Does anti-realism mean there is no external world?

From the “self is real” article (the second one),

However, there’s a dark side to this denial of the self, and it’s extremely troubling to those who think about this stuff deeply. If we have no self and no control over our thoughts and actions, then we are slaves to a billiard ball universe, trapped in a nihilistic nightmare in which we cannot change our fate or the fate of humanity. For those who take the hardline reductionist stance seriously, this can lead to cognitive dissonance, and in rarer cases, crippling depression or psychosis.

That’s you. It took me a few months to understand what you were saying, and since I don’t know you and can’t verify what you say, there are issues of trusting your information about yourself, but, at least, this paragraph describes what you have been saying. This is that point in a person’s journey that they sometimes realize they are not alone. I hope you take that as comforting. What you have been describing here is valid.

I know you don’t like the labels, but that’s how the rest of us deal with it. Instead of taking on the label, focus on the next sentence, “Thankfully, as with many ostensibly unresolvable philosophical quandaries, a synthesis emerges…” You see a quandary, and it bugs you.

I read Hofstadter’s work when it came out. I don’t know how much that helped me understand any of this, I remember it being pretty difficult to work through. I also took psychedelics (mentioned in the article), without the supervision of medical personnel at that time, also not sure how that helped or hurt me.

I can’t help with what cortical midline structures are or the rest of the science. Under the major heading “The self is real”, they say the self is an everyday experience, in other words, what you feel is not a lie. It’s something. It also says, “A robust sense of self is crucial for ideal human experience, as it can have significant effects on mental health and moral reasoning. It allows individuals to make sense of the world, take responsibility, make value-based decisions, and connect meaningfully with others.” It’s not a “pointless game” to ask the questions you ask.

Unfortunately, they don’t provide much help for getting yourself out of the quandary. There isn’t a simple answer to that, and the internet provides too much contradictory information, misinformation, and deliberately bad advice for it to be used as a tool. But the good news here is, the mental anguish caused by this difficult scientific topic is recognized. There are people who understand it.

I get what it’s saying about that and I’m trying to take it to heart. But on the other hand I’m finding it hard to ignore the other about it being just a fiction in my head. What if my experience of it isn’t real and that’s the trick? I’m not really sure what to do then…

More than that I’m not really sure how that no-self is supposed to help or if it’s really as they say it is. I mean…maybe it does remove suffering but is that all there is to life? If that were true then you could just commit suicide. It doesn’t really make sense to me.

I get it’s a hard question with no really easy solution, I just can’t really tell who’s right or not on this. A lot of people point to their own personal experience but that doesn’t really help clear things up very much, especially since what they do seems to contradict having “no self”. The last guy I asked just said it had to be experienced which just told me nothing.

And even though I said what I did about free will with that guy’s little thought experiment at the end of the first link I still can’t shake that “What if it’s true and I’m in denial”. Often I just don’t know what or how to think about all this, even after all I wrote for some reason I just don’t listen to myself and just agonize over it.

Picture your brain trying to make sense of all that “incoming” data. It’s all second hand as gathered by the senses and transported to the main processing areas.

But you must trust your senses. They are the result of billions of years of evolution for survival . How can an eagle see a mouse from a mile away?
That is how the eagle survives. It trusts its eysight and it’s really there!

An eagle can see a mouse on the ground from up to a mile away1235. This remarkable visual acuity aids them in hunting and ensures they can identify even small targets with precision and efficiency1.

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Funny enough someone I know on a forum said this about the brain, something else I don’t really have an answer for….

“ One could say, “I am referring to the question of what happens to a person after the brain ceases and when life —-the ability of cells to regenerate— ceases. In other words, “I” am my brain”

But the assumption that “I” am the brain brings up a number of hurdles, not the least of which is the question of who the brain actually belongs to.
I can’t say “it belongs to me” if the brain is me.

And I can’t very well say that my brain doesn’t belong to me.

And if I say that the brain doesn’t belong to anybody, then who is this “me” we are talking about taking or not taking rebirth?

And if I say that this brain belongs to itself, then I can’t call it “my brain”

Maybe I could say “I am brain”, so everything is nicely wrapped up as one sort of “mebrain” where I am my brain and
“I-it” owns “me-it” ???
Actually, that does not work either.”

That’s the thing I know for sure. I know that you see all the same things I do, that you read similar things, and you agonize over it and I don’t. I can’t change that.

That’s what I’m wondering about. How does this stuff not bug others? The quote I posted about the self offered me questions I cannot answer

Think of it from a biological, scientific perspective. It is still not fully understood why a moving dynamo creates a current of electricity, but what we do certainly know is that when that dynamo stops spinning the electrical current will cease. It makes sense, even if we don’t fully understand all the details.

Living biology creates bio-chemical electricity, it’s well studied.
It is the process within the biological body-brain that produces these currents and chemical cascades that ultimately get projected into your mind. It is a process that happens in real time, always racing towards the future.

When the body-brain dies and stops producing all those amazing folds within folds of constructive harmonic complexity of chemicals and structures and micro-electrical currents and whatnot such as the dance of microtubules creating a foundational structural integrity - why should it be any surprise that your consciousness expires as your body expires.

I spent most of my life thinking what a weird term for death, “expired” was - that is up until my death watch for my aged father. Hearing that last exhalation, then nothing, silence, stillness, my dad, but not my dad, a lifeless shadow, a corpse, where there once was a fascinating human. My next thought was and so the last page turns and the book of his life is finished.

Then sitting next to him soaking it in, I realized “expired” is exactly the correct word for that sort of death. He became a memory and it was good.

It’s a lot easier than going through life like a scared bunny looking over your shoulder for the devil who wants to devour your soul - or trying to kiss the ring of someone who seems more petty human, than God Almighty. The God Almighty that created this Earth through her, life and humans and all the rest, is so far beyond our childish minds, it’s not even funny. Oh but they take the charade so seriously. From my perspective that stuff feels like an illness.

Right because you can’t ignore your body!

It’s never, your brain alone.
Your brain is woven into your entire body, as learning about biology makes clear.

So long as a person has self-hatred happening for themselves and especially if it grows out of hating one’s own body and natural impulses, because of not conforming to others expectations, they are stuck in a living Hattie’s that doesn’t need to be.

But, one must muster the will to look themselves in the eyes, be honest, brutally honest with yourself, be serious about the questions you challenge yourself with, it’s not a game, it’s you’re one and only ride through life, to me that matters and the moment is worth living and glorying in. Even if some of them moments suck.

Seek and ye shall receive.

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Did you read their entire reasoning?

I mean…I can’t believe now I’m triggered by “my brain” and “ownership” just from reading that…great… as if my brain ain’t like glass already…

And yeah that just triggered me now too.

Of course you can. It’s a two way street. The brain IS you, therefore You belong to the brain. You and your brain belong to each other because if your brain dies , you die, and if you’re lost, your brain is lost. It’s an interdependent relationship.

Your brain has the computing power, you are at the controls.
Be good to your brain and it’ll be good to you.

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It does bug others.

Just not in the same way it bugs you.

Buddhism is an attempt at dealing with how people are “bugged” by the quandary of the questions of what it is to be human. All of the myths are attempts to address it. And so are the “answers” you are getting here, the ones about making your own meaning. We can’t answer the question either. Nor can we answer the question about how, for you, it makes your brain feel like glass, or all the things you say you feel.

The best I can do is say that your feelings are valid but your feelings aren’t logical conclusions. So my feelings are also valid. I feel pretty good about experiencing this mystery. I feel okay with not having answers. My feelings are not logical either. My conclusions can’t be verified against a standard of truth because I don’t know the truth and I’m pretty dang certain no one does. But, dang it, I can’t verify that either.

That seems to imply some soul though which might be an issue.

Or maybe I’m missing something.

Well the folks I asked on a Buddhist site are very nice and understanding, they’ve been really helpful so I sorta trust them on this.

I like Buddhism, I feel drawn to it, but my current way of doing it on my own isn’t helpful.

Someone on there said systems theory is similar to no self in the “West”: Systems theory in anthropology - Wikipedia

In that everything is connected and shapes everything else, and if that’s true then it doesn’t seem that shocking. We are the products of everything around us and before us, everything shapes everything else and nothing stands alone. In that sense I guess there is no essence or soul since one is always changing. But like…I knew that.

Maybe it’s their wording that makes it seem confusing. But I feel like maybe it’s not what I think it is, I can’t tell. I just can’t shake the sense I’m missing something here. Not in a bad way…but more like I’m one step removed from getting what they mean.

In one sense a “soul” would be a problem because that means you’re locked into whatever that is and you can’t change anything. One of my favorite movies is Princess Mononoke because it’s about nature and the connectedness but neither side is good or evil, they’re just trying to live and that creates conflict. Avatar the Last Airbender is about that too.

Yes, you’re missing the fact that when your brain dies, You die,
You are an emergent property of all the brain’s “self-referential” activities. “You” are an emergent “field” generated by your brain’s neural network, a type of hologram.

To illustrate the concept, have a look at the field a high power electrical network generates.


Now imagine that these transmission lines are transporting a variety of EM signals of rather than a stream of electrons of the same power and frequency.
Can you imagine all those bulbs creating a holographic image that is experienced internally by the brain’s neural network?

Consider a rainbow, where hydrogen in the atmosphere acts as frequency translators and a wonderful rainbow emerges.


Emergent artificially created holograms within a naturally emergent brain’s neural hologram.

David Bohm proposed that the universe itself is a hologram.

Holonomic brain theory

Holonomic brain theory is a branch of neuroscience investigating the idea that consciousness is formed by quantum effects in or between brain cells. Holonomic refers to representations in a Hilbert phase space defined by both spectral and space-time coordinates. Holonomic brain theory is opposed by traditional neuroscience, which investigates the brain’s behavior by looking at patterns of neurons and the surrounding chemistry.
Holonomic brain theory - Wikipedia

I guess that makes sense, maybe.

I’m still trying to work out the systems theory the guy quoted to me along with whatever the hell “non-unitary” subject means but I’m not getting much.

Here’s some of it:

" Since the European Enlightenment, the Western philosophy has placed the individual, as an indispensable category, at the center of the universe. René Descartes’ famous aphorism, ‘I think therefore I am’ proves that a person is a rational subject whose feature of thinking brings the human into existence. The Cartesian subject, therefore, is a scientific individual who imposes mental concepts on things in order to control the nature or simply what exists outside his mind. This subject-centered view of the universe has reduced the complex nature of the universe. One of the biggest challenges for system theory is thus to displace or de-center the Cartesian subject as a center of a universe and as a rational being. The idea is to make human beings not a supreme entity but rather to situate them as any other being in the universe. The humans are not thinking Cartesian subject but they dwell alongside nature. This brings back the human to its original place and introduces nature in the equation. The systems theory, therefore, encourages a non-unitary subject in opposition to a Cartesian subject."

" Once the Cartesian individual is dissolved, the social sciences will move away from a subject-centered view of the world. The challenge is then how to non-represent empirical reality without reducing the complexity of a system. To put it simply, instead of representing things by us let the things speak through us. These questions led materialists philosophers such as Deleuze and Guattari to develop a “science” for understanding reality without imposing our mental projections. The way they encourage is instead of throwing conceptual ideas we should do tracing. Tracing requires one to connect disparate assemblages or appendages not into a unified center but rather into a rhizome or an open system."

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/107780049600200203

" Clandinin and Connelly (1994) raise the problematic issue of the use of childhood memories as part of our research texts. They rightly ask, Whose voice is being heard? If an “adult [is] interpreting the childhood experience” they ask, is it the voice of the adult or the child that we hear? They would argue that unaided by texts from childhood or corroborating memories, the narrative “expresses a current voice rather than a historical voice” (p. 424). In other words, we use childhood memories with the understanding that what is at stake is not the truthfulness of a childhood memory but the meaning the memory has for the adult narrating it. For Olivia, the memory of this conflicted event is a critical aspect of her sense of self and has an important place in her life history narratives."

The childhood memories is an interesting food for thought but I’m not sure how right it is.

Unfortunately that journal is the only source for the definition so I’m not sure how accurate this is.

This is something from PhD level, looks like women’s studies. The average non-academic is not going to “work out” this. It could be complete garbage but I would need a few years of study to begin to grapple with it. So, yeah, I’m sure you’re “not getting much”.

Yes, but You are not the center of The Universe, You are the center of Your Universe.

As I said before, you are the God of your biome. But never forget that your physical existence is dependent on the health of your biome. Tend to the biome and it will reward You with a long and rich life among all other biomes, big and small.

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Or put it another way:

Descartes lived, in a pre-scientific era, before we knew anything of substance regarding the our biology.

With the advance of modern science we realize that is buns backward, we’d do much better with another summary statement:

“I am. Therefore I think!”

Meaning we are evolved biological creatures, it is the combination of body - brain - interacting with environment/circumstance that creates our sense of self and mind.

As it stands “I am therefore I think” is simply a reinforcement of Ego in utter disregard for what created us. And no it wasn’t a God that created us, which was the prevailing mindset in his day. (well, guess it must still be among billions.)

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When the quoted text said “Descarte proved” I cringed a bit.

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And what do you make out of the article where the guy said science proved there is no self.

I don’t have time now to read all the articles you put up. It sounds like a headline written by a non-scientist.