I think I might be over my issue

General Discussion
141

Seems to me that can only happen if he wants to make the effort.

Could also be he’s trapped in an interpersonal rut, that others are helping keep him strapped into sort of pavlovian, action, reaction, dog-chasing-tail situations.

Historically outsiders, who survive, do so by breaking free of their tribe and home, traveling over that horizon, to a new place, new people, new circumstances, but that isn’t near as easy as it used to be.

Used to be a seasonal job in a National Parks and such was as easy as getting there, and being willing to show up on time and ready to do the work. I’m sure it’s no where that straightforward these days.

But one needs to know themselves, to face one’s demons and realize you can over-come them, or at least be striving to know who you are and finding security in that awareness.

I believe one important aspect of that is to be consciously aware of the interior reality of one’s own body. It really does help tap into and influence (manage) those under-currents of energy and behavioral cues/reactions that pulse through our bodies. Things like better understand the biological roots of one impulses, offers personal tool for modifying those behaviors.

It’s a pragmatic approach, rather than an idealistic one.
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142

They don’t really help much because what they know is really out of date. You can’t just walk in and ask for the manager and introduce yourself, that tends to lead to you not getting the job.

That never comes up. They ask about prior experience and that’s really it. It’s just boilerplate questions.

I’ve told you this isn’t true. But more than that effort doesn’t guarantee results. In fact my whole life has been a lesson that the effort I put in doesn’t really change anything and it’s only when other people get involved that anything works out for me.

143

Hmmm. Maybe they are seeing something and not telling you. Or maybe someone told you, and you argued.

144

I think this is getting off topic from the main point.

I went to another one of their classes today and I’m not sure what to make of it. There seems to be too much of a premium placed on personal experience.

I tried to get them to understand that what they thought of as “mind, heart, and self” is really just brain, or mental processes. That consciousness is a product of our brains (I know this because I was knocked out one time for a procedure, it was essentially blinking and missing it).

I tried to get it across that a lot of what they are talking about is philosophy. The trust in our senses is philosophy, it’s an assumption we make. They cited an example of seeing someone in pain because you stepped on their foot and no matter what I said I couldn’t get them to understand that that is also philosophy too, the problem of other minds. They couldn’t see how many assumptions they made in their evaluation of their personal experience.

They also mentioned something about how “awareness” doesn’t change and how it’s your real self. I tried to talk about how awareness does change, because what you are aware of also changes and that awareness can change with drugs and junk. Then it was about how that stuff you’re aware of changes but awareness doesn’t and I said that’s pretty much the same thing. Take away all sensation and you take away awareness. I didn’t even bring up that what we call awareness is really just our brain’s best guess of what’s going on around us and how it makes predictions. But even the notion that “you are awareness and that is the self” is still philosophy and a belief.

In short it ended up nowhere because any serious exploration of that stuff just got dismissed as beliefs and they tried to bring it back to what I feel and my experience and I tried to explain that the stuff I use to make that call is learned from things around me.

It was a dead end but I did get the line of “science is wrong before”. It just seems like they don’t know they’re doing philosophy and other stuff. This whole “mind, heart, self” is just thoughts and beliefs. But there wasn’t anyway to talk about it because it just got dismissed as beliefs and mind (which is ironic). They kept drawing it to my experience and saying “no one is the authority on reality” which to me just sounds close-minded. What? No one is 100% certain so all things are equal? That’s not how that works.

More than that it got to the “nothing makes us feel” and the phrase felt more like the “you can’t help someone who won’t help themselves” in the sense that they say it triggers something inside you. So it’s like saying what he said didn’t mess me up and neither did Buddhism but that it triggered something inside me, which I have to ask…how do they know? I asked them what could it be triggering since it’s fairly obvious I’m struggling with what I read, they said that’s for me to figure out. But if I knew that I wouldn’t asked. I know that the same thing affects everyone differently but it’s still THE thing doing it right? That’s what happened with me when I read Buddhism and struggled with what it talked about, not because it awoke some secret trauma or something.

I dunno man, it just seems the more I try the more I get shut down because they won’t listen, they try to frame it in their view.

145

If they see something from me just saying I have retail experience and open availability then they really are reading a lot into it. There was literally 0 arguing through the whole thing, I just answered their questions best I could.

146

That is literally their job, to figure out if you are a fit for the team. If they only ask about the physical aspects of the job, then they are bad interviewers. Which I doubt.

147

That is literally all they do. I think you are giving them more credit than they deserve. They are asking questions that don’t really merit reading much into it.

But this is beside the point and away from the main topic, what about what I said before that?

148

No. You only told me that you just don’t get it, and then you turn on your obtuse superior attitude.

From what you write, you haven’t gathered enough experience to be in a position to judge with such certainty.

Seems to me you do plenty of “won’t listen” yourself. Too busy dismissing. Heck seems sometimes, trying to track your words, sounds like you’ve dismissed both Mind and Body, so what are you left with trying to figure out?

149

I have a nephew who uses those exact words. He’s very frustrated. Causing his own grief in my opinion.

150

No it’s not true in that there is no such thing as “undercurrents of energy” that’s like that woo stuff my mom tried with me when I was younger and it never works. The stuff you can be aware of like heartrate you can’t do much about, the interior reality isn’t something you can be aware of.

You never really say anything that is relevant so I’m not sure your position is much better.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at. I dismiss their notion of mind/heart and soul because these just sound like mental exercises than things that exist. But trying to talk to them for details just draws it back to saying “these are beliefs” and to “turn to your own experience” which doesn’t explain anything.

They even said you aren’t the heart or the mind but the observer behind them (which just sounds like mind but there was no getting anywhere there), to which I say if that’s the case why care about either one. Their response was avoiding that conclusion.

151

Do you have cahones’ ?
Have you never felt hormones surging through your body?
Has a natural or manmade setting ever filled you with awe and wonder?

Simply saying that stuff isn’t real, simply doesn’t cut it.

Actually I do, considering it echoes throughout current biological/neurological advances, can’t help it if philosophers haven’t managed to catch up and substantively absorb modern scientific content and implications.

Before dismissing it, you ought to at least read what I write.
What’s this mind/heart and soul???

I write something that sounds more like this:

interacting with environment via Body/Brain produces Mind.

"Heart’ and "Soul’ are metaphorical terms.
There is a distinction.

What about the notion that fundamentally you and I are simply another evolved biological creature, read animal?

Can you process that?

Now you’re back to talking about questionable notions of others. Looks like a dead-end.

Oh, and of course, you are the observer, you are also the doer that caused things to be done to you. We are another animal, that’s confined to the physical plane. No matter where one’s imagination might take one, we need to make peace with that, if we want to move forward with our life.

152

Well I would say I’m used to it but I’m not, it’s the story of my life.

Everytime I want to share something with people I never get acknowledged or anything like that so I just stay quiet. Apparently conversation isn’t just going up and talking or waiting for the right time, you gotta have that something.

153

Yeah, so, maybe it’s something about you. Worth considering.

I’m not trying to put you in your place or say there is something wrong with you. Everything about you argues for yourself, declares that you can do what you desire. Turn that energy from arguing with others and use it to take what they say and improve yourself. Unless you think there is no room for improvement.

154

Well I’m still bugged by the guy telling me that none of this stuff is really messing me up, because if it did it would do that for everyone. I’m not sure about that but in some sense it is true.

My history of all this stuff is mostly just a history or weakness. I was “rewarded” for being weak and needing help so there was no reason for me to improve. I always had an excuse to not do something or why I can’t, and I often hid behind problem philosophies to do that. Solipsism, Buddhism, nihilism, anti-natalism, I can’t live life because of fundamental nature of X because of this philosophy. Even this was no different, I already knew I thought he was nonsense when I read his stuff. But in keeping myself weak and needly I could garner attention and validation.

155

Okay there you go.
Sounds like you’ve achieved your goal?
No need to worry about changing if it’s working for you?

156

Sarcasm. Doesn’t always come across in the written word

157

Well I know it’s not working, because it limits me. It’s more a plan to avoid pain and failure, but it’s not a good one. If I never try or develop myself then I’ll keep getting swept up in everyone else’s stuff they want to put in my head.

158

That’s a funny line from a bad movie, The Grey Wolfe

159

Never seen it but I wouldn’t doubt it.

It’s a weakness I knew about but never admitted because it would clash with how I see myself. I would have to admit I’m not a good person and drop the rationalizations.

Unrelated but the more I talk to the dude, Gary, the less I’m sure he knows what he’s talking about and that he’s just some guy. Always an excuse to not answer my questions and invoking “civility politics” in a sense.

160

How many times have you said that here?