In mankind’s time on earth and right up until today there stands out one common element in mankind’s history. And that is “afterlife".
Even for none believers in religion, extended life seems to have a driving force.
Hell, who would not want to live forever or a bit longer?
So the question comes to mind. Why is that not talked about and researched? I mean ask any religion person today about heaven and you will get different answers, as expected, because it is not very well covered in any of the religious texts.
The older stories tell us of the many levels of heaven, then there was the first man to visit heaven and return. Then there was the first man to visit both heaven and hell and return. And this happened long before Christianity.
Yet heaven being one of the reason for today’s religion. It is one of the least discussed topics. There is a lot of discussion and time spent on what it takes to get to heaven. And people do not think twice at telling you what heaven is, and then admit their thinking is not backed by any religious text.
Back when people believed in the eleven heavens, it was before there were deities. So you don’t need a god to have a heaven or have a religion.
Heaven can be located at any of the planets, even the sun. Or an island in the sea, or in the clouds above.
The Egyptians understood your body was need at heaven, yet the spirit left the tomb though a small hole to get to heaven. It is not understood if your body goes to heaven or just your spirit. And if it is just your spirit, what is your spirit going to do for eternity? Just float around in darkness for eternity? That’s sad.
And why would you need your horse or servants and wives at heaven if it is just your spirit floating around?
I learned a long time ago that the driving force behind religion was not about God. It was about after life and heaven. Now I have come to the conclusion that the main driving force is not even about heaven. It is about not wanting to die. And if you do not die or die and then go into afterlife then you need some place to go. So is religion guiding man, or just fore filling a common desire of mankind?
There may not be a correct answer, just how the readers feel about the reason for religion.
It’s fulfilling a desire.
And lots of people discuss the afterlife. I don’t get what you’re saying for most of this post. Do you mean why no scientific research?
It's fulfilling a desire. And lots of people discuss the afterlife. I don't get what you're saying for most of this post. Do you mean why no scientific research?Mankind has had afterlife without religion and afterlife without God. Yet, people know very little about the afterlife. So, “It’s fulfilling a desire" is what I am seeing too. I do not care about scientific research. What I am saying is that people really know every little about afterlife. And that is subject they should understand the most. So why do people follow something they understand very little about, unless it is a human desire?
I think we’re so used to existence that the thought of non-existence is frightening so people make up stories that help them avoid thinking they will become non-existent. What’s funny is that when I was younger death/non-existence didn’t even enter my mind. However, now at 83 I realize that the probability of me living another 15 years is less than 1%. Since I’m still having fun, the ideas of losing that is mildly annoying. But I realize that I, as all of us are, am an extremely short time phenomenon.
While I’ll be gone, I like to think that similar to a distant star that has gone out, my light may still shine in a few people’s memories for a while, and that during my life I’ve contributed a bit. So, when I die, tough. It’s not my problem, it’s the problem of the others who won’t get to appreciate my humor. :lol:
Occam
Another thing is that I love telling humorous or interesting anecdotes and jokes that occurred in my life, but I’m running out of ones that I haven’t told everyone. I think I’d get really pissed if I a) couldn’t tell them anymore, or b) always have someone say, “Oh we’ve heard that before.”
Even if I could retain my health and energy, I think I’d get extremely bored living much more than a hundred.
Occam
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120889/]
Absolutely one of my favorite movies, an epic tale, awesome mythology. It responds to that “I’d be bored” thing by positing that we have expanded powers to create in the afterlife. We would be aware of and could interact with the living in a very limited way. This is not just woo-woo, it deals with lose and depression and family.
One can only imagine what science may be capable of in the future. Science might be able to retrieve the knowledge and memories from your brain and transform them to someone else’s brain. Or store you brain data on disk until your new body is ready in the lab. :lol:
The only phenomenon after life is death–complete cessation of consciousness and body function. There is NO evidence that there is any life after death, only wishful thinking.
Lois
When I die, I’ll be dead. The bacteria and worms will have a feast. Once my components are broken down, the plants will have their turn. Animals will eat the plants and some of my atoms will be incorporated into their flesh. I came from stardust, I will return as worm food. It is what I have done between those years that will matter most to me. I hope to leave the world just a little better than I inherited it, but that appears to be unlikely. I hope those I leave will have kind thoughts and memories of me. That is enough afterlife for me.
To me, dead is dead, but that being said I don’t mind if legitimate science studies the possibility of an afterlife. Physics telsl us energy cannot be destroyed so in a way the energy in you body goes on but in no way does that mean “you” as a being will go on.
A trick I have learned.
I have a lot of highly religious friends. And with what’s going on in the world news today in the Ukraine, Egypt and Israel. Just talking about those countries, zeroes the discussion in on religion. And as most religious discussions go, the subject of your belief in faith comes up.
When I see that happening, there is a trick I have learned that can back them down and want to get off the subject of religion. And that trick is to ask them how heaven works and just out of curiosity where is heaven located and do you have a body in heaven? Just what does the bible tell us about heaven?
Nothing seems to make a religious person want to shut up and question his faith more than questions about heaven and the afterlife.
The only phenomenon after life is death--complete cessation of consciousness and body function. There is NO evidence that there is any life after death, only wishful thinking. LoisDo you think that this wishful thinking is the driving force that makes mankind create religions? Is this wishful thinking coming from the genes of mankind? After all it has been around an awful long time. Long before god and religions were around, as shown in the Red Ochre burials.
Nothing seems to make a religious person want to shut up and question his faith more than questions about heaven and the afterlife.I'm sure that works some of the time. For people who haven't thought too much about their faith, or those who have but depend on you not asking certain questions. Then there are those who have a very specific idea of what heaven is and are so happy you asked. I have a sister-in-law who is hooked on Donnie Burpo. I'm guessing you don't live in a small town in the Midwest.
I do recall when I was much younger, having a similar heaven/afterlife argument with a newly wed couple of strong christians, and asking them if one could still have and enjoy orgasms in heaven. When they answered, “No, that’s an earthly pleasure”, I asked why we would all be punished by being denied that pleasure forever. No response, bu it was fun.
Occam
I do recall when I was much younger, having a similar heaven/afterlife argument with a newly wed couple of strong christians, and asking them if one could still have and enjoy orgasms in heaven. When they answered, "No, that's an earthly pleasure", I asked why we would all be punished by being denied that pleasure forever. No response, bu it was fun. OccamNo sex in heaven, who in the hell would want to go there! Yea, I had a girlfriend that was turned off from religion when she was told that all you are in heaven is a floating spirit. :lol:
Nothing seems to make a religious person want to shut up and question his faith more than questions about heaven and the afterlife.I'm sure that works some of the time. For people who haven't thought too much about their faith, or those who have but depend on you not asking certain questions. Then there are those who have a very specific idea of what heaven is and are so happy you asked. I have a sister-in-law who is hooked on Donnie Burpo. I'm guessing you don't live in a small town in the Midwest. Most of the people I know including several preachers, know very little about religion, but know a hell of lot about faith. My son on the other hand is also a preacher and he knows quite a lot, thank god for the old man card when talking with him. :smirk: And sure would not try that on someone with your knowledge. But then I would not have to because you go much deeper in your posts than blind faith. I had to look up that Donnie Burpo on the internet. They say a movie is going to be made. Johnny Depp is going to star in it. So it should get a lot of media.
The movie is already out, and I should have said “Colton” Burpo. Johnny Depp isn’t in it, that was a joke on somebody’s part I think.
Also, people rarely take the time to find out what my “knowledge” is. It’s usually more like, “do you believe X?” and if my answer is “No” then they decide exactly what kind of person I am and begin preaching to me whatever truth they think I need to hear.
Another thing is that I love telling humorous or interesting anecdotes and jokes that occurred in my life, but I'm running out of ones that I haven't told everyone. I think I'd get really pissed if I a) couldn't tell them anymore, or b) always have someone say, "Oh we've heard that before." Even if I could retain my health and energy, I think I'd get extremely bored living much more than a hundred. OccamThere are no old jokes or stories in heaven, Occam. :-P
Interesting posts. That is something I like about this forum - - informative posters.
Another thing is that I love telling humorous or interesting anecdotes and jokes that occurred in my life, but I'm running out of ones that I haven't told everyone. I think I'd get really pissed if I a) couldn't tell them anymore, or b) always have someone say, "Oh we've heard that before." Even if I could retain my health and energy, I think I'd get extremely bored living much more than a hundred. OccamThere are no old jokes or stories in heaven, Occam. :-P At my in-laws' family reunion, I only hear old jokes and repeat stories. Is that hell?