In God We Trust

Religion and Secularism
#1

Ugggggh…

An Indiana bill would require “In God We Trust” to be posted in every classroom and school library in Indiana. The law would include Charter Schools as well.

If you reside in Indiana, please contact your Senator to oppose SB 131.

Which God??? Allah, Shiva, Krishna, Yahweh, Ahura Mazda, Buddha…?‍♀️

https://www.wthr.com/article/bill-would-require-god-we-trust-posted-every-indiana-classroom

( Sent from WTHR )

If we trust in God, why are their packed healthcare facilities? Obviously, prayers are Not being answered. Prayer is like chronic gambling, you never count your losses.

#2

I wonder if we’re going to do away with the Establishment clause altogether. They’re wittling away at the Constitution pretty heavy lately.

#3

It’s on all of my cash.

Maybe it is designed to condition us to feel good when we hear or read the words “In God We Trust”. After all, money is the ultimate generalized positive reinforcer.

So the prosperity doctrine of the Evangelicals… I can see the followers of the doctrine, going about, while an unconscious mantra keeps repeating in their heads, “In God we trust - Money - In God we trust - Money - …”

__

Last month, Pence called for the Prosperity “cults” (my word) to get another 4 yrs for T rump so that their dreams would be assured. (paraphrased)

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/12/pence-tells-evangelicals-pray-four-years-want-get-rich/

#4

I had an idea. Post “In God We Trust” signs in the most disgusting situations that are frequented by the public.

For example: Post it twice, inside of all porta potties in warm or hot locales, that have lines of people waiting to use them. Post one “In God We Trust” sign, so that it is directly across from someone sitting; and the other sign so that it is directly in front of someone standing (to use the toilet receptacle).

 

 

 

#5

I just don’t know the results. Would people come to be averse to the statement “In God We Trust”? Or would they come to like money less? Or would they begin to like going to hot, overused, porta potties?

 

#6

Frankly, I’m insulted by the implied message; “it’s gonna get worse folks, but not to worry, your Lord and Saviour will provide”

This is not comforting at all, it is very worrysome. This is not a good direction for a free democracy.

It smacks of the old message “Arbeit macht frei”, hanging at the gates of the Nazi concentration camps.

Lets not forget, today at the border, we have clear examples of how easy it is to become classified as an animal.

 

 

#7

This so frustrating!

Whatever happened to “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble; and to petition the government for a redress of grievances” ?

Do you suppose anyone would notice if the sign was changed to “In Dogs We Thrust”?

#8

Dyslexic atheists might be offended if it were changed to “In Dog We Trust”.

But yeah, how did it get on our money in the 1st place? That seems unconstitutional to me.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion….” Yet, I assume there is a law somewhere that directs that “In God We Trust” be etched on to every piece of money that we have. Therefore, Congress must have done what the Constitution said not to do.

#9
Blaire said,

Whatever happened to “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, …


The keyword here is “establishment” of religion.

You realize this is a two way street, yes? The Establishment Clause forbids both government and religions from installing religious themes in public places, such as schools.

This was settled during the Kitzmiller trial, when Intelligent Design proponents tried to introduce a religious book into the school’s scientific curriculum. The court held that this was not a scientific subject and would therefore infringe on the Establishment Clause.

There are no laws against teaching religious themes as long as they do not infringe on the Establishment Clause which protects all belief systems equally and therefore forbids the establishment of any religion or specific non-secular belief system.

What are secular beliefs?

The main "belief", if you like, of secularism is that all religions are equal and that moral, logical, reasonable judgments and opinions made in the interest of law should not be affected by religious doctrine but by the morality, logic and reason of those involved in the decision. The main purpose for having a country, state, society, etc. as being secular is that nobody can be persecuted for their beliefs or their belief system. It is a fairer system that is nearly always abused
https://www.answers.com/Q/What_are_secular_beliefs
#10

But that does not, to me, explain how our govt is compliant with the “establishment” clause when the words “In God We Trust” is on every piece of USA cash that there is.

My atheism, which per the establishment clause is covered, just as any religion, is being discriminated against by having the government support the existence of a supernatural deity on EVERY piece of cash. Coins and paper money alike. It literally must be billions of individual statements of “In God We Trust”. My govt is favoring all of the religions that have a “god”. Can the govt put it on our credit cards and checks, too? If atheists ever gained political power, could we change “In God We Trust” to “Ain’t No Such Thing As God” on all the money? Or would that be proscribed by the Constitution?

#11
TimB said,

But that does not, to me, explain how our govt is compliant with the “establishment” clause when the words “In God We Trust” is on every piece of USA cash that there is.


Yes, its remarkable. I believe they are leftovers from the olden days when everyone was religious and this assurance was to instill confidence into the concept of government sponsored “promisory notes”, which were once exchangeable into gold, but as the value of gold was dependent on the market, it was a inherently unstable system.

FDR takes United States off gold standard

On June 5, 1933, the United States went off the gold standard, a monetary system in which currency is backed by gold, when Congress enacted a joint resolution nullifying the right of creditors to demand payment in gold. The United States had been on a gold standard since 1879, except for an embargo on gold exports during World War I, but bank failures during the Great Depression of the 1930s frightened the public into hoarding gold, making the policy untenable.
So instead it became an promissory honor system and money was only a means of exchange and did in and of itself have no value other than as a promissory note.
In 1934, the government price of gold was increased to $35 per ounce, effectively increasing the gold on the Federal Reserve’s balance sheets by 69 percent. This increase in assets allowed the Federal Reserve to further inflate the money supply.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/fdr-takes-united-states-off-gold-standard

What it should really say; “In Government we Trust”, but of course that would be a lie.

Trust the people who’s service are paid by your taxes and then assign themselves privileges, such as health insurance? Should such a privilege not then also be guaranteed to all taxpayers?

IMO, that would have immediate drastic impact on the economy. For one, it would force government to negotiate for the lowest possible prices by competittive bid and assign all services to one single non-profit “health care accounting system”, also known as a “single payer healthcare system” , or “Medicare for All”, which IMO, might deserve the logo… “In Government we Trust”.

#12

On money, it would be more to the point to say “In Money We Trust”. Although that might prompt some people to think “do we really?” and the world economy could come unhinged.

#13

There are a myriad of things that we do trust the government for, despite our general inclination of not trusting the government about a lot of things.

#14

“In God we trust” on government issued means of exchange is unconstitutional. In fact it removes responsibility from the government.

“Pete gave this to me, but trust Jake to make good on it.” IMO, that the mark of a con game… :slight_smile:

#15

You know what type of person needs constant confirmation that their beliefs are really, really real? People who doubt those beliefs.

#16
Blaire: Do you suppose anyone would notice if the sign was changed to “In Dogs We Thrust”?
Yes, one would. Just as the burning and desecration of the US Flag in a public place anywhere in America to vent your resentment would draw attention.

“In God We Trust” is a historic relic now with no religious significance.

 

#17

I agree and propose to have it removed from US currency. It’s also unconstitutional under the Establishment clause, IMO

#18

You propose to remove American symbols of historical interest? What is the motivation, Write4U? Mao Zedong’s cultural revolution ripped out every form of religious artifacts from China and killed millions of people in the process. He cleared the way for the phenomenal advancement of his people from third world to first within a generation. You have a similar ambition for Americans?

#19

Sree, your hyper-bole could use a dose of Ritalin. Taking the statement “In God We Trust” off of government issued money, is not equivalent to “ripping out every form of religious artifacts” and “killing millions of people”. Nope, not the same thing at all. But that should be obvious to a rational person. Are you a rational person?

 

 

#20
Sree said,

You propose to remove American symbols of historical interest?


Place a few specimen in a museum. That’s what we do with relics of historical interest.

Instead we erect Young Earth museums that show people living together with dinosaurs because “In God we Trust”. Any historical value in that?