[Hispanic] Immigration, the GOP, & Racism

Islamic peoples, regardless of their tribalsim or nationalism, are extremely backward people. Maybe they need to be forced out of their own dark ages, where they are inextricably and deliberately stuck--to their detriment.
Force them out of their own dark ages? How would you propose doing that? I will be absolutely shocked if Lois comes up with any coherent answer to that. She has no clue how she came to be so lucky to live in a peaceful and progressive society. I wasn't advocating violence. There are sensible ways to get people into the 21st Century. Force might have been too strong a word, though "encourage" may be too weak. There has to be an effective middle ground. It would not be a lot different from getting people out of cults, but on a larger scale. Education will be the key, but it won't happen overnight. Lois

I’m very interested in your comments on this Lois. I had a friend recently make a remark about “lazy blacks". She tried to backtrack, saying it was her “personal observation". Your explanation is actually better, but I have a couple issues with it.
Every generalization has exceptions, can’t argue there, so my simply pointing out that a generalization isn’t an absolute is not productive. I’m hearing an argument against extreme governments that cut people off from advancing. And that exceptions work both ways, so there is extremism even when you have a progressive secular government.
This is what I can’t figure out, “The backwardness of Islam is not the fault of the people". That’s certainly true for some people, and we can identify them, we have film of children being indoctrinated, we can see their propaganda online and we know the phenomenon of people choosing to ignore facts. So, what is “Islam"? Is it the people who call themselves Muslims? Is it the government that claims it is based on Islam with help from clergy? Is it anyone who has parents who are Islamic? Is it anyone born in a majority Islam nation? I think the only one of those questions that can be correctly answered “yes" is the first one. That’s what “freedom of religion" and “religious pluralism" mean to me, that you get to say what you are and what that means.
I’m glad you clarified your use of the word “force". And I agree that there are people out there who are damaged, and that education is key. But, yes, I really think Islam is not backward. It’s worse in some ways than other religions, but all have the same problem. And since we still have Presidents who pray and a Pope that is considered a world leader, the whole world must be backward, which is to say, it is what it is. We can identify the dangers of a brain like ours that still jumps from its own shadow and can make a nuclear bomb. No single culture can be blamed for that.
At best, you have identified a dangerous minority within a minority. And you’ve identified some of the tools of oppression that have been used to make them dangerous. The sensible next move is to focus on those tools, those dynamics of history of politics. It makes no sense to use words like “Islam today" or “Islamic peoples are extremely backward", or “they".

Out of respect to you, I will assume not. Okay. 1st off, I have to point out that I did NOT say that Nationalism and Racism are the same thing (lest you accuse me of doing so). Here's your couple of bullet points re: common underlying elements: * In both cases, there is an identification of the "other group/s". * In both cases, there is a sense of my group is "better than" the other group/s. Also, I should point out, that I did not say that Nationalism should be viewed as pejoratively as Racism, in case you may have inferred that.
That's fine. I think it should be easy to detect that I am a nationalist. That's no surprise. I am not however a racist. It is possible to have a Japanese, a Black, and a WASP American and they can all be Nationalists. Your examples above are stretching it. They have a word for racism..it's racism. They have a word for Nationalism..it's Nationalism. If I'll concede anything it's that those terms may have been slightly interchangeable 100 years ago when nation's racial populations were more homogenized. We aren't living 100 years ago now. That don't get it today. "Our Group" can be composed(and IS)of several different races. And as is evident, populations can be nationalist and still take part in the Globalization of various schemes. I only asserted that there are some common underlying elements to each, as an aside thought. I also did NOT suggest that the two terms be used interchangeably. That would be completely wrong. And I say again "I did NOT say that Nationalism and Racism are the same thing." Since the topic seems so important to you, I will say that I view, racism, tribalism, and nationalism as being on a sort of cultural continuum (nationalism being at the top of that continuum, in terms of cultural advancement). I think that we are inherently predisposed to have some level of racism, (whether we are aware of it or not). I view tribalism, as a social structure that was a critical stage, in the development of human civilization. Even, today, benign tribalism, that seeks to maintain its own cultural idiosyncrasies, while not seeking to dominate or destroy others, can be a positive thing. I view the development of nation states as a further advancement in the culture of human civilization. And Nationalism is part of what has kept nations together. But through each of these, can run the thread of "my group is better than, and more deserving than, your group". That thread, I think, is something to guard against.
And Nationalism is part of what has kept nations together. But through each of these, can run the thread of "my group is better than, and more deserving than, your group". That thread, I think, is something to guard against.
Yes Tim, and nice fresh bread can get moldy too. It's rough and tumble world out there....
Why is racism in the title? Did everyone see that Switzerland has practically blocked all refugees? Are they all racists?
Not at all. But then, it's easy not to be racist when you keep your society 'pure'.
We aren't living 100 years ago now.
Try explaining that to Tea Partiers and other libertarian types.
Why is racism in the title? Did everyone see that Switzerland has practically blocked all refugees? Are they all racists?
Not at all. But then, it's easy not to be racist when you keep your society 'pure'. Oh that's a good one CC! :lol: Clever.
And Nationalism is part of what has kept nations together. But through each of these, can run the thread of "my group is better than, and more deserving than, your group". That thread, I think, is something to guard against.
Yes Tim, and nice fresh bread can get moldy too. It's rough and tumble world out there.... So now you want to talk about keeping bread fresh and how rough and tumbly the world is? I simply responded to your repeated pressing on a side comment that I made.