I am a hedonist who feels that pleasure is the only thing that matters in life and that if I don’t have it, then I and this life are both worthless. I am also an atheist who knows that, even though life is about not giving up and ending your life, I actually feel otherwise and I will present a compelling reason as to why:
There is something in life that I absolutely hate and wish to be superior to which would be acceptance of major problems in life (such as if I had to live the rest of my life in a hospital bed with cancer or live my entire life with little to no ability to experience pleasure from a mental condition known as anhedonia or depression). This sense of superiority can come in 2 forms: 1.) Having delusional fantasies and living a happy life not having to deal with these problems or 2.) Actually using a hard cold fact of reality to my advantage such as that, since there is no point in living and that we are just all going to forever die in the end anyway, instead of being someone who accepts major problems in life and continues to live on anyway, I will become a cold hard bastard and decide to do what I want by ending my pointless life. The cold hard fact of reality that since we are forever going to die in the end and that we might as well just kill ourselves, this is actually something liberating to me and I can use this fact of reality to become superior to acceptance of reality’s major problems. I would have given up and died. But at least I have given up and died as someone superior. I would actually feel empowered and superior for deciding to have given up and killed myself and feel that this cold hard fact of reality I stated is my best friend since I can use it to my advantage here.
Most people would not only consider those who give up and end their lives to be cowardly (weak), but they would also consider those who don’t deal with such problems and escape such problems through delusional fantasies to be cowardly as well. But I, on the other hand, do not feel cowardly (weak). Instead, I feel the opposite which would be feeling empowered by those things. Therefore, since I feel empowered instead of cowardly (weak), this is what makes me the opposite of cowardly (weak) in that I would instead be a powerful human being.
I think I responded to another of you “whoa is me” posts. If you’re thinking of all this stuff in theory only, and you’re not really that bad off, then whatever. BUT if you’re posing these things as real life scenarios you are experiencing then here’s my answer again: get a hobby, get a pet, get something no matter how trivial to give your life some meaning and STOP worrying so much about these dark death topics. Go watch Tommy Boy or a good Cheech and Chong movie. Take up jogging. Anything to start living life instead of constantly worrying about it.
Sounds like atheism is not working for you. Maybe you need god, if you’re having trouble dealing with controlling mental power. The church can help you in those areas, they have had a lot of practice at these types of issues. Understand the church does more than deal with god, it is people dealing with people. You might have to visit many churches to find the one that can help your needs.
I am suggesting this because the feeling you described are not the feeling of a true atheist. Atheist live on in the knowledge they pass on to the next generation.
Sounds like atheism is not working for you. Maybe you need god, if you’re having trouble dealing with controlling mental power. The church can help you in those areas, they have had a lot of practice at these types of issues. Understand the church does more than deal with god, it is people dealing with people. You might have to visit many churches to find the one that can help your needs. I am suggesting this because the feeling you described are not the feeling of a true atheist. Atheist live on in the knowledge they pass on to the next generation.I like my answer better. Church is never a good answer in the same way drugs isn't. (Unless you're old and infirm OR have just suffered a horrible loss of a child. In those two cases MAYBE church can provide something, and actually not church per se but a little holy book reading, just as a placebo that may have a positive if delusional effect).
Not much for conversation are you Mozart? You keep starting up threads, with a slight twist on the same ideas of life being meaningless. Not much more I can say about that.
I was listening to a little Frank Schaeffer this morning. He tries to ride the fine edge between faith and doubt too. He told a boring story about discovering a rock band that has a Christian audience, but found them to have a worldview more like his liberal/spiritual thing. His point was, he felt like he was the only who felt the way he did until he went out and opened himself to other experiences. His prejudice against Christian rock had kept him from discovering this band, but by opening his mind, going to see something that he expected he would not like, he found something he connected with.
Not experiencing pleasure must be a bummer. But you have your mind. You have hands and feet (I assume). Use them.
I like my answer better.Yea, I know what you mean, but I disagree in the view of the church. Religion is not about god, it is about “self" and "blind faith". Proof, they found what could have been the bones of “god" a few years back. The Christians shouted “fraud" without even looking at the facts, because religion really does not deal with the god factor as something that needs to be understood (just have faith). Religion is about things like heaven, even though they know very little to nothing about heaven, other than self-thought ideas. AA and other organizations are based upon faith in god, even though there is no preaching being done. Society today, still needs the churches, but less and less as knowledge is available mainly on the internet.
Now there are two forms of strength in life: 1.) Deciding to live on in life anyway and never give up as well as for the sake of other people, or 2.) Giving yourself a sense of self-empowerment through death and ending your life.
Both forms of strength are just as good and I have found my own strength in life (which would be #2). You also have to consider the mindset I am having in deciding to end my life before you just jump to the conclusion that it is something cowardly (providing that anyone here would think so). I would not be giving up because life is too much (which might be considered something cowardly, but you have no right to tell these people that they are weak and cowardly. If you would know what it is like to live with the worst possible suffering, then I bet you wouldn’t say that).
As I just stated, I would not be cowardly and giving up because life is too much. Rather, I would have a powerful totalitarian dictator personality in wanting to end all things inferior in my life (just like how Hitler wanted to end all of the Jews that he perceived as inferior. Except, that I am not like Hitler in the sense that I value other human beings, but I am Hitler in the sense that I wish to “kill” inferior problems in my life). Therefore, to end my inferior problems in life if they are something major, then I would obviously choose to end my life.
Rather, I would have a powerful totalitarian dictator personality in wanting to end all things inferior in my lifeAnd what makes you so superior? :-/
I looked up this anhedonia thing. Here are a couple thoughts. Saying it is “incurable” is not really true. Depression is difficult to diagnose because it isn’t detectable by x-ray or blood test, but treatments are being tested all the time and many people report responding to them. The really difficult part is, the person with the disease has to participate in the treatment and the disease makes you lethargic and uninterested in treatment. That makes it hard for anyone trying to help you too, because they can’t tell the difference between what the disease is doing and what is just normal obstinacy.
I don’t doubt you have this disease, but how you interact with us is no different than people who don’t have it, so we don’t have much choice but to respond as we normally do. For example, lots of people give similar arguments as you about why they choose to believe there is an afterlife. Their ability to experience pleasure in this life doesn’t make their argument or yours any more or less compelling.
You mentioned music. I saw that disinterest in music or inability to enjoy music is one of the variations of anhedonia. You don’t have that, so it gives you something to build upon, a way to express yourself and build support. I hope to hear more about that.
Most people would not only consider those who give up and end their lives to be cowardly (weak)...Not me, because I've had thoughts of suicide myself. A person who thinks about suicide is not being Rational, because you're going to die someday anyway. There is no point in hastening the day. When I think about suicide I realize that I am not being rational and do something about it. In only have one question. If you really do feel "empowered" by killing yourself, why haven't you done it yet?
Both forms of strength are just as good and I have found my own strength in life (which would be #2). You also have to consider the mindset I am having in deciding to end my life before you just jump to the conclusion that it is something cowardly (providing that anyone here would think so). I would not be giving up because life is too much (which might be considered something cowardly, but you have no right to tell these people that they are weak and cowardly. If you would know what it is like to live with the worst possible suffering, then I bet you wouldn't say that).Ooops! Faulty logic. The mere fact that you're trying to justify your suicide as being strong willed is only proof that it is ultimately cowardly. After all, if you have the will to do such a "strong" act as suicide, you should have the will to change your life and make it better. That would be true strength and will power. After all, your going to die eventually anyways. So living with the will to live and the knowledge of ultimate death is far more "strong" and powerful than just giving up with some pathetic cop-out like you are displaying here. By committing suicide you're giving up without knowing if you ever could have had the real strength to change your life and live it with the knowledge of ultimate death anyways. The fact that the vast majority of people who have suffering and pain in life don't kill themselves should point out some basic things about yourself. Mainly weakness. Perhaps if humans were immortal, then you could call suicide strong willed. But we are not, we all die eventually. So we all have to live with suffering and ultimate death too. That's true strength. The normal thing is to live until death by natural causes or accident. Suicide is a sign of illness. Illness can be fixed. You exploring how to fix yourself would be a sign of strength.
Now there are two forms of strength in life: 1.) Deciding to live on in life anyway and never give up as well as for the sake of other people, or 2.) Giving yourself a sense of self-empowerment through death and ending your life. Both forms of strength are just as good and I have found my own strength in life (which would be #2). You also have to consider the mindset I am having in deciding to end my life before you just jump to the conclusion that it is something cowardly (providing that anyone here would think so). I would not be giving up because life is too much (which might be considered something cowardly, but you have no right to tell these people that they are weak and cowardly. If you would know what it is like to live with the worst possible suffering, then I bet you wouldn't say that). As I just stated, I would not be cowardly and giving up because life is too much. Rather, I would have a powerful totalitarian dictator personality in wanting to end all things inferior in my life (just like how Hitler wanted to end all of the Jews that he perceived as inferior. Except, that I am not like Hitler in the sense that I value other human beings, but I am Hitler in the sense that I wish to "kill" inferior problems in my life). Therefore, to end my inferior problems in life if they are something major, then I would obviously choose to end my life.You appear to be talking to yourself and not listening to others. Have you thought about my advice to get a hobby? Not every solution has to be some grand cosmic big deal. Also you said this: If you would know what it is like to live with the worst possible suffering, then I bet you wouldn't say that. I'm assuming that's not you, because if you have access to a computer and the internet, and enough sense to post stuff to a forum, then you are no where close to "worst possible suffering". Watch a documentary on people in the world who don't have drinkable water, don't have toilets, then think about your own suffering in comparison. Seriously, get a hobby, lighten up, and whatever you do, don't think about doing drugs and alcohol. Those just make things worse in the end.
Both forms of strength are just as good and I have found my own strength in life (which would be #2). You also have to consider the mindset I am having in deciding to end my life before you just jump to the conclusion that it is something cowardly (providing that anyone here would think so). I would not be giving up because life is too much (which might be considered something cowardly, but you have no right to tell these people that they are weak and cowardly. If you would know what it is like to live with the worst possible suffering, then I bet you wouldn't say that).Ooops! Faulty logic. The mere fact that you're trying to justify your suicide as being strong willed is only proof that it is ultimately cowardly. After all, if you have the will to do such a "strong" act as suicide, you should have the will to change your life and make it better. That would be true strength and will power. After all, your going to die eventually anyways. So living with the will to live and the knowledge of ultimate death is far more "strong" and powerful than just giving up with some pathetic cop-out like you are displaying here. By committing suicide you're giving up without knowing if you ever could have had the real strength to change your life and live it with the knowledge of ultimate death anyways. The fact that the vast majority of people who have suffering and pain in life don't kill themselves should point out some basic things about yourself. Mainly weakness. Perhaps if humans were immortal, then you could call suicide strong willed. But we are not, we all die eventually. So we all have to live with suffering and ultimate death too. That's true strength. The normal thing is to live until death by natural causes or accident. Suicide is a sign of illness. Illness can be fixed. You exploring how to fix yourself would be a sign of strength. Although I could understand this if it was just some physical suffering, if it was lifelong anhedonia that never gets better despite treatment and everything else in which I can experience little to no pleasure at all, then my reasonings for committing suicide would be well justified and a strength as I am ending something inferior that is beneath me which would be a life that is now truly worthless.
Although I could understand this if it was just some physical suffering, if it was lifelong anhedonia that never gets better despite treatment and everything else in which I can experience little to no pleasure at all, then my reasonings for committing suicide would be well justified and a strength as I am ending something inferior that is beneath me which would be a life that is now truly worthless.It's not a strength. It's just despair. You need to continue looking for help from doctors and friends. Keep looking and seeking help. You are not going to find it here on the internet. Go out to the real world and touch bases with people, real people. And keep doing it until you find the right place and the right people. They're out there.
Although I could understand this if it was just some physical suffering, if it was lifelong anhedonia that never gets better despite treatment and everything else in which I can experience little to no pleasure at all, then my reasonings for committing suicide would be well justified and a strength as I am ending something inferior that is beneath me which would be a life that is now truly worthless.It's not a strength. It's just despair. You need to continue looking for help from doctors and friends. Keep looking and seeking help. You are not going to find it here on the internet. Go out to the real world and touch bases with people, real people. And keep doing it until you find the right place and the right people. They're out there. I agree with this and VYAZMA and I never agree on anything, so it must be true and superior to any other logic.