We do know! We use it to control many forces in nature.
Mathemay=tics got us to Mars. Mathematics put the Webb Observatory in space and we are seeing the universe more clearly that ever before!
This is a typical example of; “We don’t truly appreciate what we have until it’s gone" (Roy T Bennett)
Could you imagine life without mathematics? Try it, it’s impossible.
I get that. But we can’t see a predictable path to knowing all these answers.
[quote=“lausten, post:183, topic:9361, full:true”]
I get that. But we can’t see a predictable path to knowing all these answers.
Not yet, but so far mathematics has revealed everything we do know about the universe. I see no limitation to our discoveries yet.
I remember hearing several cosmologists declaring that all new cosmological mathematics are being"discovered" rather than “invented”.
Researching the properties of a dynamic object that has existed for 13.7 billion years is going to take some time. We’ve been at it how long?
A few centuries?
Our own natural observational powers are very limited. But using applied mathematics we can augment our short comings by artificial means and there is no limit on that . We are able to see back in time and down to nano scale. We can photographically slow down a photon, and we have learned to look around corners.
There is a tremendous series of scientific accomplishments on Youtube.
NOVA; “Making things smarter”
and “Making things smaller”
Now consider that nature has already done all this on it’s own.
And here is the proof.
Can we learn from this how single-celled organisms have a memory of time periods? They have their own clocks. If these clocks become attuned to a regular change in conditions, they can begin to anticipate time.
This ability for “timing” has been experimentally proven in the behavior of the slime mold. It’s mathematics in a “slime mold” ???
Nicely put.
{oh and Lausten please notice my correction up at #176, my apology.}
. . . . . . . . .
Write4u,
This isn’t about what a fantastic tool math has evolved into, it’s about your enthusiasm and conviction in your own knowledge that crosses a line into religion.
It’s a philosophical thing and not about the all the wonderful things math has made accessible to us.
It’s about recognizing a fundamental divide, which is also a fundamental limitation to what we people can know, with this amazing body/brain of ours.
Of course human maths is a fantastic tool. It speaks the language of the universe.
The English language is a fantastic tool for Englishmen, but not for Germans.
Mathematics is a fantastic tool used universally by all of science.
Ricky Gervais put it so beautifully in this little clip with Steven Colbert.
Can you imagine if one could produce as much evidence for the existence and functionality of God as for Mathematics?
I am not enthusiastic, I am 99% confident that the Universe is Logical in essence and Mathematics is the language of the logical processes and functional mechanics of evolutionary processes.
Tell me this is a false process: Value Input → Mathematical Function → Value Output
Schematic depiction of a function described metaphorically as a “machine” or “black box” that for each input yields a corresponding output
This is how all of it works. It is the relational dynamics of inherent values interacting via mathematical functions.
Can anyone substitute the symbolic term “function” with the symbolic term “god”?
If so, how would that work?
Reminds me of an old ADHD joke.
Knock Knock.
Who’s there?
Let’s go play basketball.
[quote=“citizenschallengev4, post:187, topic:9361”]
Reminds me of an old ADHD joke.Knock Knock.
Who’s there?
Let’s go play basketball.
The good lord made me drop the ball!!
He tripped me before I could dunk the ball!!!
Never hear that, do we?
Oh, oh, now were having two different conversations. 
Just drawing a comparison between religious belief and evidence supported hypothesis.
Trying to stay on the topic of creative agency… 
Oh and I thought we were discussing human consciousness and why some wrestle with the notion of a creator god.
I’m trying to discuss how people think about their short life, eternal death and their transient place in the world, all the while trying to make sense of the world itself.
{Mods - That is so weird how the quote does an auto delete when I hit post, tags me with an edit, then when I pull the quote back into it, I get tagged for a 2nd edit. Not bitching, just pointing out it’s happening again.}