get do-overs.
So. Someone thinks that our current President is a "nasty fascist" and a "megalomaniac". I have similar thoughts about ex-President Cheney (via his sock-puppet George W. That regime gave us the Iraq war with its ensuing debilitation that will plague us for years to come, not to mention bringing on the greatest recession in our history). I think that President Obama has done an exceptionally good job, considering what he has been faced with and has had to work with. In hindsight, could he have done better? Probably, but we don't get do-overs.The meaning of some words change over time. “Recession" vs “Depression", I always thought that in a “Recession" there was work, but with the inflation you could not afford to work for the low wages. In a “Depression" there is no work to be found. And there are long bread lines. Would you say we are in a Depression or a Recession today? Maybe a stimulus induced recession that would otherwise be a depression. Anyway with the economic problems America has had, to move ahead with a war against coal and oil and to add thousands of new regulations was a huge mistake. It’s like taking your boat out of the water when you have nothing to eat and should be fishing. This upcoming election and many more afterwards will be a gauge of what the people think of Obama's job.
I would vote for Obama a third time if it were constitutionally viable.Since when has violating the Constitution ever been a problem for Obama? He does it all the time. I wouldn't doubt if the megalomaniac hasn't already floated the idea of him running for a third term. I guess there are still some rights and civil liberties he hasn't violated enough in his first two terms. Please list the things he has done that violate the Constitution--other than not being a natural-born US citizen, of course. Lois
Oh come on, Rocinante. There's no way Obama would desire to run for a third term when it would be far better to have Hillary win the presidency and appoint him to the Supreme Court. :lol:Yes, because some sort of dual family dynasty of the Clintons and Obamas "leading" this country for decades is just what we need. :roll: It was bad enough with two Bushes. Now you want to continue with the Clintons and keep that filthy fascist Obama in a position for life? Getting every Bush, Clinton and Obama out of office as soon as possible would be the best thing for this country. No it wouldn't. It would change nothing. There are worse people waiting in the wings to wreak havoc on the country and the people. Lois
fascism |ˈfa sh ˌizəm| (also Fascism) noun an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. • (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.Quite a hyperbolic statement, explain how this describes Obama.
And Obama sold America a complete fabrication about himself and now just ignores Congress and illegally goes to war(s) and changes laws all by himself.Which wars has Obama started, from what I can see he's been doing everything he could to wrap up the ones started by the last administration. The endless war doctrine wasn't created by Obama, it came from Bush and Cheney who went into places like Iraq and Afghanistan with no exit strategy or seemingly any intent to ever leave. How is that consistent with American principles.
Are you somehow trying to blame others for Obama's horrid behavior in office? I understand your desire to assuage the cognitive dissonance you must feel about Obama's actions being worse than Bush's, but you are not doing yourself (or the U.S.) any favors in making excuses for Obama. Quit blaming the right for Obama. Obama is to blame for Obama.The nation is still there, something that wasn't certain when Obama took office in 2009. It was 8 years of Bush/Cheney that brought the nation to that point. And what support has Obama received from the right besides endless attacks that go far beyond the realm of the norm such as questioning if he was even American, questioning his religion, and totally misrepresenting his politics. Obama isn't a Liberal, and he certainly isn't a socialist, he a right of center Democrat that has gone out of his way to hold together a nation with the deepest divides since the Civil War. And for his efforts some states threatened to Succeed after he was legally re-elected. Is this rational politics or lingering racism directed at America's first black President? From an much more objective perspective I can tell you that as far as world leaders go in this day and age, Obama is good. He's certainly not trying to create the kind of Gotterdamerung that the last Republican administration seemed bent on. Maybe that's the problem the "Rapture me now" wing of the Republican party have with him.
You really think that Clarence Thomas should have recused himself on the Citizens United case due to his links with the Kochs and Citizens Untied itself.
Reports that two Supreme Court Justices have attended seminars sponsored by the energy giant and conservative bankroller Koch Industries has sparked a mild debate over judicial ethics. On Tuesday evening, the New York Times reported that an upcoming meeting in Palm Springs of "a secretive network of Republican donors" that was being organized by Koch Industries, "the longtime underwriter of libertarian causes." Buried in the third to last graph was a note that previous guests at such meetings included Supreme Court Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, two of the more conservative members of the bench.The Koch's legal council Theodore Olson represented Citizens United in front of the Supreme Court and Thomas himself was aided by Citizens Untied in his stormy confirmation when it ran ads attacking Congresspersons who were opposed to Thomas. The Cato Institute and the Institute for Justice also contributed files to the case. Both Thomas and Scalia decided in favor of Citizens United allowing almost unlimited use of the wealth of people like the Kochs to get the politicians of their choice into office. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/20/scalia-thomas-koch-industries_n_769843.html
Clarence Thomas is falling into a deep, deep ethical hole, deeper even than the one he dropped into when he failed to disclose his wife's income for 20 years. As more facts come to light, it's obvious he failed to disclose quite a bit, including the $100,000 Citizens United spent on his behalf in 1991 to support his nomination. That would be an in-kind contribution which should have been disclosed as such.How is this not buying the Justice system by the Kochs?
Please list the things he has done that violate the Constitution...http://lmgtfy.com/?q=list+of+all+violations+of+constitution+by+Obama
That’s not the definition of fascism. This is: fas•cism Pronunciation [fash-iz-uh m] 1. Any system of government in which property is privately owned but industry and labor are regulated by a strong national government. —1992 World Book Dictionary. Ever hear of ObamaCare? Private medicine, regulated by the state. It's the textbook definition! Here are some more examples of Obama’s fascism and his totalitarianism: 1.) The Obama Administration has prosecuted more whistleblowers than all other Presidents COMBINED. 2.) New York Times reporter James Risen called the Obama administration, “The greatest enemy of press freedom that we have encountered in at least a generation." 3.) The Obama Administration withheld information from FOIA requests more than 8,000 times in 2013. 4.) Remember when Obama said this, “But one of the things that I’ll be emphasizing in this meeting is the fact that we are not just going to be waiting for legislation in order to make sure that we’re providing Americans the kind of help that they need. I’ve got a pen and I’ve got a phone." (Despite Obama's delusions of being some sort of king, Congress passes legislation, not the President by fiat!) 5.) The Obama Administration has compiled a hit list of U.S. citizens whom the President has ordered assassinated without any due process.fascism |ˈfa sh ˌizəm| (also Fascism) noun an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. • (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.Quite a hyperbolic statement, explain how this describes Obama.
Which wars has Obama started...• Obama escalated the war in Afghanistan • Obama kept the war going in Iraq nearly twice as long as his 16-months promise • Yemen (without Congressional approval) • Libya (without Congressional approval) • Somalia (without Congressional approval) • Pakistan (without Congressional approval) • The U.S. Taxpayer (OK, on this one he got Congressional approval! :-) ) Please note, Bush got Congressional approval before his wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as the Constitution requires. Add this violation of the Constitution by Obama to all his others!
...That’s not the definition of fascism. This is: fas•cism Pronunciation [fash-iz-uh m] 1. Any system of government in which property is privately owned but industry and labor are regulated by a strong national government. —1992 World Book Dictionary. ...Obama haters, used to call him a Socialist. Some still do. BTW, that definition of fascism could be applied to most modern day industrialized nations. So it seems to me to be a poor definition.
Fascism and socialism aren’t that far apart. In socialism the government owns the property. In fascism property is allegedly still privately owned but the state still tells people what they can and cannot do with the property.
I notice you conveniently ignored all the facts I posted about Obama including the fact that he has bombed more countries than Bush – all without Congressional approval, his horrid record on press freedom, the fact that he has personally changed laws (even though only Congress can do that) and the fact that he has ordered Americans killed without due process!
Yeah, but in socialism, the people own the government. :lol:
Occam
• Obama escalated the war in Afghanistan • Obama kept the war going in Iraq nearly twice as long as his 16-months promise • Yemen (without Congressional approval) • Libya (without Congressional approval) • Somalia (without Congressional approval) • Pakistan (without Congressional approval) • The U.S. Taxpayer (OK, on this one he got Congressional approval! :-) ) Please note, Bush got Congressional approval before his wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as the Constitution requires. Add this violation of the Constitution by Obama to all his others!He brought the US force strength up in Afghanistan to create the conditions to remove them completely by the years end. He got the US out of Iraq, if the Republicans had taken office in 2008 the US would probably be in Iran now too. Obama had US forces go into Pakistan to eliminate bin Laden, something the Bush administration was either unwilling or unable to do in two terms. Obama is cleaning up a Republican mess.
Fascism and socialism aren't that far apart. In socialism the government owns the property. In fascism property is allegedly still privately owned but the state still tells people what they can and cannot do with the property.So you're saying fascism and socialism are basically the same thing. Hmm. I think that what the words "socialist" and "fascist" are actually, for the most part, just pejorative terms, thrown about by persons who want to discredit other persons. The reality is that their are elements of governmental control and government ownership of some property and institutions in all modern industrialized nations. We would all be infinitely worse off if that were not the case.
I notice you conveniently ignored all the facts I posted about Obama...Actually, I checked them out, and considering the circumstances, believe Obama to be pretty much justified in doing what he has done.
. Obama had US forces go into Pakistan to eliminate bin Laden...Actually I was talking about the drone attacks in Pakistan which continued for years after bin Laden was killed and all done without Congressional approval. If Bush or Obama is going to do that, they need to get Congressional approval first. As for the hunt for bin Laden I give credit to Obama, Bush and especially to the Navy SEALS who carried out the raid - something I doubt you would do (giving credit to all involved). The hunt for bin Laden was started by Bush and they just so happened to get their target while Obama was in office.
. something the Bush administration was either unwilling or unable to do in two terms.This is just a borderline variant on 9/11 Trooferism and demonstrates that it is pointless to attempt to have an intelligent discussion with you on the topic.