Liberalism isn't giving rise those issues, they've always been around in a too-big, complex society. Whats happening is liberalism is pedistalizing gender and sexual disorders through misguided compassion - which leads to what amounts to "victim-worship". It will die out soon.Yep but isn't that just all part of an over liberal attitude?Don't know if I'm reading you right; are you asking if gender and sexual disorders stem from liberalism? If so, the answer to that is no. The disorders themselves are caused by a combination of environmental and genetic factors. Liberal society (the current liberal society) then aggravates the disorders at the expense of everybody else. So you don't think many of these claims are nothing more than self-indulgent delusions on the part of some individuals who are really making a cry for help because they are inadequate in some way? How can you really determine whether a person is in the wrong body, after all, we only have their word for it. You wouldn't normally treat a person in other areas of medicine based on a self-diagnosis. What test is their to accomplish this? How to we know gender-reassignment isn't simply a fashion that some 'vulnerable' people have been seduced by in an attempt to find an answer to other problems in their lives? I gather that not every person who undergoes gender-reassignment finds it is the answer, so maybe there are more fundamental issues that they need to address before embarking on such a radical 'solution.' I'm all for a liberal approach as long as it is really going to benefit suffering, however, liberalism is counterproductive if all it does is allow people to act against their best interests. Ever heard of the phrase 'tough love?'Strong agree. There's definitely some big questions about this stuff. I'm just saying the disorders are not caused by liberalism. But where does it say that some men can't have many feminine attributes and some women can't have many male attributes? This has always been the case because we are all a mixture of male and female and the phrase 'getting in touch with one's feminine side' is apposite here since it shows human beings are complex. That does not mean, however, we have to undergo surgery in order to demonstrate our counter-gender feelings. Why do many gay men not choose to undergo gender-reassignment? They are gay but they do not feel the need to change their body to make them feel they are a whole person.I don't know about all that, but, transgendered and homosexual are two different things.
I mean why should we be surprised at all that people who’s professional life started out dedicated to destroying the west are doing so in another form. Part of it is revenge for the end of the USSR and part of it is pure ambition and lust for power. Putin already effectively owns all of Russia, why not go for America as well and in part use Islamic fundamentalists to do it. The KGB used violent groups throughout the world to attack western nations, often training and arming them. I don’t think this ever ended.
Just as significant, Zawahiri’s Russian sojourn occurred at a pivotal point in the development of al-Qa’ida; the shift in strategy, resulting in attacks on the “far enemy" (i.e. the United States), the road leading to 9/11, occurred after Zawahiri’s imprisonment by the Russians. The outline of the story is clear.[4] At about 4 am on December 1, 1996, Zawahiri was detained in southern Russia while attempting to enter Chechnya, the breakaway province of Moscow recently roiled by war. Accompanying the doctor in the van were two other radicals from Egypt and a Chechen guide. The Egyptians, wanted men in their home country and several others, were traveling under aliases; Zawahiri was “Abdullah Imam Mohammed Amin," according to the Sudanese passport he carried, which had stamps from many countries – among them Yemen, Malaysia, Singapore – he had visited in the 20 months before his arrest. Zawahiri’s two Egyptian companions were veteran mujahidin from Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ), the group Zawahiri had been associated with for years and had headed since 1993. Ahmad Salama Mabruk ran EIJ’s activities in Azerbaijan under the cover of a trading firm called Bavari-C, while Mahmud Hisham al-Hennawi had extensive experience on jihad in parts of Asia. The three Arabs were extensively interrogated by the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB), which noted the inmates’ religious fervor, and the surprising support they received from Islamic organizations around the Muslim world. Twenty-six imams signed an appeal for the release of the three “businessmen"; others denounced Russian authorities of doing “the devil’s work" by detaining the hard-praying Muslims. The FSB had ample reason to doubt the Arabs’ cover story. Among the items confiscated from the trio included details about bank accounts in Hong Kong, mainland China, Malaysia, and the U.S. (specifically St. Louis), plus substantial cash in seven currencies. Their laptop computer was seized and subjected to forensic analysis by the FSB. “Mr. Amin," whose Sudanese passport depicted a Western-dressed middle-aged man with a very short beard, arrived in Russia possessing two forged graduation certificates from Cairo University’s medical faculty, with differing dates. FSB investigation of Bavari-C, the EIJ front company in Baku, quickly determined that no such firm existed in Azerbaijan. Radical Muslims in Russia, including one member of the Duma, pleaded for their release, explaining that the Arabs had come to Russia to “study the market for food trade." Various activists from across the region likewise wrote letters on the men’s behalf, claiming they embodied “honesty and decency"; the advocates included leading Arab mujahidin, among them Tharwat Salah Shehata, later head of EIJ. When Shehata got permission to visit “Mr. Amin" in his prison cell, he was given an encrypted letter by the inmate; after the visit, the FSB claimed to have found $3,000 in the cell occupied by the Arabs. When the case finally went to court in April 1997, “Mr. Amin" prayed hard and lied effectively, claiming that he had entered Russia “to find out the price for leather, medicine, and other goods." Rejecting the prosecution’s request for a three-year sentence, the judge gave them six months each; almost immediately they were released, time served. The FSB returned the men their possessions, including the cash, communications gear, and the laptop. After their release, Zawahiri spent ten days clandestinely meeting with Islamists in Dagestan, which presumably had been the original purpose of his trip to the region. Shortly thereafter, he headed for Afghanistan to establish his fateful alliance with bin Laden, which was cemented in the mid-February 1998 announcement of a new partnership between the men and their organizations in a Global Islamic Front for Jihad against Jews and Crusaders. Thus was al-Qa’ida officially born and the path to 9/11 was established. Zawahiri has been tight-lipped about his half-year in Russia; his numerous writings and pronouncements about his life barely mention the tale. “God blinded them to our identities," he explained. The FSB agrees that they failed to identify the leading holy warrior. “In 1997, Russian special services were not aware of al-Zawahiri," elaborated an FSB spokesman in 2003: “However, later, using various databases, we managed to identify this former detainee."[5] There are many reasons to doubt the official story told by both sides in the affair. In the first place, Zawahiri was one of the world’s most wanted terrorists in 1996, having played a leading role in the assassination of President Anwar Sadat in 1981; the doctor’s role in the subsequent public trial was televised in many countries.Like I said the fact that the Russian government has made such an aggressive move against the US lends credence to the view that they have in fact been engaging in covert war with the west and the US at least since the late 1990s.
which leads to what amounts to "victim-worship"."victim-worship" That's funny. It seems to me the new GOP and Trump are the one's who are all about self-victimization-worship. Listen to the delusional garbage being pumped out by the GOP machine. Everybody hates them and everyone else is a perceived enemy. :down:Thats not what I'm talking about, but I'll respond this way - the hate for Trump is intense, and coming from a fairly big segment of society, but he doesn't act like a victim. He's a superstar and he knows it. The GOP might have some names who feel sorry for themselves, probably most don't. What I'm talking about is the liberal tendency to become too compassionate towards marginalized groups at everyone else's expense. It basically amounts to an almost religious veneration of these groups. Another word for it is pathological altruism. And it's as if the liberal elite need to compete with one another to show who occupies the highest 'moral ground.' Maybe they think they stand a better chance of going to Heaven.This is a big thing with young liberals, especially on college campuses. They can never be liberal enough, and it makes them regularly turn on each other, and also take it out on their professors. Its doubtful they're worrying about heaven, but the sentiment is practically religious in nature.
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Can you back you assumption with any facts? I know of nothing that "too much of" brought down any social of political system.What about pornography, promiscuity, families where both parents are working, leading to lack of child rearing, drug addiction, Anorexia nervosa, obesity, cosmetic surgery, unrestricted immigration, lack of strong male roles, rampant advertising, debt, crime, etc? Why did Trump get elected? People had had enough of the liberal elite. The people who voted for Trump knew nothing of the "liberal elite" except that right wingers blame every ill on them. People who voted for Trump wanted to have the kind of life they thought they had on the 50s, good blue collar jobs, a house, a car, two week's vacation, no more crime, everybody loving one another ( except for non-white people who were kept in their place, of course, church on Sunday, prayers in schools. The good old days! They wanted an impossible dream and Trump promised it to them. Lower taxes, good jobs, and end to social programs that encourage lazy people to live off the government, a Republican paradise. THE year's at the spring, And day's at the morn; Morning's at seven; The hill-side's dew-pearl'd; The lark's on the wing; The snail's on the thorn; God's in His heaven— All 's right with the world! Robert Browning, Pippa's Song You can't go home again. And Trump is a fraud.
Liberalism isn't giving rise those issues, they've always been around in a too-big, complex society. Whats happening is liberalism is pedistalizing gender and sexual disorders through misguided compassion - which leads to what amounts to "victim-worship". It will die out soon.Yep but isn't that just all part of an over liberal attitude?Don't know if I'm reading you right; are you asking if gender and sexual disorders stem from liberalism? If so, the answer to that is no. The disorders themselves are caused by a combination of environmental and genetic factors. Liberal society (the current liberal society) then aggravates the disorders at the expense of everybody else. So you don't think many of these claims are nothing more than self-indulgent delusions on the part of some individuals who are really making a cry for help because they are inadequate in some way? How can you really determine whether a person is in the wrong body, after all, we only have their word for it. You wouldn't normally treat a person in other areas of medicine based on a self-diagnosis. What test is their to accomplish this? How to we know gender-reassignment isn't simply a fashion that some 'vulnerable' people have been seduced by in an attempt to find an answer to other problems in their lives? I gather that not every person who undergoes gender-reassignment finds it is the answer, so maybe there are more fundamental issues that they need to address before embarking on such a radical 'solution.' I'm all for a liberal approach as long as it is really going to benefit suffering, however, liberalism is counterproductive if all it does is allow people to act against their best interests. Ever heard of the phrase 'tough love?'Strong agree. There's definitely some big questions about this stuff. I'm just saying the disorders are not caused by liberalism. But where does it say that some men can't have many feminine attributes and some women can't have many male attributes? This has always been the case because we are all a mixture of male and female and the phrase 'getting in touch with one's feminine side' is apposite here since it shows human beings are complex. That does not mean, however, we have to undergo surgery in order to demonstrate our counter-gender feelings. Why do many gay men not choose to undergo gender-reassignment? They are gay but they do not feel the need to change their body to make them feel they are a whole person.I don't know about all that, but, transgendered and homosexual are two different things. In what way?
Liberalism isn't giving rise those issues, they've always been around in a too-big, complex society. Whats happening is liberalism is pedistalizing gender and sexual disorders through misguided compassion - which leads to what amounts to "victim-worship". It will die out soon.Yep but isn't that just all part of an over liberal attitude?Don't know if I'm reading you right; are you asking if gender and sexual disorders stem from liberalism? If so, the answer to that is no. The disorders themselves are caused by a combination of environmental and genetic factors. Liberal society (the current liberal society) then aggravates the disorders at the expense of everybody else. So you don't think many of these claims are nothing more than self-indulgent delusions on the part of some individuals who are really making a cry for help because they are inadequate in some way? How can you really determine whether a person is in the wrong body, after all, we only have their word for it. You wouldn't normally treat a person in other areas of medicine based on a self-diagnosis. What test is their to accomplish this? How to we know gender-reassignment isn't simply a fashion that some 'vulnerable' people have been seduced by in an attempt to find an answer to other problems in their lives? I gather that not every person who undergoes gender-reassignment finds it is the answer, so maybe there are more fundamental issues that they need to address before embarking on such a radical 'solution.' I'm all for a liberal approach as long as it is really going to benefit suffering, however, liberalism is counterproductive if all it does is allow people to act against their best interests. Ever heard of the phrase 'tough love?'Strong agree. There's definitely some big questions about this stuff. I'm just saying the disorders are not caused by liberalism. But where does it say that some men can't have many feminine attributes and some women can't have many male attributes? This has always been the case because we are all a mixture of male and female and the phrase 'getting in touch with one's feminine side' is apposite here since it shows human beings are complex. That does not mean, however, we have to undergo surgery in order to demonstrate our counter-gender feelings. Why do many gay men not choose to undergo gender-reassignment? They are gay but they do not feel the need to change their body to make them feel they are a whole person.I don't know about all that, but, transgendered and homosexual are two different things. In what way?Transgenderism is about gender identity and homosexuality is about sexual orientation. Trans individuals can be any sexual orientation - which makes things even more crazy.
Liberalism isn't giving rise those issues, they've always been around in a too-big, complex society. Whats happening is liberalism is pedistalizing gender and sexual disorders through misguided compassion - which leads to what amounts to "victim-worship". It will die out soon.Yep but isn't that just all part of an over liberal attitude?Don't know if I'm reading you right; are you asking if gender and sexual disorders stem from liberalism? If so, the answer to that is no. The disorders themselves are caused by a combination of environmental and genetic factors. Liberal society (the current liberal society) then aggravates the disorders at the expense of everybody else. So you don't think many of these claims are nothing more than self-indulgent delusions on the part of some individuals who are really making a cry for help because they are inadequate in some way? How can you really determine whether a person is in the wrong body, after all, we only have their word for it. You wouldn't normally treat a person in other areas of medicine based on a self-diagnosis. What test is their to accomplish this? How to we know gender-reassignment isn't simply a fashion that some 'vulnerable' people have been seduced by in an attempt to find an answer to other problems in their lives? I gather that not every person who undergoes gender-reassignment finds it is the answer, so maybe there are more fundamental issues that they need to address before embarking on such a radical 'solution.' I'm all for a liberal approach as long as it is really going to benefit suffering, however, liberalism is counterproductive if all it does is allow people to act against their best interests. Ever heard of the phrase 'tough love?'Strong agree. There's definitely some big questions about this stuff. I'm just saying the disorders are not caused by liberalism. But where does it say that some men can't have many feminine attributes and some women can't have many male attributes? This has always been the case because we are all a mixture of male and female and the phrase 'getting in touch with one's feminine side' is apposite here since it shows human beings are complex. That does not mean, however, we have to undergo surgery in order to demonstrate our counter-gender feelings. Why do many gay men not choose to undergo gender-reassignment? They are gay but they do not feel the need to change their body to make them feel they are a whole person.I don't know about all that, but, transgendered and homosexual are two different things. In what way?Transgenderism is about gender identity and homosexuality is about sexual orientation. Trans individuals can be any sexual orientation - which makes things even more crazy. Ok, but then I'm bound to ask why do people who feel they are transgender? What elements in their way of feeling and interpreting the world cause them to conclude they are in the wrong body? Do they even know? And why does a person who is gay not feel the same way as a transgender? It all seems a bit vague and unsatisfactory to me.
Ok, but then I'm bound to ask why do people who feel they are transgender? What elements in their way of feeling and interpreting the world cause them to conclude they are in the wrong body? Do they even know? And why does a person who is gay not feel the same way as a transgender? It all seems a bit vague and unsatisfactory to me.Hmmm. If only there was some way to get answers to questions. If only there were people who had studied these very questions and asked just what is meant by these words. Wouldn't that be a great world?
Ok, but then I'm bound to ask why do people who feel they are transgender? What elements in their way of feeling and interpreting the world cause them to conclude they are in the wrong body? Do they even know? And why does a person who is gay not feel the same way as a transgender? It all seems a bit vague and unsatisfactory to me.Hmmm. If only there was some way to get answers to questions. If only there were people who had studied these very questions and asked just what is meant by these words. Wouldn't that be a great world? If only.
But where does it say that some men can't have many feminine attributes and some women can't have many male attributes? This has always been the case because we are all a mixture of male and female and the phrase 'getting in touch with one's feminine side' is apposite here since it shows human beings are complex. That does not mean, however, we have to undergo surgery in order to demonstrate our counter-gender feelings. Why do many gay men not choose to undergo gender-reassignment? They are gay but they do not feel the need to change their body to make them feel they are a whole person.I don't know about all that, but, transgendered and homosexual are two different things. In what way?Transgenderism is about gender identity and homosexuality is about sexual orientation. Trans individuals can be any sexual orientation - which makes things even more crazy. Ok, but then I'm bound to ask why do people who feel they are transgender? What elements in their way of feeling and interpreting the world cause them to conclude they are in the wrong body? Do they even know? And why does a person who is gay not feel the same way as a transgender? It all seems a bit vague and unsatisfactory to me.
accidental post above
Ok, but then I'm bound to ask why do people who feel they are transgender? What elements in their way of feeling and interpreting the world cause them to conclude they are in the wrong body? Do they even know? And why does a person who is gay not feel the same way as a transgender? It all seems a bit vague and unsatisfactory to me.Scientists don't know exactly how these disorders develop (transgenderism seems to be a little better understood) but they've figured out quite a bit. It's an interplay of environmental and genetic factors with too many details to list here, but they think a transperson's brain develops typical of one sex while their body develops typical as the other sex.
Broadly generalized arguments against the excesses of “liberalism” or “conservatism” go nowhere.
What is it, specifically, that you are objecting to? Pick one topic and get into the details enough that coherent points can be established and argued over.
“Is Too Much Liberalism a Good Thing?” is so lacking in enough detail that it is of little use as a point of discussion. It is along the lines of short hand, gut level reaction that substitutes for thoughtful debate and introspection frequently today.
This is just more conservative dog whistle, it has nothing to do with facts.
That is entirely what the republican party has become or Trump wouldn’t have been able to hijack it all the way to the White House. And one of shrillest republican dog whistles for years has been how “liberals” are destroying not just America but all of civilization.
Thing like homosexuality and promiscuity as mentioned by the thread starter among other things are supposed to be the result of “too much liberalism”.
Just Google, “Conservative gay bashers caught being gay” to get a grasp of how detached from reality and profoundly hypocritical conservatives have become. Those who condemn others for things they deem immoral are quite often engaging in the same behavior in private. Think Larry Craig bashing gays in Congress then picking up guys in airport bathrooms. There are literally dozens like him.
Modern conservatism is entirely built on people demanding, “do as we say not as we do”. The republicans have become the anti-reality double-standard party and the complete nut job now sitting in the Oval Office is the result.
Don’t blame “liberals” blame yourselves for being so unwilling to accept what it actually means to be human.
I think denial is probably the defining characteristic of conservatives now, they’re no more moral or ethical than the rest of us, they’re just in denial of what it means to be human…which means being imperfect. They demand that we all live up to impossible ideals - often based on religious beliefs - then utterly condemn those who don’t meet their standards. All the while behaving exactly the same in private.
Conservatives aren’t just in denial of how complex human sexuality is, they’re in complete denial of essential issues like climate change that could wipe us all out. Many deny such well established science as evolution and more.
So in the end if accepting the best evidence and the true nature of what it means to be human is what defines “liberals” then how in the hell can conservatives condemn them?
It’s being done not because of how destructive liberalism to the world, it’s being done because of how threatening those who aren’t afraid to face reality are to people who are almost totally in the closet on so many issues.
It would be funny it wasn’t so destructive.
Here’s a little help to get started living in the real world conservatives.
- Climate change is real, it’s caused by us and is very, very serious.
- We actually did evolve from earlier species and are closely related to other great apes and ultimately all life on the planet.
- Lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transsexuals really do exist, they’re not a fantasy created by “liberals”.
- Trump is a psychopath that has no place running America at all.
That’s enough for one day, learning to live in the real world can be taxing… your living in denial is going to kill us all.
The thing that concerns me is that when far right conservatives start talking about the “problems” of liberalism then some of them start wanting to enact a final solution.
But we’d only really need to worry about that here if fascists started showing up in Washington and publicly gave the Nazi salute to their new fuhrer, but what are the chances of that ever happening.
Oh sh…
But then again that could only be a fringe and have no pull with the White House right?
Oh sh… again…
Mr Trump appointed Mr Bannon as campaign CEO in August 2016 and, following his victory, handed him a key White House role. Democrats slammed the appointment. "It is easy to see why the KKK (Ku Klux Klan) views Trump as their champion when Trump appoints one of the foremost peddlers of white supremacist themes and rhetoric as his top aide,'' Adam Jentleson, spokesman for top Senate Democrat Harry Reid, said in a statement. Mr Bannon's appointment was also criticised by civil rights groups, including the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), which campaigns against anti-Semitism, and the Southern Poverty Law Center, a leading advocacy group against hate crimes.Words are used to stimulate action that can and does kill and liberals make easy targets because their whole focus is drawing attention to issues that concern them to make a more equal and just society. If you're a fascist that is the last thing you want, which is why when fascists take over liberals end up keeping their heads down or in cages or even gas chambers. These extremists aren't fooling around, watch the video of the nazis in Washington and how fired up they get when their leader starts talking about a "peaceful" ethnic cleansing. There is no such thing and Trump has already tried to pass restrictions on people based on religion that courts have struck down. We live in scary times and this is across the world, something that Bannon at Breitbart helped make happen by working with white supremacist groups across North America and Europe.
Broadly generalized arguments against the excesses of "liberalism" or "conservatism" go nowhere. What is it, specifically, that you are objecting to? Pick one topic and get into the details enough that coherent points can be established and argued over. "Is Too Much Liberalism a Good Thing?" is so lacking in enough detail that it is of little use as a point of discussion. It is along the lines of short hand, gut level reaction that substitutes for thoughtful debate and introspection frequently today.It's obvious OP is talking about transgenderism.
Conservatives aren't just in denial of how complex human sexuality is,Truncated because its thread relevant unlike most of your posts -- Not quite. Human sexuality is fairly simple when its healthy. When its disordered it becomes complex