Hi. I saw a bumper sticker today and I want to understand more. I am TOTALLY against any form of organized religion so ok have that going for me here but I do believe that our energy’s lasts beyond the death of the physical body. Is there a God? Im not sure. I really think that there is a place or did mention we go to after death. So I guess what I am asking is…is there a place here for me? Do other people here believe what I believe? I hope so because id reallylove to talk about it.
Welcome littledreamer,
ON CFI there are several viewpoints represented about the “wholeness” of the universe, so you’d probably fit right in. Your refutal of organized fundamentalist religion is a great start exploring the structure of the Universe and it’s properties.
But imagine the 1920 and you have a racecar which has set every speed record imaginable. The energy of the motor was was the soul of the car and unequalled by all, but used a lot of gasoline. During a race in the desert, the racecar ran out of gas and stopped. The driver was picked up by a passerby and got home safe. But the next day there was an enormous sand storm, so severe, it moved whole sand dunes and changed the landscape.
When the driver went back to find his car, nothing was to be found and eventually the rich owner gave up and went back home, sans his precious race car.
Nearly a century later, they finally discovered the car, still half buried. Not much was left, a rusty frame, rotted and worm infested wood and cloth, engine completely unusable and beyond repair with original parts.
Of all the creatures on earth, man has developed the most sophisticated brain capable of flight like a bird. But it requires energy, just like that engine. If it cannot receive that energy, it will die and in a century only a few bones and teeth may be left. Our soul that made us fly is long gone.
But if you want to study why there is a commonality between people having the same goals and dreams (the same soul), I would recommend starting with the “mirror neural network” of the brain. It is the part that makes all people aspire to be “someone of worth”. And IMO, this is the root cause for religion and the concept of soul. When we look into the mirror we only see reflections of ourselves.
Hi. I saw a bumper sticker today and I want to understand more. I am TOTALLY against any form of organized religion so ok have that going for me here but I do believe that our energy's lasts beyond the death of the physical body. Is there a God? Im not sure. I really think that there is a place or did mention we go to after death. So I guess what I am asking is...is there a place here for me? Do other people here believe what I believe? I hope so because id reallylove to talk about it.Sure we have all kinds on this forum. It's not much that I don't believe in an afterlife, it's just that worrying about it doesn't take up too much of my time. I focus on the here an now. If, after I die, there turns out to be a whole other existence, that would be great. One question, though, what kind of afterlife do you imagine?
With a handle like “littledreamer” you’ve already managed to perk some interest,
bet I’m not the only one curious what you might have to share.
Unlike a few other forums I’m familiar with, where wiseass one liners seems to be the height of achievement,
folks around here actually think about what others share and if it’s interesting enough actually discuss your ideas with you.
Not that it’s always a free easy ride… but than what fun would that be. 
Welcome, looking forward to hearing from you.
Hi. I saw a bumper sticker today and I want to understand more. I am TOTALLY against any form of organized religion so ok have that going for me here but I do believe that our energy's lasts beyond the death of the physical body. Is there a God? Im not sure. I really think that there is a place or did mention we go to after death. So I guess what I am asking is...is there a place here for me? Do other people here believe what I believe? I hope so because id reallylove to talk about it.There is always a place here for those looking for truth, clarity, perspective, support and epistemologically solid ways of understanding the world, ourselves and wonder.
Advocates, thanks for your reply. I had to put something for a handle and littledreamer is from the Van Halen song of the same name. Why that? Because of what happens while im sleeping. My standard disclaimer: I dont claim to be psychic and dont believe I have special powers of any kind. That being said, I will tell you that I have visited with many people close to me that have passed away. I dont wish for this to happen and its not like I miss them or anything like that. I cant help but think that our souls move on, not in a heaven where “God” sits on a throne but perhaps another dimension.
I look at the world around me in wonder and amazement but cant help but think that there is more out there than what we can experience with our five senses. Ive recorded most of my other worldly experiences in writing in hopes to one day write a book, as soon as I find a writer who will help me do that.
Ive read al all the responses here and you all seem so well educated and intellectual and I fear I may be way over my head in that department but I love this site and plan on hanging in here for awhile. And if you know any writers I could sure use some help!
Advocates, thanks for your reply. I had to put something for a handle and littledreamer is from the Van Halen song of the same name. Why that? Because of what happens while im sleeping. My standard disclaimer: I dont claim to be psychic and dont believe I have special powers of any kind. That being said, I will tell you that I have visited with many people close to me that have passed away. I dont wish for this to happen and its not like I miss them or anything like that. I cant help but think that our souls move on, not in a heaven where "God" sits on a throne but perhaps another dimension. I look at the world around me in wonder and amazement but cant help but think that there is more out there than what we can experience with our five senses. Ive recorded most of my other worldly experiences in writing in hopes to one day write a book, as soon as I find a writer who will help me do that. Ive read al all the responses here and you all seem so well educated and intellectual and I fear I may be way over my head in that department but I love this site and plan on hanging in here for awhile. And if you know any writers I could sure use some help!I suggest you apply these rules to your idea that "there is more out there than what we can experience with our five senses." it's ok to dream and wish and hope, but you should be aware of what is likely, unlikely or impossible and keep your ideas in perspectve Critical Thinking rules in Science 1. Is it falsifiable? For any explanation to be considered science, it must be falsifiable. It must be possible to obtain some evidence that would falsify the claim. This is what makes science science, and why most significantly evidence matters. 2. Is it logical? All conclusions or predictions drawn from an explanation must logically follow. This is important because explanations are tested by evaluating such predictions. 3. Is it comprehensive? Does the explanation account for all of the available evidence? If not, then how can it possibly be true? This means you cannot pick and choose among the available evidence and select only those items that support your explanation. To be a viable alternative explanation, all the available evidence must be explained. 4. Has everyone been honest? Anybody offering an explanation has an obligation to weigh all the evidence and reach a rational conclusion. You always must be on guard of self-deception, and you must be willing to abandon any explanation if the evidence contradicts it. Science makes progress when falsified explanations are abandoned and replacing them with new explanations. 5. Is it replicable? Any evidence offered in support of an explanation must be capable of being obtained independently and confirmed by someone else. If something repeatedly cannot be confirmed independently, then the original evidence becomes suspect, and so does the explanation it supported. 6. Is it sufficient? Is the evidence offered sufficient to support the truth of the explanation? The belief we place in an explanation must remain proportionate to the amount of credible evidence that has been accumulated in its support. Remember the burden of proof rests on the person putting forth the explanation, and the more extraordinary the claim, the more solid the evidence required to support it. Further the absence of falsifying evidence is not the same as the presence of evidence that confirms a claim or explanation. Conclusion If an explanation or claim passes on all six rules, then you are justified in considering it to be true. Of course, this does not provide a guarantee of truth, but it means you have a good basis for supporting the explanation. If an explanation fails one of the six rules, then it should be rejected or at least treated with great skepticism. If you follow these six rules you will be a skeptical thinker, supporting or accepting an explanation only when the evidence warrants it. These rules are one of the reasons reports in science are subjected to peer reviews prior to publication to guard against making exactly such mistakes. After J. Lett. 1990. A field guide to critical thinking. Skeptical Inquirer 14(2): 153-160. Lois
... I cant help but think that our souls move on, not in a heaven where "God" sits on a throne but perhaps another dimension. I look at the world around me in wonder and amazement but cant help but think that there is more out there than what we can experience with our five senses...The five senses (seven if you count vestibular and proprioceptive systems) are products of our physical makeup. If what you are calling a "soul" is anything more than a concept, (which I firmly doubt) I don't see how it could have any sensory input (or any existence, for that matter) without the benefit of the physical body. But you are correct, I think, re: the limits of our sensory capacities. I also firmly believe that there is more, in our physical universe than we can experience with our senses. For instance we know of many examples of other creatures having different capacities with their senses than we do. Also, for example, it may even be that migratory creatures have some sense detection of the Earth's magnetic field. And beyond this, there is much that we can only perceive of our physical universe through technological amplification. And beyond this, there may be aspects of our physical universe that we (or any other biological creature) have no way of sensing at all. But are there disembodied "souls" that have some connection to a formerly living host, existing in some dimension that we have no confirmable, way of detecting? They used to say that the moon was made of green cheese. (I don't know why. It never looked green to me.) But you don't hear that saying anymore, since we've been there and detected no evidence of any kind of cheese. So far, the evidence that I am aware of suggests "souls" are simply a mental construct. IOW, IMO, until confirmable evidence suggests otherwise, there are no such thing as "souls" beyond our concept of them. If you have had "contact" with the formerly living, I suspect that it was in a dream or hypnagogic state. And thus it was a fabrication of the way our brains can sometimes work.
... I cant help but think that our souls move on, not in a heaven where "God" sits on a throne but perhaps another dimension. I look at the world around me in wonder and amazement but cant help but think that there is more out there than what we can experience with our five senses...The five senses (seven if you count vestibular and proprioceptive systems) are products of our physical makeup. If what you are calling a "soul" is anything more than a concept, (which I firmly doubt) I don't see how it could have any sensory input (or any existence, for that matter) without the benefit of the physical body. But you are correct, I think, re: the limits of our sensory capacities. I also firmly believe that there is more, in our physical universe than we can experience with our senses. For instance we know of many examples of other creatures having different capacities with their senses than we do. Also, for example, it may even be that migratory creatures have some sense detection of the Earth's magnetic field. And beyond this, there is much that we can only perceive of our physical universe through technological amplification. And beyond this, there may be aspects of our physical universe that we (or any other biological creature) have no way of sensing at all. But are there disembodied "souls" that have some connection to a formerly living host, existing in some dimension that we have no confirmable, way of detecting? They used to say that the moon was made of green cheese. (I don't know why. It never looked green to me.) But you don't hear that saying anymore, since we've been there and detected no evidence of any kind of cheese. So far, the evidence that I am aware of suggests "souls" are simply a mental construct. IOW, IMO, until confirmable evidence suggests otherwise, there are no such thing as "souls" beyond our concept of them. If you have had "contact" with the formerly living, I suspect that it was in a dream or hypnagogic state. And thus it was a fabrication of the way our brains can sometimes work. There are limits to our sensory capacities, but we are wrong to make assumptions about things we can't detect through our known senses. All ideas should still be analyzed and tested. To assume that there is something or someone trying to communicate with us because there are "limits to our senses" is getting into dangerous territory. We know our mind can play tricks on us. By the way, the green cheese they talk about the moon being made of was not literally green. Green cheese is simply unripe cheese--cheese that hasn't been aged. I guess the moon looked like unripe cheese to some people because unaged cheese is whiter than aged cheese and it was often put in a round mold. Lois
...the green cheese they talk about the moon being made of was not literally green. Green cheese is simply unripe cheese--cheese that hasn't been aged. I guess the moon looked like unripe cheese to some people because unaged cheese is whiter than aged cheese and it was often put in a round mold. LoisGood to know. I never thought to ask about that.
I have a suspicion that many people have a sense of “gestalt” (soul/ self-awareness), but don’t realize that the gestalt is a “product of the brain”. When the brain dies the gestalt (soul) dies with it, but…there are memories ( posterity) of remarkable people or deeds which tend to persist in the mirror neural network of others and become part of culture and are often held up as constants or universal truths. Holism is one such model.
Quantum cognition modeling[edit] Main article: Quantum cognition#Modeling of Gestalt perception Similarities between Gestalt phenomena and quantum mechanics have been pointed out by, among others, chemist Anton Amann, who commented that "similarities between Gestalt perception and quantum mechanics are on a level of a parable" yet may give useful insight nonetheless. Physicist Elio Conte and co-workers have proposed abstract, mathematical models to describe the time dynamics of cognitive associations with mathematical tools borrowed from quantum mechanics[20][21] and has discussed psychology experiments in this context. A similar approach has been suggested by physicists David Bohm, Basil Hiley and philosopher Paavo Pylkkänen with the notion that mind and matter both emerge from an "implicate order".[22][23] The models involve non-commutative mathematics; such models account for situations in which the outcome of two measurements performed one after the other can depend on the order in which they are performed—a pertinent feature for psychological processes, as it is obvious that an experiment performed on a conscious person may influence the outcome of a subsequent experiment by changing the state of mind of that person.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestalt_psychology
I have a suspicion that many people have a sense of "gestalt" (soul/ self-awareness), but don't realize that the gestalt is a "product of the brain". When the brain dies the gestalt (soul) dies with it, but............there are memories ( posterity) of remarkable people or deeds which tend to persist in the mirror neural network of others and become part of culture and are often held up as constants or universal truths. Holism is one such model.In regular person language, I would say, that although others die and are dead and gone, our (those of us still living) conceptions of them, can continue to have an impact.Quantum cognition modeling[edit] Main article: Quantum cognition#Modeling of Gestalt perception Similarities between Gestalt phenomena and quantum mechanics have been pointed out by, among others, chemist Anton Amann, who commented that "similarities between Gestalt perception and quantum mechanics are on a level of a parable" yet may give useful insight nonetheless. Physicist Elio Conte and co-workers have proposed abstract, mathematical models to describe the time dynamics of cognitive associations with mathematical tools borrowed from quantum mechanics[20][21] and has discussed psychology experiments in this context. A similar approach has been suggested by physicists David Bohm, Basil Hiley and philosopher Paavo Pylkkänen with the notion that mind and matter both emerge from an "implicate order".[22][23] The models involve non-commutative mathematics; such models account for situations in which the outcome of two measurements performed one after the other can depend on the order in which they are performed—a pertinent feature for psychological processes, as it is obvious that an experiment performed on a conscious person may influence the outcome of a subsequent experiment by changing the state of mind of that person.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestalt_psychology
I have a suspicion that many people have a sense of "gestalt" (soul/ self-awareness), but don't realize that the gestalt is a "product of the brain". When the brain dies the gestalt (soul) dies with it, but............there are memories ( posterity) of remarkable people or deeds which tend to persist in the mirror neural network of others and become part of culture and are often held up as constants or universal truths. Holism is one such model.In regular person language, I would say, that although others die and are dead and gone, our (those of us still living) conceptions of them, can continue to have an impact. Absolutely, prophets/martyrs of a god or deity have left "gestalts". A shared psychological mind-set on which most biblical mythology (religion) is based. Another term used on this subject is "meme", I believe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MemeQuantum cognition modeling[edit] Main article: Quantum cognition#Modeling of Gestalt perception Similarities between Gestalt phenomena and quantum mechanics have been pointed out by, among others, chemist Anton Amann, who commented that "similarities between Gestalt perception and quantum mechanics are on a level of a parable" yet may give useful insight nonetheless. Physicist Elio Conte and co-workers have proposed abstract, mathematical models to describe the time dynamics of cognitive associations with mathematical tools borrowed from quantum mechanics[20][21] and has discussed psychology experiments in this context. A similar approach has been suggested by physicists David Bohm, Basil Hiley and philosopher Paavo Pylkkänen with the notion that mind and matter both emerge from an "implicate order".[22][23] The models involve non-commutative mathematics; such models account for situations in which the outcome of two measurements performed one after the other can depend on the order in which they are performed—a pertinent feature for psychological processes, as it is obvious that an experiment performed on a conscious person may influence the outcome of a subsequent experiment by changing the state of mind of that person.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestalt_psychology
Pseudo-scientific psychological mumbo jumbo (e.g. “gestalt”) has its place, and the term “meme” is interesting as a proposed cultural element analogous to a gene (in passing on cultural behavior), but in my opinion, such jargon can often obfuscate understanding that could be more easily accomplished if we just think and communicate plainly.
We are not going to find a meme (or a concept for that matter) under a microscope or even in a fancy MRI kind of device, any time soon. So I think it best to just think of memes as a (theoretical) special kind of concept. And since I view “conceptualizing” as a particular kind of behavior, my (educated) bias is to consider such things in behavioral terms. (Behavior being more subject to observation and more readily subject to analysis - although, admittedly, conceptualizing is a covert behavior.)
But, in terms of this discussion, let’s say, a conceptualization of a departed loved one (not to mention the history of reinforcement/punishment with that loved one), will continue to have an impact on the surviving person’s thoughts, feelings, and other behavior. (I don’t think that would fit as a “meme” as it is not so much cultural as personal.)
Also, I am not discounting your point, W4U, re: conceptualizations (of departed individuals) that seem to become shared amongst the masses. I am just suggesting that it is better to think and communicate about it more plainly. But, as I say, that is my bias. And what I think that I am communicating more plainly, may or may not be more easily understood by others.