My two cents, the science says that we can’t, for now. The best we can say is, it has the most proven track record, the best results so far. That’s by a long shot, so the choice is obvious to me. But there is always that bit of doubt that creeps in.
Ya I think that’s the best we can do. See how things play out. Now you and me for example think giving women the vote is great, because they add so much. The thumpers by and large disagree, but in general that’s the way things have progressed and regardless of how hard they thump, the truth is, women have made the world a better place. But even that’s relative I guess. There are people who probably look at where women have gotten as a bad thing.
True enough. Isn’t that why some people try to record their thoughts to share with others, exactly because others haven’t had the lucky breaks to experience the moments we have. Offering hints to the rest of the story.
Write offered a good response up there.
I’m coming at it from a slightly different perspective.
I think the problem is with definitions,
What’s meant with “Intelligence”?
Even the simple, what’s meant with “Awareness”
Is intelligence the same as “Consciousness” - if not
how is Consciousness different from “Intelligence”
and how are they tied together?
awareness ~ consciousness ~ intelligence ~ self-awareness ~ introspection
Is that simply a continuum, what’s the difference between them?
Seems to me those sorts of things needs to be teased out a little better before this sort of conversation starts being constructive.
Yup, because it’s so damned difficult to get our ego out of our judgement calls.
But that leaves the fact that if you drill down to why people think it’s a bad thing for woman to be on a equal footing with men - I don’t think you’ll find facts or reasoning brought into it. Because it so often comes down to, that’s what my beloved dad taught me and F you and your ideas, go back to where you came from, before I get angry at your effrontery.
No effort to consider more than one side of the story.
How much that changes, I don’t know.
It speaks for itself.
Still, one can’t have a conversation with someone who doesn’t want to hear anything.
Same as it ever was.
And why are they successful? Because too few liberal hearted people, are able to stand up and defend their moral and ethics with the passion that your God-fearing person can.
And I find that a crying shame, because a purely fact based understanding, if it’s deep enough to appreciate the eons of time, march by one day at a time, working on this planet and it’s geology and biology to create something that doesn’t come close to existing in the entire known universe - Offers spiritual challenges and resolutions every bit as grand as the epiphanies religion can offer. The stuff that can only be felt inside of individuals.
Also I don’t see what I’m writing about as any argument - this stuff I write about is self-evident fact, once one stops long enough to actually think about it. All I have control over is trying to describe what I see as well as possible. The rest is up to the mind of any readers, perceivers.
That’s what my big deal is all about. Providing science lovers with some ideas that demonstrate we’re onto something even more “spiritual” and fantastic as all those manmade religions with their self-serving ego driven scriptures. We have a clear constructive understanding of living on this planet (and it’s complex interwoven system), that matters because we depend on Earth for everything - something one can’t understand if one has a god stuck up their ego.
So guess the answer to your question, for my particular project, all those God fearing are irrelevant to what I’m doing here.
I’m concerned about the Reasoning Crowd, the rationalists, the respecters of honesty and evidence and the scientific way.
This is all about trying to help them find some spiritual backbone in order to be able to stand up to Alt-right charlatans and their nonsensical hysteria conspiracy theories.
Those who are tired of being pushed around and screamed at by hatefilled delusionals with their vacuous Faith-based notions telling us, we’re going to hell and don’t deserve to exist in their world’.
That’s strange coming from you. You seem intent on berating those who just don’t get it, instead of looking for ways to reach them
It would be impossible to berate the extreme religious crowd, (that do things like manipulate a personal crisis like as unwanted child (because of health, rape/abuse, attack, anyone of many reason men simply can’t understand from a distance, for pure power and political control motivations), worse than their own actions condemn them.
Not sure how you think I should act toward them, pretend that they haven’t been lying an conniving against our pluralistic society for decades?
Who’s berating whom???
Why should I worry about them?
They don’t care.
Why shouldn’t I rather worry about all the self-conscious rationalist - who thanks to decades of la la philosophical indulgences - most frankly don’t know their heads from their bottoms. (if that weren’t the fact, American society wouldn’t be in such a mess ) With everything being relative to everything else winding up meaning nothing is real.
Yeah, like that. I was speaking specifically to people’s abilities to experience the world as an amazing result of deep time and some fundamental forces. Not the politics of those who don’t experience that.
Yes I was extreme, but today’s politics is extreme, and the facts of our situation are what they are - we are on a fast tract and here and here and here) to self-destructing this splendid world and the society we created upon it and could have held onto for generations longer, had we but had a bit more wisdom and bit less gluttony .
Besides, it’s the first part that matters more than a tantrum:
who are trying to figure out their own lives and learning.
Regarding religion and peoples’ gods.
Neils Degrasse talks about the three different kinds of truths,
There Are 3 Kinds Of Truths In The World - Neil DeGrasse Tyson ON
0:14 Objective Truth
1:00 Personal Truth
2:00 The Danger of our Personal Truth
3:40 The Danger of Dogma
4:24 PoliticaL Truth
I like that. I believe religions and gods are real and many people need them and the community that comes with it - Still these gods are products of our Minds and Hearts and Passions and upbringing - not some universal ultimate celebrity super-power.
I can understand a personal god of the heart, that you reflect through the dignity of your actions and life, not something you need to push on others.
Seems to me it brings us back to the beginning:
Appreciating the Human Mindscape ~ Physical Reality divide.
Of course it is intelligence. Rudimentary to be sure, but specific responses to specific stimulation is a form of intelligent behavior. This needs not be a conscious ability. But it has been proven that cells in Eukaryotic organisms alreadey communicate with eac other. This is done via the microtubules in the cytoplasm and cytoskeleton. (see thread on microtubules).
The proof in this is found in the abilities of the Slime mold a multi-nucleic single celled organism that has no neural network or brain. It is just a collection of cells.
It can walk via pseudopodia (eleongation and contraction of cellular shapes).
It uses mathematics (subtraction) to find food through complicated mazes. It can construct a food transport system that rivals human highway systems.
It can tell time and act in anticipation of expected stimulus.
The only data transport and processing mechanism in slime molds is provided by microtubules in its cytoplasm.
Watch this incredible intelligence creature at work.
The single celled Paramecium uses microtubule powered cilia to swim and maneuver around obstacles.
Single celled Amoaba hunt Paramecium and engulf them via microtubular action in its cytoplasm.
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