Controlled Shrinking of Economies a Better Bet to Slow Climate Change Tha

@sabolina

that’s a disgusting allegation.

Disgusting allegation? It’s true, you do not know Native American culture. You just compared N.A. culture to petaphiles. Now that is a disgusting allegation and it has no truth to it.

I am talking about your book morals and you know it.

My book morals? What book are we talking about? How can you judge my book morals when we haven’t been discussing a book?

What’s the moral of the story in you bringing up native indians thanking the animal before after it’s killed?

There’s where you don’t understand the culture or that it’s not in a book. It’s a way of life for them.

2nd try. Can you steel man my points about the dairy and egg industry?

Steel man? What is a steel man? Secondly, I did address your points about the dairy and egg industry. You are attempting to group all farmers into one and insist they are all alike. I even gave you a link to humane farmers and if you had even browsed through either link you’d see I answered you with points which contradicted what you were saying about ALL farmers. See post #346197. While there are humane practices, it isn’t as massive as PETA makes it out to be. Your link to PETA is only propaganda and pseudoscience, because they are an Animal Rights Extremist group that associates with terrorist like ALF, so you lost points, if we are keeping score.

And as far as cows needing to be milked, yes they do. Anyone who knows anything about cows knows this. Again, PETA is pseudoscience and propaganda. It doesn’t harm the cow to milk her and it doesn’t harm the calf to milk the mother either. No one is taking milk away from the calf. As for taking the calf away from the mother before it’s even had a chance to nurse and get colostrum that would be inhumane and humane farmers, with knowledge about cattle don’t do that. You don’t do that to any animal- be it human or non-human, especially non-human because it’s not healthy and a smart educated farmer knows this. Unhealthy livestock cut into their profits and the last thing they want is for anything to happen to their livestock until they are ready for it to happen. It all surround money and a farmer won’t get good veal (which is disgusting and repulsive on so many levels, but that’s another discussion) unless the calf has nurses from its mother for a while. Even so, the farmer can also get milk from the cow and still sell it while a calf is nursing. If the farmer does it right, he can turn a profit, but to yank the calf away as fast as its born doesn’t make for profits or veal. Even if there is no calf, if the cow is milked from the first calf on, she won’t painfully dry up and the fact it’s painful to dry up, to allow her to do so is inhumane. Also, milking the cow for human consumption does NOT kill calves. My grandfather milked Old Bossy for us to have milk on the table, so did my parents. My grandfather even made butter from that milk too and not a single calf died for it. To believe that it kills calves is utterly ignorant about milking a cow.

Simple question. Do you think those that thank the animal before they kill are morally superior to those that do not? What has this got anything to do with the vegan principle of reducing harm to animals as much as we possibly can?

 

Love to hear your answers my friend.

 

So lets turn to PETA. Does it hold what they say about the dairy industry?

lets see together - shall we?

THE DAIRY INDUSTRY

INTELLIGENCE AND EMOTION

COWS ARE COMPLEX, SENSITIVE BEINGS WHO DISPLAY AMAZING TRAITS OF INTELLIGENCE AND A WIDE RANGE OF EMOTIONS.

DAIRY COWS ACTIVELY MAINTAIN FRIENDSHIPS AND HAVE THEIR OWN UNIQUE PERSONALITIES.

 

EACH ONE OF THESE ANIMALS IS AN INDIVIDUAL HAVING THEIR OWN CONSCIOUS, SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE OF REALITY.

SOURCE: SCIENCE DIRECTNCE & EMOTIONBREEDING

ALTHOUGH THERE ARE FARMS WHO USE A BULL IN THE PEN FOR BREEDING, IT IS NOT AS RELIABLE AS THE MOST COMMON FORM OF BREEDING, WHICH IS EUPHEMISTICALLY KNOWN AS THE AI METHOD, OR ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION.

THIS PROCESS IS ESSENTIALLY THE SEXUAL VIOLATION OF MALE AND FEMALE ANIMALS IN ORDER TO PRODUCE CALVES TO MAKE UP THE DAIRY HERD.
THE ADVANTAGE OF AI IS THE SELECTION OF HIGH-QUALITY SPERM FOR BREEDING PURPOSES.

MALE BREEDING

SEMEN QUALITY IS CONSIDERED BEST WHEN THE BULLS ARE UNDER 3 YEARS OF AGE, PRIOR TO THEM REACHING MATURITY.

SPERM IS EXTRACTED FROM STUD BULLS EITHER VIA THE USE OF AN ARTIFICIAL VAGINA OR MORE COMMONLY VIA ELECTRO-EJACULATION WITH A RECTAL PROBE. THIS ‘PROBE’ IS INSERTED IN THE ANUS OF THE RESTRAINED MALE ANIMAL WHERE IT SENDS IN AN ELECTRICAL CURRENT, FORCING THE BULL TO EJACULATE.

ONCE THE SEMEN IS COLLECTED IT IS DISTRIBUTED TO DAIRY FARMS WHERE IT IS USED TO IMPREGNATE THE FEMALE ANIMALS.

SOURCE: INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF LIVESTOCK PRODUCTION

 

FEMALE BREEDING

 

WITH COWS BEING MAMMALS, LIKE HUMANS THEY HAVE TO HAVE GIVEN BIRTH IN ORDER TO PRODUCE MILK.

THE METHOD FOR FEMALES, WHICH GENERALLY DOES NOT LEGALLY REQUIRE A LICENSED VETERINARIAN, INVOLVES RESTRAINING THE COW IN A CATTLE CRUSH AND FORCING AN ARM INTO THE ANUS OF THE COW, TO HOLD THE CERVIX IN PLACE THROUGH THE LINING OF THE RECTUM AND THEN INVOLVES GUIDING A LONG ROD CALLED AN INSEMINATION GUN THROUGH THE VULVA, IN ORDER TO DEPOSIT THE SEMEN INTO THE UTERUS.

THIS IS VERY COMMON PRACTICE IN MOST DAIRIES WITH 89% OF DAIRY OPERATIONS IN THE US USING THIS METHOD.

THIS PROCEDURE STARTS WHEN A COW IS AT BREEDING AGE WHICH BEGINS AT AROUND 18 MONTHS TO 2 YEARS OLD.

THESE BREEDING PRACTICES ARE CONSISTENT IN ALMOST ALL WORLD WIDE DAIRY FARMS

 

COWS, LIKE HUMANS, HAVE A 9 MONTH PREGNANCY.

DAIRY COWS ARE IMPREGNATED ANNUALLY TO ENSURE MILK PRODUCTION REMAINS CONSISTENT, UNTIL THEY ARE WORN OUT AND PRODUCTIVITY DROPS.

IN THE DAIRY INDUSTRY COWS GENERALLY HAVE 3.6 LACTATION CYCLES, WITH THE AVERAGE AGE AT FIRST CALVING BEING 33 MONTHS IN THE UK, WITH A 400 DAY INTERVAL BETWEEN SUBSEQUENT CALVINGS.

 

SOURCE: AHDB CHAWG GB CATTLE HEALTH AND WELFARE

 

DAIRY COWS HAVE BEEN MODIFIED TO PRODUCE UP TO 10 TIMES MORE MILK THAN THEY NATURALLY WOULD.

COWS ARE MILKED AT LEAST TWICE A DAY AND ARE HOOKED UP TO PAINFUL MILKING MACHINES WHICH SUCK MILK FROM THE UDDER ALONG WITH ANY FECES OR PUS PRESENT.

30% OF UK DAIRY COWS HAVE MASTITIS, A BACTERIAL INFECTION OF THE UDDER.

SOURCE: LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY FACTS PAGE

IN THE US THE FDA ALLOWS 750 MILLION SOMATIC PUS CELLS IN EVERY LITRE OF MILK.

SOURCE: VET WORLD
IN EUROPE, REGULATORS ALLOW 400 MILLION SOMATIC PUS CELLS PER LITRE.

SOURCE: VET WORLD

:
“IN AUSTRALIA THERE IS NO LIMIT ON HOW MANY SOMATIC PUS CELLS ARE ALLOWABLE IN MILK.”

 

DAIRY CALVES WORLDWIDE ARE ALMOST ALWAYS SEPARATED FROM THEIR MOTHERS SHORTLY AFTER BIRTH.

THIS IS DONE SO THAT CALVES CANNOT DRINK THE MILK MEANT FOR SALE, IN ORDER TO MAXIMISE DAIRY INDUSTRY PROFITS.

DAIRY COWS CAN RECOGNISE THEIR CALVES’ CALL (AND VICE VERSA) FROM JUST A DAY AFTER BIRTH.

SOURCE: RESPONSES OF DAIRY COWS AND CALVES TO EACH OTHER’S VOCALISATIONS AFTER EARLY SEPARATION

 

RESEARCH SHOWS LONGER COW–CALF CONTACT TYPICALLY HAS POSITIVE LONGER-TERM EFFECTS ON CALVES, PROMOTING MORE NORMAL SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR, REDUCING ABNORMAL BEHAVIOUR, AND SOMETIMES REDUCING RESPONSES TO STRESSORS.

SOURCE: A SYSTEMATIC REVIEW OF THE EFFECTS OF PROLONGED COW–CALF CONTACT ON BEHAVIOR, WELFARE, AND PRODUCTIVITY

 

THE SEPARATION OF MOTHERS FROM CALVES CAUSES AN EMOTIONAL PAIN SIMILAR TO A PHYSICAL ONE AND COWS AND THEIR CALVES HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO CRY OUT FOR EACH OTHER FOR DAYS AFTER THE TRAUMATIC SEPARATION.

SOURCE: THE EMOTIONAL LIVES OF DAIRY COWS

SOURCE: THE EMOTIONAL LIVES OF DAIRY COWS

SOURCE: LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY FACTS PAGE

CALF OUTCOMES

IN AUSTRALIA, MALE CALVES IN THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ARE EITHER REARED FOR THEIR FLESH, OR SENT TO A SLAUGHTERHOUSE AT A YOUNG AGE TO BE USED FOR VEAL OR OTHER PROCESSED MEAT PRODUCTS, OR ARE ALSO KILLED AT BIRTH.

CALVES IN AUSTRALIA CAN ONLY BE TRANSPORTED FOR SLAUGHTER IF THEY ARE OVER 5 DAYS OLD, FIT AND HEALTHY, AND THE ABATTOIR IS WITHIN 12 HOURS.
THE ALTERNATIVE IS KILLING THEM ON THE FARM.

THE RECOMMENDED METHODS OF KILLING ARE A GUNSHOT OR CAPTIVE BOLT TO THE HEAD. IN THE AUSTRALIAN DAIRY GUIDELINES BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA IS ACCEPTED AS A ‘HUMANE’ METHOD OF KILLING FOR CALVES WHO ARE LESS THAN 24 HOURS OLD.

IN THE USA THERE ARE AROUND 450’000 VEAL CALVES, THE MAJORITY OF WHOM COME FROM THE DAIRY INDUSTRY.

SHOCKINGLY 15% OF US VEAL CALVES ARE KILLED AT UNDER 3 WEEKS OF AGE, BUT MOST ARE FED A MILK-REPLACER AND KILLED AT A DISTURBING 3 MONTHS OLD.

AROUND 10% OF THE US BEEF HERD ARE FORMER MALE DAIRY CALVES, USUALLY KILLED UNDER 14 MONTHS OF AGE.

IN CANADA, TYPICALLY YOUNG MALE CALVES ARE SENT TO AN AUCTION HOUSE TO BE SOLD TO ANOTHER FARM KNOWN AS A FEEDLOT OR GROWER.
THEY’LL SPEND ABOUT EIGHT MONTHS AT THE FEEDLOT BEFORE BEING SENT TO THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

SOURCE: LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY FACTS PAGE

IN AUSTRALIA, MALE CALVES IN THE DAIRY INDUSTRY ARE EITHER REARED FOR THEIR FLESH, OR SENT TO A SLAUGHTERHOUSE AT A YOUNG AGE TO BE USED FOR VEAL OR OTHER PROCESSED MEAT PRODUCTS, OR ARE ALSO KILLED AT BIRTH.

SOURCE: What Happens To Male Calves? | Bobby Calf Care - Dairy Australia

CALVES IN AUSTRALIA CAN ONLY BE TRANSPORTED FOR SLAUGHTER IF THEY ARE OVER 5 DAYS OLD, FIT AND HEALTHY, AND THE ABATTOIR IS WITHIN 12 HOURS.

SOURCE: DAIRY AUSTRALIA CARING FOR BOBBY CALVES

THE ALTERNATIVE IS KILLING THEM ON THE FARM.

 

THE RECOMMENDED METHODS OF KILLING ARE A GUNSHOT OR CAPTIVE BOLT TO THE HEAD. IN THE AUSTRALIAN DAIRY GUIDELINES BLUNT FORCE TRAUMA IS ACCEPTED AS A ‘HUMANE’ METHOD OF KILLING FOR CALVES WHO ARE LESS THAN 24 HOURS OLD.

​SOURCE: DAIRY AUSTRALIA CARING FOR BOBBY CALVES

IN THE USA THERE ARE AROUND 450’000 VEAL CALVES, THE MAJORITY OF WHOM COME FROM THE DAIRY INDUSTRY.

SOURCE: CIWF ABOUT CALVES REARED FOR VEAL

SHOCKINGLY 15% OF US VEAL CALVES ARE KILLED AT UNDER 3 WEEKS OF AGE, BUT MOST ARE FED A MILK-REPLACER AND KILLED AT A DISTURBING 3 MONTHS OLD.

SOURCE: USDA VEAL FROM FARM TO TABLE

AROUND 10% OF THE US BEEF HERD ARE FORMER MALE DAIRY CALVES, USUALLY KILLED UNDER 14 MONTHS OF AGE.

SOURCE: DAIRY HERD MANAGEMENT

IN CANADA, TYPICALLY YOUNG MALE CALVES ARE SENT TO AN AUCTION HOUSE TO BE SOLD TO ANOTHER FARM KNOWN AS A FEEDLOT OR GROWER.
THEY’LL SPEND ABOUT EIGHT MONTHS AT THE FEEDLOT BEFORE BEING SENT TO THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

AROUND 223 THOUSAND VEAL CALVES WERE SLAUGHTERED IN CANADIAN FEDERALLY INSPECTED ESTABLISHMENTS IN 2012, ALMOST ALL OF THEM BORN TO DAIRY COWS. HOWEVER, NEW ANIMAL WELFARE RULES WHICH PREVENT CALVES BEING TRANSPORTED FOR MORE THAN 12 HOURS WITHOUT FOOD, WATER AND REST, MEAN THAT MANY DAIRY FARMERS BELIEVE IT WILL NOW BE MORE ECONOMICAL TO JUST KILL MALE CALVES AT BIRTH.

SOURCE: CMC FACT SHEET

 

IN THE EU, THERE ARE AROUND 6 MILLION VEAL CALVES AND THERE IS A VARIATION IN MALE CALF OUTCOMES ACROSS THE COUNTRIES. BUT ONE THING IS FOR SURE, THEY WILL ALL BE EXECUTED SOONER OR LATER.

MUTILATIONS

IN THE UK CALVES UNDER 2 MONTHS OLD CAN BE CASTRATED WITHOUT ANAESTHETIC.

SOURCE: DEFRA

THE THREE MAIN METHODS OF CASTRATION INCLUDE:

​SOURCE: NADIS

BLOODLESS CASTRATION, USING A DEVICE SUCH AS A RITCHEY NIPPER OR BURDIZZO. THESE ARE USED TO CRUSH THE TUBE LEADING FROM THE TESTICLES TO THE PENIS AND THE SURROUNDING VESSELS, WHICH LEADS TO LOSS OF BLOOD SUPPLY TO THE TESTES.

ANOTHER METHOD IS SURGICAL CASTRATION, WHERE THE SCROTUM IS CUT OPEN TO REVEAL THE TESTES, WHICH ARE THEN SLICED OFF OR TORN OUT

AND FINALLY THE RUBBER RING METHOD, THIS CUTS OFF THE BLOOD SUPPLY TO THE TESTES AND SCROTUM, WHICH CAUSE THEM TO DRY UP AND DROP OFF.

 

THE INDUSTRY CAN USE A RUBBER RING OR OTHER DEVICES WHICH RESTRICT BLOOD FLOW TO THE SCROTUM, WITHOUT ANAESTHETIC WITHIN THE FIRST WEEK OF LIFE.

SOURCE: DEFRA

IN AUSTRALIA ACCORDING TO THE DAIRY WELFARE STANDARDS & GUIDELINES CALVES LESS THAN 6 MONTHS OLD CAN BE CASTRATED WITHOUT PAIN RELIEF.

SOURCE: AUSTRALIAN ANIMAL WELFARE STANDARDS & GUIDELINES

GUIDELINES IN THE USA SUGGEST DISBUDDING OR DEHORNING SHOULD BE PERFORMED BY 8 WEEKS OF AGE. DEHORNING IS CONSIDERED A MORE PAINFUL PROCEDURE WITH A LONGER HEALING TIME. CALVES ARE USUALLY RESTRAINED FOR THIS PROCEDURE.

SOURCE: AABP DEHORNING GUIDELINES.

IN THE EU DESTRUCTION OF THE HORN PRODUCING AREA OF CALVES FOUR WEEKS OF AGE IS PERMITTED BY CHEMICAL OR HEAT CAUTERISATION. NO ANAESTHETIC IS REQUIRED.

SOURCE: COE RECOMMENDATION CONCERNING CATTLE

DISBUDDING OR DEHORNING IS THE REMOVAL OF THE HORNS OF DAIRY CATTLE, VIA HEAT CAUTERISATION, CHEMICAL CAUTERISATION OR REMOVAL OF HORNS WITH VARIOUS CUTTING TOOLS. IT IS CLAIMED BY THE INDUSTRY TO REDUCE THE RISK OF INJURY TO OTHER CATTLE AND WORKERS, AND DURING TRANSPORTATION TO SLAUGHTER FACILITIES, IS CLAIMED TO REDUCE THE BRUISING OF CARCASSES MEANT FOR SALE.

ALL METHODS OF DISBUDDING AND DEHORNING ARE USED IN MOST COUNTRIES WORLDWIDE AND CAUSE SERIOUS PAIN AND DISTRESS, EVEN WHEN PAIN RELIEF IS USED.

HOUSING

IN ALMOST ALL CATTLE FARMS IN THE UK COWS ARE KEPT IN HOUSING FOR AT LEAST SOME OF THE YEAR OR ARE RAISED IN INTENSIVE FARMS. AROUND 10% OF DAIRY COWS DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO PASTURE AND MANY ARE DENIED ACCESS TO THE OUTDOORS FOR THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.

SOURCE: AHDB CHAWG GB CATTLE HEALTH & WELFARE

IN THE USA STANDARD ROOM AT FEEDING TROUGHS IS 24 INCHES PER COW, WHILE COWS NATURALLY PREFER TO SPACE THEMSELVES 12FT APART.

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR STALL DIMENSIONS FOR A 1200-1500LB LACTATING COW ARE 45-48 INCHES WIDE AND 8-8.5 FEET LONG, DESIGNED TO PREVENT THEM TURNING AROUND. IN THE US 40% OF LACTATING COWS HAVE NO ACCESS TO PASTURE.

​SOURCE: DAIRY HERD HEALTH AND MANAGEMENT

SOURCE: UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA EXTENSION

SOURCE: USDA

 

PERSISTENT LAMENESS IS AN ISSUE DUE TO POOR QUALITY FLOORING AND TRACKS, AND POORLY DESIGNED CUBICLES.

SOURCE: DEVELOPMENT OF A LAMENESS CONTROL PROGRAMME FOR DAIRY HEIFERS

SOURCE: AHDB LAMENESS IN DAIRY COWS

 

OVER 50% OF DAIRY COWS SUFFER FROM CRIPPLING LAMENESS AND SOME COWS ARE FORCED TO WEAR CHAINS CALLED HOBBLES FOR MONTHS AT A TIME TO LIMIT MOVEMENT.

SOURCE: LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY FACTS PAGE

TRANSPORT

IN THE US THE TRANSPORT OF CATTLE TO SLAUGHTER IS LARGELY UNREGULATED AND STRESSFUL. STRICTER RULES ON TRANSPORT APPLY IN OTHER COUNTRIES LIKE THE EU AND CANADA BUT ARE STILL POOR. FOR EXAMPLE, THE EU ONLY REQUIRES THAT COWS ARE FED AND WATERED ONCE IN A 24 HOUR PERIOD. IN CANADA COWS ARE TRANSPORTED EXTREMELY LONG DISTANCES TO SLAUGHTER MOST AT AROUND 280KM

SOURCE: CULLING DECISIONS & DAIRY CATTLE WELFARE DURING TRANSPORT TO SLAUGHTER IN THE US

SOURCE: TRANSPORTATION OF CATTLE

SOURCE: COE TRANSPORT OF CATTLE

SOURCE: THE WELFARE OF CULL DAIRY COWS FROM FARM TO SLAUGHTER

 

 

SLAUGHTER

DAIRY COWS WHO ARE NO LONGER PROFITABLE ARE SENT TO SLAUGHTER BECAUSE OF LOWER MILK YIELD DUE TO AGE, INFERTILITY OR MASTITIS.

THE SALE OF THEIR FLESH HELPS SUBSIDISE DAIRY FARMS.

MANY OF THESE COWS ARE TOO EMACIATED, INADEQUATELY MUSCLED OR HAVE HEALTH PROBLEMS, SO MOST OF THEIR FLESH GOES TO PROCESSED BEEF PRODUCTS LIKE BURGERS.

​SOURCE: DAIRY CATTLE ILLINOIS LIVESTOCK TRAIL

DAIRY COWS ARE GENERALLY SENT TO BE SLAUGHTERED AFTER AROUND 4 - 6 YEARS, BUT THEIR NATURAL LIFESPAN IS AROUND 25 YEARS.

​SOURCE: CHAWG GB CATTLE HEALTH & WELFARE

IN THE UK 25% DAIRY COWS ARE KILLED ANNUALLY AND AROUND 50% OF UK BEEF COMES FROM THE EXHAUSTED BODIES OF SPENT DAIRY COWS.

​SOURCE: AGRILAND

ANOTHER SHOCKING FACT IS THAT AROUND 150,000 DAIRY COWS ARE SLAUGHTERED WHILST STILL PREGNANT IN THE UK EACH YEAR.

SOURCE: VIVA

THE MOST COMMON METHOD FOR SLAUGHTER IS VIA CAPTIVE BOLT GUN WHICH SHOOTS A ROD INTO THE SKULL AND DESTROYS THE BRAIN. THEN THE THROAT IS SLASHED OPEN TO BLEED THEM OUT.

IT IS ESTIMATED THAT BETWEEN 5 - 10% OF CATTLE ARE NOT STUNNED EFFECTIVELY AND WILL HAVE TO ENDURE THE TERRIFYING EXPERIENCE OF EITHER BEING SHOT REPEATEDLY IN THE HEAD, BEING HUNG UP BY THE LEG, WHICH OFTEN DISLOCATES THE HIP BONE UNDER THE ANIMAL’S IMMENSE WEIGHT AND THEN HAVING THEIR THROAT CUT AND BLOOD DRAINED WHILST FULLY CONSCIOUS.

​SOURCE: LAND OF HOPE AND GLORY FACTS PAGE

IN THE USA AROUND 1/3 OF DAIRY COWS ARE REMOVED FROM DAIRY HERDS EACH YEAR, THE MAJORITY OF WHOM ARE CULLED.

SOURCE: CULLING DECISIONS & DAIRY CATTLE WELFARE DURING TRANSPORT TO SLAUGHTER IN THE US

IN CANADA 250’000 DAIRY COWS ARE MURDERED ANNUALLY

SOURCE: DAIRYPRODUCER

HEALTH

PLANT SOURCES OF PROTEIN ARE ASSOCIATED WITH BETTER HEALTH OUTCOMES OVERALL COMPARED TO DAIRY SOURCES OF PROTEIN.

 

IN FACT THIS PROSPECTIVE COHORT STUDY WHICH INCLUDED OVER 130 THOUSAND PARTICIPANTS FROM THE NURSES’ HEALTH STUDY, PUBLISHED IN THE JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION FOUND THAT:

SOURCE: ASSOCIATION OF ANIMAL & PLANT PROTEIN INTAKE WITH ALL-CAUSE & CAUSE-SPECIFIC MORTALITY

HIGH ANIMAL PROTEIN INTAKE (INCLUDING FROM DAIRY SPECIFICALLY) WAS POSITIVELY ASSOCIATED WITH CARDIOVASCULAR MORTALITY YET HIGH PLANT PROTEIN INTAKE WAS INVERSELY ASSOCIATED WITH ALL-CAUSE AND CARDIOVASCULAR MORTALITY. SO IN THIS STUDY THE SUBSTITUTION OF PLANT PROTEIN FOR ANIMAL PROTEIN INCLUDING DAIRY, WAS ASSOCIATED WITH LOWER MORTALITY

ENVIRONMENT

A HUGE STUDY CONDUCTED AT OXFORD UNIVERSITY WHICH LOOKED AT ALMOST 40 THOUSAND FARMS IN 119 COUNTRIES SHOWED THAT MEAT AND DAIRY USES A STAGGERING 83% OF FARMLAND AND PRODUCES 60% OF AGRICULTURE’S GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS, YET PROVIDES JUST 18% OF CALORIES AND 37% OF PROTEIN.

SOURCE: REDUCING FOOD’S ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS THROUGH PRODUCERS & CONSUMERS

 

THE RESEARCH SHOWED THAT WITHOUT MEAT AND DAIRY CONSUMPTION, GLOBAL FARMLAND USE COULD BE REDUCED BY MORE THAN 75% AND STILL FEED THE WORLD.

 

JOSEPH POORE WHO LED THE RESEARCH CONCLUDED FROM THE STUDY THAT “A VEGAN DIET IS PROBABLY THE SINGLE BIGGEST WAY TO REDUCE YOUR IMPACT ON PLANET EARTH, NOT JUST GREENHOUSE GASES, BUT GLOBAL ACIDIFICATION, EUTROPHICATION, LAND USE

 

 

 

Simple question. Do you think those that thank the animal before they kill are morally superior to those that do not?
Of course it is a loaded question because there are many dimensions of morality. But you appear to be another "Black or White" kind of person that needs a simple answer that covers all aspects so you can pick your arguments out of the exceptions.

Yes, I think those who thank an animal for its sacrifice before they kill it for resources they need (food, clothing, shelter, tools, etc) are morally superior than those who do not thank the animal before they kill it for sport.

Now don’t change the question or my answer.

Do you think vegans are morally superior to those that consume animal products?

 

 

 

@sabolina First off, stop screaming. Secondly, let’s NOT return to PETA, which is propaganda and pseudoscience with a cult mentality. I’ve been telling you that all along, but you refuse to listen. You haven’t read a thing I’ve said or linked to, so I see no reason to read any of your pseudoscience and propaganda, which has very little truth to it. You have fallen for a cult.

@mrmhead

Simple question. Do you think those that thank the animal before they kill are morally superior to those that do not?

Of course it is a loaded question because there are many dimensions of morality. But you appear to be another “Black or White” kind of person that needs a simple answer that covers all aspects so you can pick your arguments out of the exceptions.

Yes, I think those who thank an animal for its sacrifice before they kill it for resources they need (food, clothing, shelter, tools, etc) are morally superior than those who do not thank the animal before they kill it for sport.

Now don’t change the question or my answer.

Do you think vegans are morally superior to those that consume animal products?

I know you didn’t ask that first question nor did you ask your question of me (you asked @sabolina), but I didn’t know how else to show what I was responding to and why. That said, of course it is a loaded question @sabolina has shown that not only does she not only not understand N.A. culture, but she’ll twist it in an effort to make them the bad guys, without caring about the culture and practice. She also cannot see that the people she is talking about are the worst of farmers and that not all farmers are the way she mistakenly believe ALL farmers are. I gave her a good example of humane farming and she starts screaming B.S. that only points out the worst of farmers. No matter how I answer that, with my personal views or N.A. cultural views, she’ll twist it into B.S. because she’s brainwashed by a cult.

I’ll be willing to answer your question, even though you didn’t actually ask it of me- I do not think vegans are morally superior nor do I think N.A. are morally superior, but N.A. do have the knowledge, in which to live in harmony with nature. I do believe PETA is a cult up there with Scientology though. They sound a LOT like Scientologist. Of course, none of that relates to my personal reasons for being a vegetarian and I do not think I am superior to anyone else because I am a vegetarian. I do think, for my age, being a lifelong vegetarian has kept me healthier than most people in their 50s. I also do not like extremism or extremists, because they harm others (human and non-human). ALF, ELF, PETA (assist by financially supporting ALF) and other extremists bomb or set fire to buildings that have non-human animals and human animals in them, instead of using legal means to change things or negotiate to take animals to a sanctuary. Such groups break laws instead of use the law to achieve their means, doing more harm than good. Jane Goodall didn’t pay ALF or another vigilante group to release caged chimps being experimented on, so she could put them in a sanctuary. She did it legally. I admire animal welfare activists like Jane Goodall, but I loathe groups like ALF and PETA. Jane Goodall isn’t a cult. She is an educator and does things respectfully and legally to achieve a humane life for chimps. Betty White is another animal welfare activist who doesn’t support extremists and I admire her too. There are others who I admire and throw my support behind who are not extremist cult like groups like PETA. PETA spews so much misinformation and propaganda. It’s nothing but extremism, pseudoscience, and propaganda.

Simple question. Do you think those that thank the animal before they kill are morally superior to those that do not?
Not necessarily. But the ritual practice of returning the first Salmon catch back to the river by all coastal (Indian) fishermen, insures that at least one Salmon will spawn. A true and successful strategy for preservation of the species.

@mriana

It’s an open forum. I figure anyone can jump in and answer any question. Which is why I jumped in on this to answer sabolina’s question. To answer the question on my own terms.

I could set a trap too: “Do you think killing is bad?” YES NO

Please Choose ?

(and whichever you choose, I can start an argument)

@mrmhead

It’s an open forum. I figure anyone can jump in and answer any question. Which is why I jumped in on this to answer sabolina’s question. To answer the question on my own terms.

Indeed it is and glad you did jump into the conversation.

I could set a trap too: “Do you think killing is bad?” [ ] YES [ ] NO

Please Choose ?

(and whichever you choose, I can start an argument)

That is a trap, but not new. In the majority of cases, killing is bad, BUT define killing… the death sentence? yes, because it makes us just like the person who committed the crime in which to receive corporal punishment and of course the person with the death sentence will learn nothing because he’ll be dead. If you have a pet with cancer and all feasible options have been tried with the last resort being euthanasia, no. Self-defense? Borderline. Killing other animals for food? Yes (and I’m sure you can argue this and I’ve heard them all and I can argue back). abortion? If you believe it’s murder that is, I don’t see it as either. It just depends on what the woman wants to do being it’s her body and all. The list goes on and on, but most times the answer would be yes- for me at least. I’ve pondered many scenarios, maybe not all, but many.

My friend mriana wants to play the childish game and turn this into something that it is not with a PETA takedown when the sole point of this discussion is the std legal practices of rape torture and slaughter within the dairy and the mass slaughter in the egg industry. All the data and sources provided to show the systemic abuse of thaw animals is just hand waved away with her obscure recollection of a farm life experience in her youth . No data is provided to quantify her claim that not all farmers conduct such practice. A reality check to your local supermarket / butcher would help here.
And then she goes on to make the statement that the killing of animals for food is bad. Not wrong. Just bad. As a self declared vegetarian, I find this to be rather extraordinary allows necessity as a defence for animal abuse and is not an absolute position on animal rights for today’s world.

 

thank you

@sabolina

My friend mriana wants to play the childish game and turn this into something that it is not with a PETA takedown when the sole point of this discussion is the std legal practices of rape torture and slaughter within the dairy and the mass slaughter in the egg industry.

My dear, I’m not the one who’s being childish and embellishing on reality. PETA is not an honest way of talking about the farming industry because of their propaganda and pseudoscience. It is not a reliable source. No one is raping cattle. For one thing, a farmer isn’t tall enough to get his penis in the cow.

No data is provided to quantify her claim that not all farmers conduct such practice. A reality check to your local supermarket / butcher would help here.

I gave you a link that shows not all farmers are abusive and inhumane, but you apparently don’t want to read it. BTW, I work in a supermarket and I’ve also recent worked at Hellmart too. There is no evidence of what you say there. However, there is this crazy thing of vegetarian fed chickens. PLEASE! Those guys are pulling worms out of the ground and eating them, so that’s just as false as your overblown PETA propaganda.

And then she goes on to make the statement that the killing of animals for food is bad. Not wrong. Just bad. As a self declared vegetarian, I find this to be rather extraordinary allows necessity as a defence for animal abuse and is not an absolute position on animal rights for today’s world.

And you’re a vigilante. Why don’t you try taking a few pages out of Jane Goodall’s book and meet the people where they are, instead of feeding lies and BS, as well as acting like a crazy ape?

Here you go: 60 Years Later, Jane Goodall Continues Fight for Chimpanzees and the Planet

Jane worked with oil companies to make a change, not against them and she certainly didn’t go around setting the companies on fire, even though they were destroying the Chimpanzees habitat. Take a page out of her book.

@346267

 

"No one is raping cattle. For one thing, a farmer isn’t tall enough to get his penis in the cow.

 

Mriana the Moderator has now sunk to making rape jokes. I wonder what the CFI hierarchy would think of such behaviour.

 

So she says a link has been provided that counters all the points raised against animal agriculture

 

 

 

In 346197 she offers this for “humane farming”-

 

 

Home

 

I open this site and it takes me to a Farmers 4 Animal Welfare facebook site. Its mentions nothing about humane practices within the industry.

 

So I click on the Home link and find topics such as myth that beef causes cancer, a gallery, farming through diversity which entails photography, tourism and stays… ha!) and farmers blogs telling us how nice they are. There is a section of animal welfare. Let’s check it out. It opens up with THE TRUTH three categories’ of welfare - mulesing, branding and dehorning. Nothing on forced pregnancies, separating families, conditions of shelter and no mention of slaughter.

 

then there is a section on 5 freedoms centred around animals having the freedom to “stand up, lie down, turn around, groom themselves and stretch their limbs”. Comments on the right to not be enslaved and tortured is nowhere to be seen.

 

 

 

Mriana, if you want to be taken seriously and respected, keep your disgusting dirty jokes to yourself and stop with the whitewashing of animal agriculture with links that promote the industry and do not in any form address the issues raised in my posts.

 

Start a new post on PETA and Jane Goodall if that’s your go to grievance but don’t sabotage this discussion with your nonsense chatter.

 

 

@sabolina It’s not a joke. You started it by suggesting farmers rape cows. I just brought you back to reality because it’s not possible.

Start a new post on PETA and Jane Goodall if that’s your go to grievance but don’t sabotage this discussion with your nonsense chatter.

It’s not nonsense chatter. Your source is nonsense and nothing more than propaganda. Jane Goodall is not. Now I think we are done here, because you are not the moderator and I’m tired of this push, like a religion, of propaganda and pseudoscience.

No, but the ritual of throwing the first Salmon catch back into the river is a moral act and insures that at least one Salmon will return to its spawning ground and perpetuate the species.

It is an act of conservation.