I question if there is such as thing as former atheists

Exactly, we have discovered many of the mysteries of the past that are now considered axiomatic. There are some mysteries remaining but if these remaining mysteries are of a mathematical nature, there should be no reason why those mysteries cannot also be solved.

The mystery of an Intelligent God can never be solved, because it never existed.
It is a product of man’s imagination resulting in an “unknowable” irreducible complexity that cannot be measured, but has been causal to much speculation, doubt, and strife.

I have never heard of a single mathematician being murdered by another mathematician over a mathematical problem.

I don’t think it’s certain personality types. I think people need or want an invisible friend to cling to, especially in the years before they die, because they are afraid of the unknown and have to have answers so they blame it on an invisible friend.

The was the extent of what was originally said. There’s no argument here.

“Intelligent God” is a proposed solution to the mystery, not a mystery itself. It’s a really bad proposed solution in my opinion. But the comment here was not that the mystery of God could be solved.

We don’t need to make up things to argue about.

Perhaps I misinterpreted the OP title. Sorry. ?

Not unless you have one male cat and one female cat, then 1 + 1 could equal 6 or 8. Rabbits? 1 + 1 could be a dozen. Same with mice, rats and cockroaches. Humans 1 + 1 = 3 without birth control, unless there’s twins, then it’s 4. Now that’s the true nature’s math.

Admitting we don’t know is the beginning of knowledge.

Just as I said. You can’t have offspring without having 1 + 1 = the parents and the number of children. Only does 1 + 1 = 2 if there is birth control.

Why not say the Universe is so powerful that it causes numinous feelings. The Universe is very powerful, but it is all natural and not a god unless humans add god like qualities to it.

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An excellent proposal to explain the feelings that have been labeled “god”. It’s about time we started discussing them. There is a lot of science going on that is looking into this, about where these feelings of connectedness and wonder come from. It’s really interesting, but instead, the news interviews the Pope, and that’s a big deal.

I’m game if you’re game.

In deed there is and it is. I would love to dive into this topic. The only problem I have when I dive into this topic, I end getting accused of making the Universe “God”, but that’s the thing when it comes to feelings and such a topic. It’s almost impossible to not sound like one is making the Universe a deity because of the numinous feelings it gives. Even Neil de Grasse Tyson has mention this.

Well your example is about the “exponential function”, which is about a future probability, not about a simple mathematical addition, which is deterministic.

We’re trying, but mostly we deal with trolls. The Vervaeke 50 hour course I’m taking is loaded with references. His theme is that when we go to figure out what is most needed in our lives, and the lives of others, we are immediately confronted by problems, like needing to know how everything works. We need a computer as big as the universe.

So, somehow, we determine what’s most relevant. We get it wrong a lot, but how do we even know that?

You can’t have an atheist without a deity.

The first known deity came at the beginning of history.

Her name was Inanna.

Later in time, there were many deities.

Logic would be that it would be possible to be a former atheist of a god, yet still be a believer of other gods.

Example, take the top 33 Hindu gods. Maybe, you’re an atheist to only a couple of their god.

Pauline Christian god has three identities. It could be possible not to believe in all three.

A problem with the issue posting is that Classical Conversations Foundation

Christian Worldview Essay says,

The curse of cultural Christianity

A shocking statistic from Barna’s research shows that the majority of Americans consider themselves to be Christians (68%), but only 6% of them have a biblical worldview.

This data clearly shows that although many people identify as Christians, most have no idea what it means to actually be a Christian. These people could be referred to as cultural Christians, which are individuals that claim to be Christian but instead are shaped and molded by the world rather than by God’s holy Word. As a result, America’s spiritual health has been cursed by cultural Christianity.

Brings up many questions. For example, people say they use to be a Christian. But now they are atheists. Does one’s own views of a God count? Are they just an atheist to themselves? What if latter on they really find out what Christianity really is?

Generations today may learn the bible differently than in the past. Generations today may have the option to be more in a middle ground instead of all of believe the bible or not.

AGW…?.. :thinking:

Life does not have to be a mind game.

Common factors from history

Civilization

Top common factors

  1. High protein

  2. Happiness/entertainment

  3. Rules of Laws

  4. High knowledge level

  5. Capitalist system

  6. Control of greed

  7. Minimal caste

  8. Good monetary system

  9. Belief in certain deity

  10. Medical

  11. Security

  12. Entertainment

  13. Good trade accessibilities

The items can be in any order. But High protein has always been at the top of the list. This list is just the top common factors of past successful civilizations. Not all items have to be covered. For example, “belief in certain deities” is not always needed. And some civilizations never had what we would call good security and were controlled by foreign rulers. But still managed to have a good and long-lasting civilization.

NOTE. You’re not going to stop AI. In history, God has always been or about “knowledge”. The deities are just controllers of some form of knowledge. Constantine understood that. And that’s why we have Pauline Christianity today. What we are faced with is to be controlled by a world order or have a democracy system control the “Knowledge” for the good of mankind.

Egyptian (the greatest and longest lasting civilization know to mankind) pharaohs (the keepers of knowledge) went up and down the Nile River from temple to temple to see if the people were well taken care of. The biggest problem they ran into was greed.
I think the answer you are looking for is – “Teach your children well.” AI could be the best teacher mankind has known if properly setup.

[quote=“mikeyohe, post:30, topic:10845”]
Brings up many questions. For example, people say they use to be a Christian. But now they are atheists. Does one’s own views of a God count? Are they just an atheist to themselves? What if latter on they really find out what Christianity really is?

Let me remind you that atheists generally know more about the bible than theists.
That is precisely why they are atheist.

Generations today may learn the bible differently than in the past. Generations today may have the option to be more in a middle ground instead of all of believe the bible or not.

Which bible? And yes, in the past you would be burnt at the stake for being apostate.

Not only that, try the Inquisition’s creed. Now that is scary.

The 1578 edition of the Directorium Inquisitorum (a standard Inquisitorial manual) spelled out the purpose of inquisitorial penalties: … quoniam punitio non refertur primo & per se in correctionem & bonum eius qui punitur, sed in bonum publicum ut alij terreantur, & a malis committendis avocentur (translation: "… for punishment does not take place primarily and per se for the correction and good of the person punished, but for the public good in order that others may become terrified and weaned away from the evils they would commit").

That’s what my sci Fi book is about, if I ever finish it. A planet that didn’t develop gods.

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Sounds like a great book.

As for the other question, I don’t know.

For a general population of Americans being called an atheist is because they do not believe in deities.

Let me give you a progressive viewpoint on the subject.

A couple of points I would like to bring up.

What are the common factors of what atheists understand about the bible?

Mostly, what they understand is Pauline ideas that have been miss translated. And ideas from Christian Movements mostly in the mid-1800’s.

Example: my learning experience. Retired a couple decades ago. Had time to take on a couple hobbies. One was to fully understand religion. The reason was that my family is highly religious. I am not.

My first step was to read and fully understand the bible. I bought all the reference books. Was not after other people’s viewpoints. I wanted my own viewpoints based upon all the facts that I could gather. Really got into research. Spending long days, calling experts across the US and Israel to verify that I was on track. After a couple of years, I leveled off because I knew that it would take a decade for some of the ideas, I was dealing with to be brought out publicly by the experts. And that has been happening. Religious experts are energetically moving the idealism of religion today faster than the public can keep up.

If I would have to guess, I have spent close to 7,400 hours studying religion. Fully enjoy the research today. Who wouldn’t want to learn about their ancestors of the past and not get bogged down in today’s psychological religious traps.

In this time, I only got a few pages into the first book of the Hebrew Bible. Fully read at least forty other books and parts of many more. Most of my research was done by internet.

It was like learning a new language. Hard at first. Then simple to understand once you were into it daily.

What helped was having to deal with my friends, who were preachers. They thought they needed to convert me. Kind of went the other way. Still the best of friends until covid took them away.

God was just a word that meant “knowledge”. Once the Upper Gods were no longer around the Knowledge began to deteriorate. Mankind understood that preserving “knowledge” was what the people wanted. Common factor is that most religions that are somewhat known to Americans are based upon trying to preserve the Holy Grail or in the case of Pauline Christianity the rules of laws passed down from pre-history.

Jesus claimed God is in all of us. Which brings up the question about how many types of knowledge are there?

Genesis explains and warns us about losing the Holy Grail. Which brings up the question of how many types of “us” are there?

Old religion is nothing more than the science of mankind, civilization, and history being passed down by tradition.

To understand past religions, one must understand the subject matter which is “knowledge” and “Homo Sapiens” as our understanding of the Upper Gods are limited.

Unlike every other human species, Homo sapiens does not have a true type specimen. In other words, there is not a particular Homo sapiens individual that researchers recognize as being the specimen that gave Homo sapiens its name. Smithsonian

If the Smithsonian says there are 21, then you can be sure the diversity is much greater. For instance, the recently discovered dwarf human species Homo luzonensis, who is known from just a few bones from a cave in the Philippines, is not included on the Smithsonian’s list.

Some of the Holly Grail common factors are:

Hyperthymesia

Polydactyly

Prodigious savant

Why take the time to study old religion? There are professors today who claim our ancestors were much smarter than people are today.

The savants show us just how much humans skills can deal with knowledge.

Civilization today is close to having the technical expertise to possibly regenerate the Holy Grail into the population. In other words, change mankind.

Yes we do. All humans have 46 pr chromosomes. All other apes have 48 pr chromosomes.

This difference is the result of a rare beneficial “mutation” (miracle?), that produced 1 double sized from the fusion of 2 individual chromosomes in our common ancestor.

Human Chromosome 2 is a fusion of two ancestral chromosomes
Alec MacAndrew

Introduction

All great apes apart from man have 24 pairs of chromosomes. There is therefore a hypothesis that the common ancestor of all great apes had 24 pairs of chromosomes and that the fusion of two of the ancestor’s chromosomes created chromosome 2 in humans. The evidence for this hypothesis is very strong.

Let us re-iterate what we find on human chromosome 2. Its centromere is at the same place as the chimpanzee chromosome 2p as determined by sequence similarity. Even more telling is the fact that on the 2q arm of the human chromosome 2 is the unmistakable remains of the original chromosome centromere of the common ancestor of human and chimp 2q chromosome, at the same position as the chimp 2q centromere (this structure in humans no longer acts as a centromere for chromosome 2.

Conclusion

The evidence that human chromosome 2 is a fusion of two of the common ancestor’s chromosomes is overwhelming.

and an update

https://bmcgenomics.biomedcentral.com/counter/pdf/10.1186/s12864-022-08828-7.pdf#

Did you listen to James Tabor in the LINK?
Bibles are a book of moral teachings. They also include very little about God directly. If you want to understand about God. Read Genesis. Once you fully understand all parts of Genesis. Then you understand 98% of the human history’s problems with the domestication of man.

I understand that in spite of some naive attempt at interpreting Origins, the bible and especially the OT is a hopelessly flawed document , with some rudimentary truths that have nothing to do with an antropomorphized God, that acts like a human.

God was invented by smart apes, that later became human. Chimps today are religious.
But to them it is that unseen powerful being in the sky, that can make loud noises and throw fire and water at him and his family.

Oh, I forgot that God is still that unseen powerful being in the sky that makes loud noises and throws fire and water at people. Isn’t a hurricane “The wrath of God” ?

It isn’t that I do not believe in a god.
It’s just that without evidence, I don’t believe you when you tell me there IS a God as described in the bible.

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All of them? And all them didn’t have viewpoints? Just facts? I’d like to see that bibliography.

What are you talking about? I wish I could write my exasperated tone into this comment.