Crime against humanity and genocide

That’s interesting, but your approach is not reasonable. Why can’t all of these be war crimes? Why is talking about the current one wrong? It’s nearly impossible to prosecute war criminals, what i want is for the current killing to stop. I have children to care for and bills to pay. How is my voice going to get Bush in jail or change what the nightly news reports?

I speak up all the time. I’m not advocating non involvement. But you are asking for something that didn’t make sense to me.

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Then my posts weren’t directed at you Lausten, we don’t have a disagreement (for once!).

Not quite. The weapons Russia was staging ib Cuba were offensive weapons.
Membership in NATO does not necessarily involve weapon placement at all.
It is a defensive treaty and promise that an attack against a member nation is an attack against all.

NATO has never attacked or invaded a country. There is nothing to gain.
NATO is not a country. It is an international cooperative.

Russia had nothing to fear from NATO. Russia’ s neighbors would have had less to fear from Russia. Russia is the offending country trying to expand its territory!!!

Russia is the BAD GUY , just like NAZI Germany was the BAD GUY.
There is no excuse for invading and taking another country.
Never has been , never will be!!!

A nuclear weapon situated within easy striking distance of a country is an offensive weapon yes. Recall that the entire Cuban crisis too was precipitated by the US deploying nukes to Turkey and attempting an invasion of Cuba, this detail is often overlooked when discussing the crisis.

Several NATO member states have US nukes based there, these are Belgium, Germany, Netherlands, Italy and Turkey - making these nations possible targets in a preemptive strike by Russia.

NATO attacked Yugoslavia in 1999, that was not a results of Yugoslavia attacking a NATO member, NATO bombed the Chinese embassy there and bombed a TV station, contrast that with the sympathy shown to Ukraine when Russia also took out a TV station recently.

Russia saw NATO used in the dismantling of Yugoslavia, a better example of the threat it represents would be hard to find. That attack was against international law (no UN resolution authorized NATO).

There’s always “no excuse” for a country acting in self interest when it isn’t us or our allies, this is the standard propaganda.

Tell me, if California were to secede and later formed an alliance with China to protect it from the US and there was talk of Chinese nukes being based in California, would the US be wrong to see that as a threat? would they be justified in invading California if there requests for neutrality were ignored by California and China?

NATO is a huge threat, consider what this man has to say:

Andrew Bacevich, president and co-founder of the antiwar think tank Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, retired colonel, Vietnam War veteran, professor emeritus of international relations and history at Boston University, author of a number of books, including his most recent, just out, called After the Apocalypse: America’s Role in a World Transformed . His most recent pieces include one headlined “U.S. Can’t Absolve Itself of Responsibility for Putin’s Ukraine Invasion.”

He’s a retired colonel.

The bottom line here is that Russia was able to act against the West and has nothing militarily to fear, this is the first time in a longtime that there’s been a war that we weren’t in the driving set of. There’s very little we can do, there is tension within NATO too, some members are unhappy. Russia could use a tactical nuke against a member state, don’t assume that can’t happen, this is a war that we are not in control of all we can do is sit and watch and apply sanctions, not a lot else.

This is not about Putin either, if he were killed tomorrow the war would not cease, NATO has pushed too far, anyone who has any real knowledge of the history of NATO can see this. Take a look at NATO expansion since the Berlin wall came down, also look at the state department transcripts of conversations between Russia and the US where Russia said plainly that if NATO were to expand eastward then Russia would start to mass troops and nuclear weapons along its border, I mean they said this years and years ago yet we still did it!

Not quite…

April 17, 1961
For the next two years, officials at the U.S. State Department and the CIA attempted to remove Castro. Finally, on April 17, 1961 , the CIA launched what its leaders believed would be the definitive strike: a full-scale invasion of Cuba by 1,400 American-trained Cubans who had fled their homes when Castro took over.Mar 30, 2020

Bay of Pigs Invasion - Definition, Outcome & JFK - HISTORY

https://www.history.com › topics › cold-war › bay-of-pigs…
](Bay of Pigs Invasion - Definition, Outcome & JFK - HISTORY

This was not an attempt to annex Cuba by the US. It was a US assisted attempt by Cubans to retake their own country.

You see " a full-scale invasion of Cuba by" yet you just wrote above “There is no excuse for invading and taking another country.” see? rules for us and different rules for them! To say this was not a US invasion is an abuse of language.

Besides Russia has not invaded Ukraine, yes the western press describes it that way but Russia describes it as a special operation.

There was no attempt to annex the country by the US.
It was Cubans trying to remove a Cuban dictator of their own country.

Russia is trying to conquer and annex Ukraine into the Russian dictatorship. Just like Hitler tried to conquer all of Europe.

You cannot compare the Cuban situation with what’s happening now. One can compare this to the 4 million displaced Ukrainians that will forever try to retake their own country if Putin replaces Zelensky.

Nothing to do with “dictators” at all. Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship, Saddam Hussein was a dictator and friend of the US until he broke ranks and went into Kuwait, Suharto was a dictator who received military aid from us. There’s a long list of “dictators” we’ve supported, would you like me to show it to you?

So no, try again, it was absolutely not because Castro was a “dictator” so what do you think the real reason was now that I’ve explained that to you?

Your explanation is a “category error”

I have explained to you that it was Cubans , not Americans that wanted to retake the country they were forced to leave. Read the link I provided.
America does not want an American Cuban state. They want a friendly Cuba as neighbor.

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" to retake one’s country "

Cuba was not occupied by a foreign power !

Before Castro came to power, Cuba was led by Batista, a dictator in the hands of US mafia.

Castro overthrew him with the support of most Cubans. He nationalized the goods of the mafia and the US government did not accept that.

The only people able to help Cuba were Russia. Castro turned to them.

If Cuba invasion was an essay to retake the isle, it was mostly for the benefits of the mafia.

[quote=“morgankane01, post:30, topic:9336”]
" to retake one’s country "

Cuba was not occupied by a foreign power !

Before Castro came to power, Cuba was led by Batista, a dictator in the hands of US mafia.

Castro overthrew him with the support of most Cubans. He nationalized the goods of the mafia and the US government did not accept that.

The only people able to help Cuba were Russia. Castro turned to them.

Yes, and Castro’s dictatorial methods displaced millions of Cubans. It is those Cubans, who were given asylum by the US, who wanted to take back their country.

If Cuba invasion was an essay to retake the isle, it was mostly for the benefits of the mafia.

No it was mostly for the benefit of the Cubans who had lost their country to communism.

Cuban exodus

The Cuban exodus is the mass emigration of Cubans from the island of Cuba after the Cuban Revolution of 1959. Throughout the exodus millions of Cubans from diverse social positions within Cuban society became disillusioned with life in Cuba and decided to emigrate in various emigration waves. [1][2][3]
Cuban exodus - Wikipedia

The US aided in a coup and not the first time we’ve done so. We like to install governments of our choosing, if that’s not clear would you like me to show you evidence?

As you say “and the US government did not accept that” which is the very same argument from Putin. The Russian government will not accept Ukraine joining NATO, hence the conflict, not sure “write4u” grasps this point.

I have not said that the US is blameless in all cases.

Oh, I grasp the point, but you are committing a category error. No American president has installed himself as head of a foreign country.
Russian heads of state do. Stalin, Putin. (Just like Hitler)
Putin just annexes the country into Russia, so that he becomes head of state of Ukraine. Difference!

He has declared a “final solution” for Ukraine. A total obliteration of the Ukrainian culture and nationality. Ukraine will become Russia in the future. It’s called genocide.

You just do not see the greater picture. It’s called myopia! You want gratuitous ad hominem?

NATO is a defensive treaty and promise that an attack against a member nation is an attack against all.

Actually that was response to Hugo, I know our hands are not clean, but being blasé about what Russia is doing, or normalizing the slaughter of innocents and Scorched Earth of infrastructure is disgusting, and justifying it is plain vicious insane.

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But its fine to be blasé about what Saudi Arabia is doing in Yemen? There’s nothing special about Ukraine, what is special is that the war does not serve western geopolitical interests, that’s all, this is the only reason the press and media in the west are giving this 100 times the coverage they are to say Yemen or Palestine, its rank hypocrisy and frankly an obscenity to single out one set of victims over all the many others.

None of it is fine!
It’s a bunch of super rich spoiled brats playing big dick games in utter sociopathic disregard for the rest of society.

Same as it ever was? How far back do you want to go, how about to the discovery of oil. But how’s any of that going to change what’s happening today?

It’s all just gotten too big, we’re outgrowing our stage and there’s nothing new on the horizon.

So what do you want Hugo?
Sure, there is plenty of guilt to go around for everyone. It all sucks, it’s all a failure and nukes actually could be flying thank’s to that madman Putin, not that there aren’t plenty of madmen behind those weapons, and so on and so forth. So now what?

Hugo, got any suggestions?

(sorry about that Write)

You know, I browsed through a number of news websites from South Africa and couldn’t find One Story about Ukraine … or Yemen. The Nerve Of Them!!

Of COURSE Western countries and media pay more attention to …
(wait for it)
Western Countries!!!