DougC please do strive to avoid overly heated rhetoric. While we do try to moderate such rhetoric with a light hand, it is in fact against the rules and so engaging in it intentionally is to be avoided. Doing so continually can lead to banning. To quote our rule:
Generally speaking, inflammatory, hyperbolic or overly emotive rhetoric is the sign of a troll and should be avoided on the CFI Forum. This community exists, first and foremost, to foster inquiry. Inquiry does not flourish in an atmosphere of heated rhetoric, mutual vilification or recrimination.
So what is the scale of the Russian interference in the legitimate and peaceful transfer of power in the US and the perceived threat that might be posed by the nation that attacked the US this way.
First off we know from multiple sources that the Russians were at work to disrupt the 2016 US General Election long before it was held.
They were in the DNC servers for a year before they were detected.
News of the hack of the Democratic National Committee first broke in mid-June. That’s when Crowdstrike, a firm that analyzes threats to network security, revealed that the DNC had called it in to inspect the party’s servers, where it found “two separate Russian intelligence-affiliated adversaries present in the DNC network." Crowdstrike released a comprehensive report of its findings on June 14, which accompanied a Washington Post article detailing the attacks. One of the hacking groups, Crowdstrike found, had access to the DNC servers for almost a year.
And although the republican presidential candidate was briefed throughout the campaign he refused to acknowledge the threat and we now know that members of the Trump campaign team had extensive and constant contact with the Russian government and intelligence services throughout the campaign, something that high level Trump staffers have since lied about. In Mike Flynns case his contacts included repeated conversations with the Russian Ambassador to the US on the day that US sanctions were imposed on Russia by the Obama administration for the illegal attempts to disrupt the US election in the interests of the Putin government. Keep in mind the Obama White House was acting to protect the US and the Constitution from a hostile foreign attack, aiding the power making that attack as Flynn almost certainly did is treason.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN14X1YX
Michael Flynn, President-elect Donald Trump's choice for national security adviser, held five phone calls with Russia's ambassador to Washington on the day the United States retaliated for Moscow's interference in the U.S. presidential election, three sources familiar with the matter said.
The calls occurred between the time the Russian embassy was told about U.S. sanctions and the announcement by Russian President Vladimir Putin that he had decided against reprisals, said the sources. They spoke on condition of anonymity, citing internal U.S. government deliberations about the issue.
The calls raised fresh questions among some U.S. officials about contacts between Trump's advisers and Russian officials at a time when U.S. intelligence agencies contend that Moscow waged a multifaceted campaign of hacking and other actions to boost Republican Trump's election chances against Democrat Hillary Clinton.
The current US Attorney General Sessions also lied under oath to Congress that he had no contact with the Russian government during last year's presidential campaign when he also met with the Russian Ambassador at that time. As members of Congress also take an oath to defend the Constitution on which all authority and freedom in the US is based, preventing them from doing their duty in protecting the US can also be considered treason.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/02/jeff-sessions-russian-ambassador-trump-campaign
Donald Trump’s attorney general, Jeff Sessions, twice spoke with the Russian ambassador to the United States during the presidential campaign.
The Washington Post, citing justice department officials, first reported that Sessions met with the Russian ambassador, Sergey Kislyak, once in September 2016, when US intelligence officials were investigating Russian interference in the presidential election, and once in the summer of that year.
Other members of the Trump campaign and White House staff have also had repeated contacts with a power hostile to the US while it was engaging in a direct attack on the selection of a legitimate government as has been established by US intelligence services and the previous legitimate Executive branch. This includes Kushner, Manafort and Page.
This in association and in the aid of a power that has presented the greatest threat ever encountered by the US in the presence of weapons of mass destruction that have been aimed at the US for decades and new systems that will vastly increase the strategic capabilities of a Russian government that also has extensive and effective cyber-warfare capabilities as can be seen by its placing in the Oval Office a man that is likely largely under their control.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/10/fbi-chief-given-dossier-by-john-mccain-alleging-secret-trump-russia-contacts
Senator John McCain passed documents to the FBI director, James Comey, last month alleging secret contacts between the Trump campaign and Moscow and that Russian intelligence had personally compromising material on the president-elect himself.
I will tone down the rhetoric as requested by the administration here but will say you'd have to be profoundly naive to not be deeply concerned about what is unfolding in the US right now if you care about the nation at all as I do. Some of my family arrived in Virginia when it was still a colony and many of my relatives have shed their blood to defend the US Constitution some of them fighting the same nation that is now attacking the US again.
Not only is there an alarming degree of smoke here, there are flames licking at the Constitution...
So what is the scale of the Russian interference in the legitimate and peaceful transfer of power in the US and the perceived threat that might be posed by the nation that attacked the US this way.
First off we know from multiple sources that the Russians were at work to disrupt the 2016 US General Election long before it was held.
They were in the DNC servers for a year before they were detected.
https://www.wired.com/2016/07/heres-know-russia-dnc-hack/
News of the hack of the Democratic National Committee first broke in mid-June. That’s when Crowdstrike, a firm that analyzes threats to network security, revealed that the DNC had called it in to inspect the party’s servers, where it found “two separate Russian intelligence-affiliated adversaries present in the DNC network." Crowdstrike released a comprehensive report of its findings on June 14, which accompanied a Washington Post article detailing the attacks. One of the hacking groups, Crowdstrike found, had access to the DNC servers for almost a year.
And although the republican presidential candidate was briefed throughout the campaign he refused to acknowledge the threat and we now know that members of the Trump campaign team had extensive and constant contact with the Russian government and intelligence services throughout the campaign, something that high level Trump staffers have since lied about. In Mike Flynns case his contacts included repeated conversations with the Russian Ambassador to the US on the day that US sanctions were imposed on Russia by the Obama administration for the illegal attempts to disrupt the US election in the interests of the Putin government. Keep in mind the Obama White House was acting to protect the US and the Constitution from a hostile foreign attack, aiding the power making that attack as Flynn almost certainly did is treason.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-idUSKBN14X1YX
Michael Flynn, President-elect Donald Trump's choice for national security adviser, held five phone calls with Russia's ambassador to Washington on the day the United States retaliated for Moscow's interference in the U.S. presidential election, three sources familiar with the matter said.
The calls occurred between the time the Russian embassy was told about U.S. sanctions and the announcement by Russian President Vladimir Putin that he had decided against reprisals, said the sources. They spoke on condition of anonymity, citing internal U.S. government deliberations about the issue.
The calls raised fresh questions among some U.S. officials about contacts between Trump's advisers and Russian officials at a time when U.S. intelligence agencies contend that Moscow waged a multifaceted campaign of hacking and other actions to boost Republican Trump's election chances against Democrat Hillary Clinton.
The current US Attorney General Sessions also lied under oath to Congress that he had no contact with the Russian government during last year's presidential campaign when he also met with the Russian Ambassador at that time. As members of Congress also take an oath to defend the Constitution on which all authority and freedom in the US is based, preventing them from doing their duty in protecting the US can also be considered treason.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/02/jeff-sessions-russian-ambassador-trump-campaign
Donald Trump’s attorney general, Jeff Sessions, twice spoke with the Russian ambassador to the United States during the presidential campaign.
The Washington Post, citing justice department officials, first reported that Sessions met with the Russian ambassador, Sergey Kislyak, once in September 2016, when US intelligence officials were investigating Russian interference in the presidential election, and once in the summer of that year.
Other members of the Trump campaign and White House staff have also had repeated contacts with a power hostile to the US while it was engaging in a direct attack on the selection of a legitimate government as has been established by US intelligence services and the previous legitimate Executive branch. This includes Kushner, Manafort and Page.
This in association and in the aid of a power that has presented the greatest threat ever encountered by the US in the presence of weapons of mass destruction that have been aimed at the US for decades and new systems that will vastly increase the strategic capabilities of a Russian government that also has extensive and effective cyber-warfare capabilities as can be seen by its placing in the Oval Office a man that is likely largely under their control.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/10/fbi-chief-given-dossier-by-john-mccain-alleging-secret-trump-russia-contacts
Senator John McCain passed documents to the FBI director, James Comey, last month alleging secret contacts between the Trump campaign and Moscow and that Russian intelligence had personally compromising material on the president-elect himself.
I will tone down the rhetoric as requested by the administration here but will say you'd have to be profoundly naive to not be deeply concerned about what is unfolding in the US right now if you care about the nation at all as I do. Some of my family arrived in Virginia when it was still a colony and many of my relatives have shed their blood to defend the US Constitution some of them fighting the same nation that is now attacking the US again.
Not only is there an alarming degree of smoke here, there are flames licking at the Constitution...
Unfortunately you are speaking at a coddled, lazy, apathetic nation.
A round of laughing at the late night news/comedy shows and they're good to go.
Unfortunately you are speaking at a coddled, lazy, apathetic nation.
A round of laughing at the late night news/comedy shows and they're good to go.
No, I'm speaking in the defense of a nation that while it is not perfect has represented the ideals of freedom and openness far better than the nation that is now attempting to destroy it.
America was never intended to operate with perfect efficiency in one cause, and while this may create serious vulnerabilities that has left the nation open to attack in the past, it also allows a coordination of support and effort when Americans are finally roused to action as Japan and Germany discovered in 1940s and the Russian government is going to find out now.
Hitler also thought that Americans were decadent and weak until B-17s were bombing the heart out of German cities and hundred of thousands of Allied soldiers many of them with American equipment were crushing his thousands year Reich to dust.
Donald Trump is not greater than the US Constitution and the nation that is based on it and neither is Putin. Both men are about to find out what that really means.
Let's look at the actual threat that Russia represents to the west.
Constant cyber-warfare against the west at all levels, Putin just successfully attacked the US political system by placing his man in the highest office.
There is zero chance or evidence Trump is a Russian saboteur. And constant cyber warfare? I don't think you know what that means.
While Russia does spy on us and hack us, we do the same. So does every nation with the capabilities. So there's no legal or moral cause for declaring war because of that.
Support for groups attacking the US like Al Qaeda, there is evidence that Russia did in fact train top terrorists like Ayman Al-Zawahiri who planned the 9/11 attacks.
Evidence is that Al-Zawahiri was interacting with Russian intelligence, being trained (whatever that means) or being some sort of manchurian candidate is pure speculation. Its worth noting that, like all the worlds powerful nations, Russia has been meddling in mideastern affairs for decades; and they've long had a muslim terrorist problem at their southern border.
So how would a potential Russian attack against the US take place. Well first they would likely give instructions to monkey boy in the Oval Office to stand down key defense systems and weaken electronic defenses. Then large scale cyber-warfare would take down as much of the US civilian and military command as possible. And then the missiles would fly.
You'd have to be a fucking moron to not see how dangerous the situation has become for the US now...
Hitler also thought that Americans were decadent and weak until B-17s were bombing the heart out of German cities and hundred of thousands of Allied soldiers many of them with American equipment were crushing his thousands year Reich to dust.
With your views on Russia, you must be angered to know they did most of the work defeating Germany.
Donald Trump is not greater than the US Constitution and the nation that is based on it and neither is Putin. Both men are about to find out what that really means.
Of course he's not greater. We saw that when the courts limited his immigration order.
When it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Putin government has placed its own man in the White House in a direct attack against the US Constitution and system of free and open government, should the US respond by declaring war on Russia?
What Putin did to the US is a de facto act of war, should the US respond by making this state of war official?
It will never happen as long as Trrump is in office.
When it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Putin government has placed its own man in the White House in a direct attack against the US Constitution and system of free and open government, should the US respond by declaring war on Russia?
What Putin did to the US is a de facto act of war, should the US respond by making this state of war official?
It will never happen as long as Trrump is in office.
No it won't and on reflection it's not a good idea anyway. There are other far more effective ways to combat the threat represented by the Putin government, one of which is to rebuild genuine democratic rule in the west.
the US blowing up NORD stream pipelines is a declaration of war of Russia as well as Germany.
Seymour Hersh revealed that:
In June 2022, under the cover of a military training exercise, the US Navy placed explosives on the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines carrying natural gas from Russia to Germany, which were then remotely detonated on September 26.
The operation was ordered by US President Joe Biden and planned by Secretary of State Antony Blinken, Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland and National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan.
Planning for the attack began in December 2021, months before the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
I would like to hope otherwise but believe Elena has unfortunately summed up the mindset & agenda of our great “leaders” down to a tee. I would like to know more about “… the war with China at the hands of Russia.” : it’s something I had hitherto not considered.
Elena Panina, director of the Institute for International Strategic Studies:
“Davos 2024 is preparing an ultimatum for Russia.
The current forum of globalists in Davos should be directly called a coordination meeting of all enemies of Russia who have gathered to discuss further actions against our country. We are confronted by an enemy superior in strength, and his ability to mobilize against us is far from exhausted. Now they are jointly preparing five lines of defense. And they believe that when the RF Armed Forces run into them, time will begin to work against Russia. And then the moment of an ultimatum will come, which can be announced in the form of a proposal for negotiations. And now in Davos there is a discussion going on about the general position and timing of announcing such an ultimatum.
The conditions have already been announced: surrender, withdrawal of troops to the 1991 borders, reparations, Putin’s resignation, new presidential and parliamentary elections under the control of the West, its control over our resources and nuclear weapons, the transformation of the Russian Federation into a confederation (a transitional form of the complete dismemberment of the country at 7-11 “republics” under Western protectorate) and the war with China at the hands of Russia.
The West will not accept any other terms of negotiations, even if it loses the war in Ukraine. The mentality of Western elites does not include accepting defeat, no matter how obvious it may be. They will retreat and fight for a break that allows them to take revenge. They will not make any compromises with Russia, no matter what the balance of power. The West also bears costs, but they have not become fatal for it, since they are redistributed within the West in favor of the United States. The costs of vassals for the United States are not critical. The war even allows Washington to accelerate the desovereignization of Europe. Therefore, there can be no way out of the war through negotiations with Russia.
Now the West is preparing two versions of an ultimatum for us: hard and soft. Hard - without negotiations, soft - with negotiations. But the essence does not change: this is an ultimatum. This is exactly what is being discussed in Davos."