That’s what I mean, he also never explains why it’s not you.
That’s also what I meant, he’s implying some sorta ghost in the machine.
Looking at his other videos though there seems to be some sorta weird metaphysicy vibes he thinks consciousness is. The exercise in the middle of just noticing doesn’t prove much to me because we have a center and it’s the brain and futzing with it literally affects everything about it. We don’t feel it because we can’t and that’s by design.
Seth made mention of this interoception of the body where you’re only aware of something when it goes wrong, which is the point. If everything is ok there isn’t a need to flag that for your attention. You wouldn’t really feel anything in your brain but just because you don’t “notice” one in the exercise doesn’t change that.
Yeah, it was weird put together by exurb1a
I think he was trying too hard to be cute (now that I’ve gotten to know him a wee bit more.).
After this I had another video suggested,
Meaning is a Jumper That You Have to Knit Yourself
Had the time, so couldn’t resist, half way through I think wait a minute, did a quick double check and sure enough same author. The shocking thing was, that this video made sense throughout, with minor concessions for his humor.
And found it rather relatable.
Well yes we can live perhaps to 100, Earth is about 4,500,000,000 years old, the Universe is about 14 billion, perhaps double that.
Okay there is no meaning to our existence.
Perhaps that’s the first step.
But “meaning” like “truth” means nothing unless they are framed within a context.
From there you can build your own definitions or parameters for a meaningful life.
I know my life is meaning less to the world or time, but there are people for whom I do matter, things I am interested in, and a sense of self that wants, demands, to enjoy life and be good to people as much as possible. Not that I can’t turn into a very nasty character if pushed, but I abhor that side, or those situation, and do all I can to dance around and avoid them.
What more meaning are you looking for?
But we are who we are, I’m sad that you don’t seem to have that sense of self that you can build upon. I wish I could say something to help, but it seems futile, that is also sad. Good luck.
You can’t really not do it though, can you? If you are alive, you are reasoning, you can’t do any less. If you don’t, how do you know where to put your next step? How do you know what to make for breakfast?
Dan Barker says we’re asking the question wrong. He has a book on it. You could probably find a video too.
The theme of the book is that there is no purpose of life — but much purpose in life, which one can find for oneself; a purpose that might find you. This is great news: you can create your own purpose. Purpose comes from solving problems
Sean Carroll knows the history of the universe, and notes that we are lucky to live in a time where entropy is slowed, energy is creating life. Most of the time everything is moving toward less complexity, less interaction. It’s those interactions that give us feelings, and we can manipulate them, create joy for others. And it’s awesome.
A Celebration of Reason - 2012 Global Atheist Convention 13-15th April - Melbourne Convention Exhibition Centre Presented by the Atheist Foundation of Australia http://atheistconvention.org.auhttp://atheistfoundation.org.au Dan Barker was elected co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation with Annie Laurie Gaylor in 2004, his co-host of Freethought Radio, a national weekly talkshow on the Air America network. He is a contributing editor of Freethought Today and is involved with the Foundation’s state/church lawsuits.
This, again, still seems like lying to yourself. Purpose seems like a lie we tell ourselves to cope with existence and feel like there is something to stick around for when it’s just our delusion. Purpose doesn’t come from solving problems, and I mentioned how creating your own meaning is lying to yourself.
It sorta reminds me of Ernest Becker and “The Denial of Death”, where humans in order to cope with the terror of existence we make up stories and fantasies to make it bearable. That a certain level of psychosis is needed else we would collapse under what life is really like. We make things up to feel more important than we actually are.
Like I said, I can’t really lie to myself. I don’t really eat breakfast, where I walk is sometimes just autopilot, but that’s not really stuff mattering.
Or as a guy I used to know would have said:
“IMO most of humanity is lost in a cul de sac of hiding from the unpleasant truths of reality. Ernest Becker wrote a very interesting book that really delves into this (Denial of Death). So basically everyone is telling a story that on some level they know is not true. But to face that is frightening. So they tell comforting stories to each other and to keep that doubt and fear from arising they expect you to tell that very same story. If you don’t you will be suspect and usually attacked or ignored. I’d guess that’s why you think people suck. It’s good you give new people a shot to be real before you write them off because really it’s no ones fault. We get programmed to tell these stories right from the get go.”
And why do we want to make it bearable? Or, why is it that our inevitable march to death is terrible? Do you see the point you are missing? How can there be no meaning if facing our short existence is frightening? Where does the terror come from?
Obvious answer, existing is better than not existing. Once you have tasted the sweet fruit of knowing you are sailing through the stars on a ball of molten magma, you want to keep doing it.
Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence
A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.
I’m from generation X, we don’t like labels. I think he has acknowledged that he is arguing for nihilism. Our ancient ancestors developed the ability to deal with the fear of death by a sort of forgetting, the ability to put aside that inevitable end and get on with taking care of ourselves. Since it’s a developed survival mechanism, without which most of us wouldn’t be here, there are also parts of us that don’t feel that way. It’s not something we arrive at logically, it’s not a disease, anyone of us can sometimes feel joy in the moment, or dread.
As one of the oldest Gen X’ers, the only labels I like are the ones I give myself. I am female. I am a mother and grandmother. I am a human… Those sort of labels.
Logically, it has some validity. In a giant cosmic sense, we mean nothing. But what about the 80 or so years you are here? Nihilism avoids that question.
The epistemic nihilist claims to know that there is no objective truth as a matter of objective truth. – Richard Cocks*
I read the arguments for existential nihilism in wikipedia. They’re terrible. Not terrifying, I mean really bad.
Things like
there is no justification for life, but also no reason not to live. Those who claim to find meaning in their lives are either dishonest or deluded. In either case, they fail to face up to the harsh reality of the human situation. – Donald Crosby
As if knowing you are going to die makes you better than others, or more aware, I’m not sure what. Any slightly intelligent creature will fight to live when faced with death. It’s not something that requires any logical reasoning. What does it mean “face reality”? And how is being happy not facing it? To me, deciding to be sad about something you can’t change is a poor use of reasoning skills.
I don’t buy into epistemic nihilism but it’s more the existential that gets me. He’s not talking about fear of death but rather the sheer, utter, and unyielding unimportance of our lives. How nothing matters, at all. Whether grand scheme or small scale we invent stories and fantasies of what’s important to avoid staring into the abyss.
It’s like that video about meaning being a jumper, it was close but not there. That nagging sense of meaning mean seeks once survival is over, that’s the void. The sinking notion of all this being utterly worthless and meaningless in every capacity. But we dream, we pretend, we do whatever it takes to ignore the truth in the corner of our minds.
We are thrust into an indifferent universe with no guidance, inventing goals and journeys that “if we only reached it then…” or grand narratives to strive for to feel like we are worth something. But the sad reality is the end of each of those pursuits is ash in the mouth, so we jump to the next, and the next, a never ending hamster wheel of distraction. Because if we ever were to stop, if we were made to bathe in the silence, we’d shudder to find there never was anything at the end of it all.
It’s just a show, mere performance, but the actors have forgotten such. They perform for an empty theater but dare not look, to keep the illusion going. It has to be real, it has to matter, and if we keep it going a little while longer it can stay that way.
In short it’s truly reckoning with the utter meaninglessness of the universe, beyond the drama and fantasy we try to drape over it to make it palatable. It’s a fact I have to forget on a regular basis for my own sanity. But once your see it, it becomes hard to pretend after the fact. As a kid I had a glimpse of it when I thought how we constructed this whole world for ourselves. But now older it’s hard to pretend and believe it matters.
It is something that happens when your brain fully forms. You lose the innonence of childhood, when you didn’t need to worry about your basic needs. Now you have to choose one need over another, when to work and when to play, and choices require reasons and the reasons make more sense if they have underlying meaning. But if you look for meaning to support the meaning you eventually hit an end.
This idea that not finding meaning means that something is wrong, sounds like a belief system, and you are trying to convince me that it’s true. I know it’s true that there is no inherent meaning to be found, not like one would find a missing item. But you want me to believe that means something. You looked and saw nothing, and “truly reckoned” with it, whatever that means. Now you want to convince me I should react like you.
Billions of people have seen what you see and go on living happy lives. This is a conundrum to you. You want us to reach the same conclusion as you after we have examined the same data. But there is no logic to your conclusion. Feelings go on occurring despite the realization they will one day end. The causes of feeling good or bad remain the same. The feeling of meaningless doesn’t override every other feeling.
You say you truly reckoned, implying I did not. How do you know? How do you know I didn’t look square in the face of reality and kept on going? Where else would I go? We have the desire to live, and that’s wonderful in itself.
